Doctor Who Season 2 Kicks Off with Robot Shenanigans!

Garry: Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to the big Blue Box podcast. My name's Garry.

Adam: My name's Adam.

Garry: And welcome back this is episode 420.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Welcome back, Who fans, for another episode. We hope you have had a cracking few weeks since the last episode. We hope you've kept safe and well and they've all managed to do something. Doctor Who. I won that. That's only because I rolled it into one kind of stupid word there.

Adam: Yeah, you and you and your cheating tactics.

Garry: You and your. Yeah, you and your bloody.

Adam: You've been practicing that. I know.

Garry: We were saying before we recorded, we have to get our heads back into Doctor Who mode. Don't know if you know, listener, but we did a. We did a Blake's 7 podcast over the last couple of months. Little shameless plug.

Adam: Yes.

Garry: Come check it out. It's called Federation Strike the journey through Blake's 7. You can find it on all the podcast apps. We'll stick a link in the show note as well, but if you've not heard about it or whatever, we've been on the socials with it as well. All the links will be in all that stuff. Be in the show notes, but it's very, very cool. And again, those of you that don't know, Adam is a lifelong Blake's 7 fan. He's been bugging me for years to do a podcast about Blake's 7 and we finally. We finally did it. Now that the Blu Ray sets have started to roll for those. For that show and I fell in love with that show, mate, it's been brilliant. So if you want to get my views as a newcomer to that and Adam's views, re watching it for the millionth time as a. As a lifelong fan, then check it out. It's a good one that.

Adam: Yeah, we've had a great time reviewing that. I've loved doing the Blake's 7 pod.

Garry: It's been very cool. So we are back in Doctor Who mode now that season two is upon us with Ncuti's new stuff, new companion and all that jazz. We'll get onto that in a second, but very quickly, dude, because I know you. We've had a few messages on socials already. When are we going to hear your thoughts on it? When we're going to get your review? We'll get to that in just a second. But Adam and I haven't caught up in a. In a. In a minute. So as Adam's in the US at the moment on different time zones and all that stuff. So, dude, how have you been since we last spoke? How's things out in the U.S. yeah.

Adam: Yeah, I'm having a great time. I'm back out in Texas for a couple of months and yeah, we're on different time zones which suits me better because I'm so bad at getting up in the mornings normally when we record I'm all sleepy eyed and I'm always late and just Garry's like, oh, where is he? And now it's like it's only two. It's 2pm my time, 7pm no, it's 1pm my time,7pm your time and I'm all fresh as a daisy, mate. I'm all up and finished, full of energy and it suits me much better. But for you, you're probably tired, just had your dinner and ready to go to bed so I don't know. But yeah, otherwise mate, all good here. Thanks.

Garry: Yeah, good, good, good. Yeah, not tired yet. Not at that age yet where not quite there. 7pm has wiped me out and well, hopefully not. We'll see how this review of the episode goes. Might be tied at the end of it.

Adam: I am very much looking forward to hearing what you think of this episode, mate, because I think, yeah, this is one of those I can't gauge, you know, And I like it when we get an episode where I don't really know what you're going to think of it because sometimes I watch it. I think, yeah, Garry won't have liked that or Garry will have loved that one or whatever. This one could go either way. And I don't know if you have any inkling if I liked it or not.

Garry: I am also finding it difficult to gauge what your reaction is going to be to this one. I'll be honest with you.

Adam: Ah, good.

Garry: Yes. So okay, cool. We will kick off then with our review. Before we get into that, as always, make sure you are following or subscribing to the big Blue Box in your preferred podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss an episode when they land at the moment, they'll be weekly as we go through season two and as we're on a seasonal format with the Blue Bibb Box now, we'll finish our reviews and then we'll have a break. And then whenever the next thing comes along, we will review that which I believe is going to be the spin off hopefully this year and rinse and repeat. We'll come back with like bonus episodes and bits in between of course. But you're with us now for the next eight weeks as we go through season two. So if you hit The Follow or subscribe button. You get a notification in your podcast app when a new Big Blue Box episode lands. You can also listen online over at the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk and you can check out the reviews and articles from all the writing teams over there as well. And also, don't forget to remember to check out Adam's YouTube channel. It's the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: The Geeks Handbag. I was just working on a new vid before we started recording as well. I'm doing some stuff while I'm out here in the U.S. so check out my channel, the Geeks Handbag on YouTube. YouTube, good old YouTube.

Garry: Not tick tock. But he's on the other socials.

Adam: I did do one. I did my first Tick Tock in like months yesterday. Yeah, I felt like I should keep that going so my account don't get shut. Well, I nearly did out here in the US anyway, mate. Trump banned it for like five hours, I think, and then it came back. So, yeah, good old Tick Tock.

Garry: Oh dear. Yeah, so he's under the same name, the Geek's Handbag. Go and nag him about Dr. WHO or other geeky stuff. So, bud, let's crack straight on them what we got this week.

Adam: Yeah, so we're starting a brand new season and this episode, episode one is called the Robot Revolution.

Garry: Transmat initiated. Melinda, Belinda. Can someone tell me what the hell is going on? So what's your name?

Adam: Just a doctor.

Garry: All right then I'm called the Nurse Rebels. You will surrender. What have you done? I'm sorry. The Robot Revolution. It was released of course, very recently, 12 April 2025. It was had a runtime of roughly 43 minutes. Ish when you take off the titles and stuff. It was written by Russell T. Davis, directed by Peter Hoare and was overseen by Julie Gardner, Phil Collinson, Joel Collins, the usual people who are back on. Doctor Who stars Ncuti Gatwa, of course, as the fifteenth Doctor, new companion Belinda Varadu Sethu and about half a dozen supporting cast members on it whose names.

Adam: I'm not going to remember. Just listener. Just nothing. Some things never change.

Garry: Yeah, as always, we'll go through and get that all wrong, of course. But the synopsis for this one is. When robots from outer space kidnap nurse Belinda Chandra, the Doctor embarks on an epic intergalactic quest to get his new friend back home to Earth. So short and sweet there. And as usual, we will go over to you, my good buddy, what your thoughts out the gate for this season two kickoff episode.

Adam: Well, mate, I must admit I, I had to put a bit of baggage aside before I watched this. I wasn't really in the mood, to be honest. I've seen the trailers and I thought they looked exciting, but I wasn't feeling that buzz that I normally get of a new series of Doctor Who. So I plonked it on. Obviously I'm over in the US so it's Disney plus. I plonked it on when I got in on Saturday night. And yeah, what I'm basically trying to say is my expectations were very low. I think I'm still scarred by space babies, to be absolutely honest with you, because I what I mean by that and I kind of being serious about it, I felt so in dejected after watching space babies. I was so deflated. But you know, that I didn't want that feeling again. And knowing that this series was filmed sort of back to back with season one, I thought, oh God, it's not going to be another. You know, I'd seen like a few preview clips. It's not going to be another space babies, is it really? So silly and awful and I just didn't want that feeling, mate. So I sort of had to kind of put all that to one side before I was ready to watch this. I thought there's no point going into it with a negative attitude. You've got to just clear your mind, right? So I come in, sit down me over half. I said, come on then, let's, let's get Doctor Who on. Let's see, see what it's like. And I wouldn't say I loved it, but I did get to the end of it and say, yeah, I kind of shrugged when, yeah, that was okay. And I know that's a bit on the fence, but I'm just almost relieved that I didn't have that space babies feeling and that I didn't not enjoy it, if you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong, there are lots there. I have lots of issues with it as an episode, so I'm sorry to be a bit on the fence and say it was okay, but that's exactly how I feel about it. It fin we had a couple of little smiles throughout it. I thought it was a sort of almost typical RTD opening episode. It was fluffy with a very paper thin story. It had some fun moments, some good ro, you know, some fun robots. It was, it looked great production wise, you know, and it was just an introduction really to the new companion, which I think it did a fairly good job doing so. Yeah, I know it's not exactly the. The sort of most critical thing to say, you know, but I'm just saying it was okay. I thought I enjoyed it for the most part, but I do have issues with it and there is one thing I really, really didn't like, which I will get to. And I know a lot of people have picked up on this, so you probably know what I'm gonna say. But overall, mate, I'm just gonna sum up by saying I mostly enjoyed it. I didn't think it was great, but I didn't think it was bad. It's very much a mid episode for me and as a season opener I would have liked for more but because my expectations were low, it kind of just sat where I thought it was going to sit and at least it didn't sink any lower. So it was okay. It was just fun. I thought for the most part it was okay. It was okay. I know I don't really. I wish I could think of a better way to sum up my feelings because that sounds so rubbish as a review, you know, you can't imagine that on the season two box set, can you? It was okay. The Geek's Handbag, you know, it just. But that's exactly how I feel about it. So I'm just sort of saying it how it is, mate. It was okay.

Garry: Cool. Gotcha.

Adam: Over to you. What do you think of it?

Garry: Yeah, I'm. I'm along the same. Same kind of lines as you on that one.

Adam: Okay.

Garry: On that. On the thought process, I think. As a season opener. Did it blow my socks off? No.

Adam: No.

Garry: Was it a great episode? No. Was it a bad episode? No, it was just an.

Adam: Okay, it's exactly where I am. Exactly where I am. Yeah.

Garry: And the reason why I say that is because it felt a little bit. And I've watched it twice now. I watched. When was. When was the 12th? It was on Saturday, wasn't it?

Adam: Saturday?

Garry: Yes. I just. Gone. So I watched it on iplayer, I think around lunchtime on Saturday. And. And then I watched it again. Me and. Me and wifey watched it a while ago, Mrs. Blue Box. We. We watched through it just before we. We started recording actually. So on the second time round, I would probably say I didn't mind it as much. I think it'd be wrong to say that I enjoyed it more than the first viewing. I think I just didn't mind it as much. There wasn't as much head scratching on that second one, of course. Because you, your mind has already, you know, decided that, yep, I get those bits and I get that bit. So you're concentrating a little bit more on the bits that you were confused around the first time. So, yeah, I think it was all right. It was all right. I think like you and a lot of WHO fans, we were kind of a bit burnt out with some of the repetitive stuff from season one. And what I mean by that is the, you know, shoot his doctor crying all the time and. Yeah, and all these sorts of. The quality of the writing and for some episodes and just that predictability of like. Unfortunately, I think for a lot of WHO fans, not all WHO fans, of course, but for, for some WHO fans, I think, and us are included in this. We kind of got to that point where it was like halfway through season one. It was like, yeah, we need to have a good episode here instead of thinking, well, coming off the back of last week, I can't wait to watch the next episode. I don't think we felt like that. I think it was just, you know, let's. Let's watch Doctor Who. Hopefully it will be good. Fingers crossed. It will be great. So I feel like this episode is kind of. It would have sat very nicely within season one. This could have been like, see episode four of season one. It didn't. It didn't have that big, epic opening feel that you would. I don't know, not that it needs to be sort of huge and epic in every sense of the word, but I didn't get that feeling like, wow, like, we're off in a slightly different direction. We're off in a different vibe here than season one. Season two is off with a bang. I didn't feel that. I just felt like it was an okay bit of a mid season episode.

Adam: Exactly, mate. And that's the thing. When I said I was slightly relieved. One of the things I've been worried about with this season is that I, in terms of recording reviews and the podcast is I was really worried that this season is gonna not hit the mark for me and I don't want to be coming on here every week and being negative or saying, I don't enjoy it. Now, unfortunately, that could still happen. But at least with the first episode, I thought, when I say relief, I thought, ah, good. Oh, at least I'll be able to go on and say, you know, I enjoyed that one for the most part. And, you know, because I worried about that. I think that's unfortunately where I am personally with Dr. At the minute is I. I Don't go into it with excitement because we've got new series almost. Well, I do, but I. It's sort of overshadowed, with a bit of sort of trepidation. You know, I go in thinking, oh, God, am I going to be moaning about it? And I don't want to be moaning about a show that I love. So that's what I meant when I said I had relief. Just quickly, bud, I like the fact you watched it with your partner because I always love to get like the. In brackets casual viewer, you know, perspective, because I watched it with my partner as well. And again, that can go two ways because when we watch space babies together, we don't watch Doctor together that much anymore, but it's nice when we do. And with Space Babies, I was cringing the whole time. This time we were sort of laughing and smiling at the same moment, which is quite nice because it enhances your viewing experience. So I was quite pleased that he was enjoying it as much as I was at the moments we enjoyed, if you know what I mean. So I don' I don't know. Did you get the same from. From Nat, your partner? Did she enjoy it? What. What sort of vibe did you get from her about it? Because I love to get the casual viewers opinion.

Garry: Yeah. So it's always like when I watch it with Nat, it's always. It's a good yardstick because she's the. She's the quintessential kind of enjoyed Doctor Who at its peak. And I'm. What I mean by that, it's like David Tennant some, you know, series three and four and the specials and stuff. That's her. That's her sort of go to, like, if you said to. If you, if you gave her a shelf with all the DVDs or Blu Rays from 2005 to now and said, right, pick a couple off the shelf that you really like. She would reach for David Tennant. Yeah, Series three and four, that sort of thing and everything else after that, she fell off very quickly, I would say. Yeah. As. As Matt Smith's era started to. She. She dropped off. She's not really. She likes Matt Smith in other things, but she's not too fond of him in Doctor Who. She sort of takes it or leave it. And then certainly 100 with Capaldi, she's gone. She's had enough of all that. Yeah. So. So she's a good yardstick, like you said, for sort of the casual fan. And I have to say, because I sat down, I said, right, I'm just Gonna, I'm just gonna quickly zip through this. I wasn't, I wasn't even planning to watch it from start to finish in completion. I was just going to just zip through some of the scenes that I wanted to recap on specifically. So I sat down, said, I'm just going to zip through this because I'm reviewing it. And I started watching it and she was hooked. Like, you know, she was. She started to, to, to watch it because I reached for the remote inside to fast forward it and she gave me that look like, what are you doing? You sort of go back and so I said, okay, we'll watch it. So she actually watched this one from start to finish. She commented on a few things. You know, she was, she was quite into it. So for the casual fan, from her point of view, I think she, I think she mostly enjoyed it. I don't think, I don't think she's itching like we are to watch the next episode. If she missed it on Saturday, she wouldn't really lose sleep over that. But she was reasonably engaged.

Adam: Yeah, that's the reason I asked, mate. Because casual, the reason I like to get casual viewers thoughts is because they don't go into it and analyze it like as Doctor Who fans do. So I just always find it interesting for someone that does just sit down and find themselves watching the episode, does it engage with them? You know, does it, does it still do that? You know, this is a 60 plus year old show. So that's why I always like to, to talk to other people that perhaps are not so, you know, looking at every sort of aspect of it, like us Doctor Who fans do, to just get an almost like clean slate. Like I said, put the baggage aside, opinion of the episode to see where, where it's hitting.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it's because we, we said this many times, you know, we will. What's the best way to put it? It's like a busman's holiday for us in a way because we're always watching it with like two sets of eyeballs.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You know, we've got that. It's a blessing and a curse in a way as well, because we're watching it, trying to enjoy it as a fan. But then at the same time, I don't know about you, but I always have this thing like, right, I must remember that because we talk about it on the review and I must remember that. So which is why, I think, which is why we've never done those like a Lot of other podcasters and YouTube channels. They will put a review out like, 10 minutes after the episode.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And there's nothing wrong with that, but from our point of view, it's it. It's it. Well, in my opinion, it's never a. A true representation of how you feel because, you know, you're coming off of just watching it and there's a little bit of a high because you've just watched it, and regardless of how you feel about it, whether you loved it or hated it or whatever, your emotions are sort of cranked up a little bit because you're just coming off the back of watching it. So we've always gone down the train of thought of, you just let the dust settle just a little bit. Sort of collect your thoughts, do you know what I mean? And. And reflect on it. And. And so. Which is why multiple viewings and getting points of view from other people that we live with and stuff is really important. So. So how did your other half take it then?

Adam: Yeah, that's what I mean. I. I was. I think that made me relax when I sort of heard little chuckles and, you know, moments, you know, like some of the. I mean, because some of the dialogue was pretty terrible in this, but some of that dialogue made him laugh and I thought, oh, you know, so it's. It's. That's what I mean. It appears if it was appealing to him, which it seemed to be, I thought, that's good. I like the fact he's enjoying it. And it made me enjoy it a bit more, I think, as I said, compared to Space Babies, where we're both sat there like, this is terrible. We both look at each other shaking our head. It was nice to sort of be, you know, sort of smiling and laughing at certain moments during the episode.

Garry: So, yeah, no reader, before we get on to any sort of little hiccups, perhaps in the episode, anything we weren't so fond of, I just want to rattle off a few things that I felt were very good. The first one, again, I don't know how it's possible, but they do this every single season. And that the visual quality of it, the cinematic feel and the visual effects, that seems to ramp up every season in very small increments since. Since shooty. Well, since probably. I mean, every. It's. I started to gauge with, like, the Eccleston and Tenant stuff, because that all looks very, very similar. But, you know, when you've jumped into Matt Smith's era, you can see that there's a little bit of a Jump up.

Adam: Absolutely.

Garry: You know, in. Yeah. In visual quality. And then the same thing happened very slightly, but you can see it sort of creeping up again into Capaldi. But you definitely saw it into Jodie's stuff.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And then now we're in this season, it's gone up again. And so some of the scenes, some of the. The visual qualities, it just amazing. Like you can tell that the cinematographers and the production people, all those. It's just so good. And so I. A visual treat for the eyes on this one. And I really like the visual style as well. I'm a bit of a. I really love that old sort of 50s sci fi stuff, you know, like.

Adam: Well, like Flash Gordon.

Garry: Flash Corner. Yes.

Adam: Not the film, the old TV show.

Garry: The old stuff. Yeah. So the set designers and some of the producers, they took inspiration from the film Forbidden Planets.

Adam: Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Garry: Yep. And also. And also this Island Earth, which is a very old, again, sci fi sort of thing from the 50s. And it also had, you know, like the yellow rocket ship that came and, and took Belinda off and, and the designer robots and stuff. It had a very, you know, Pixar's the Incredibles film.

Adam: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Garry: You know, had that really. Yeah. That sort of retro sci fi, 50s feel. So I love that part of it. Very, very cool. And I loved most of the performances. I think Verada Sethu is. I'm really enjoying her kind of. It's a nice change of pace. I have a companion that's not just swept up in the Doctor's sort of energy and stuff like that, you know, this is like the opposite to Rose, you know, it's. Rose was just desperate to travel with the Doctor and for more reason than one that we found, we find out a bit later. But she was like, you know, no questions, you know. Yeah. I mean, I'm in for the ride, you know, let's do it. So it's refreshing to have a companion. It's a bit more like Donna, stand up to the Doctor, not take his rubbish. You know, not just. Yeah. We'll come on to a scene where those two are like, you know, towards the end where it feels like it's going fairly chummy and it's pretty cool. But then she has a moment of realization and, yeah, just want to be taken home and stuff. So that was cool. We'll get onto her in a second. And also, really like the, the. The little. The little Polish robot. Polish, Polish, Polish, Polish, Yeah.

Adam: I know why you like that robot, because he sounds like a droid. From Star wars, doesn't he?

Garry: He does have it. He does, actually. I know you mention. Also, I also really liked the, the, the effect that, you know, when they had the two certificates and they sort of put them together in the same space. The Doctor warned her earlier that, you know, if you put them in the same place, atoms just say no and kaboom and stuff like that. There was a really cool effect when that happened.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Went off into a big sort of trippy thing. That was amazing. That was really well done. So, yeah, there was a few things I really did like about it and those things. But what about you, mate? Anything that stood out that you really enjoyed before we got onto anything that wasn't so good?

Adam: Well, yeah, I agree about the production. I thought as an episode it looked great, you know, I mean, it was quite CG heavy at times, but it looked very good. One thing that's particularly stood out to me was when, you know, the owl was revealed as the cyborg owl. Quite Iron Maiden, like, it's a bit like Eddie. I just thought the mask, you know, the prosthetics on his face were fantastic. You know, he looked really creepy and. Yeah. So production wise, I thought it looked really good, mate. And I know we'll talk about Belinda, so I'll wait till we get onto her, but yeah, I just thought overall it looked good. I, I also enjoyed the, the style of, you know, the design of the robots and spaceship, which actually surprises myself a little because I remember like in the Husband's A River Song saying how awful the UFO looked and I think they were going for that sort of retro look and it didn't work for me in that story. But I don't know, something about this suited the sort of world and the planet that they, you know, he created. So I, I thought it really suited the style of the episode and the sort of. I've heard people compare it to Sarah Janes and saying it was a bit goofy and a bit silly and I absolutely get why people are saying that. I think there is a big element of that to this episode, but for me it kind of, it did work. I thought it really suited the story. So, yeah, I just thought overall, production wise, it was good. Very good.

Garry: Yeah. That was a production designer, Phil Sims, who was working with Russell and, and said they, it would be cool to take inspiration from those old, really old sci fi. You say you can tell them I love them.

Adam: When you said you planet mate, I was like, yeah, absolutely, I can see that now. The old Forbidden Planet film. Yeah, Bang.

Garry: On. Yep. It's actually a good film. You know, the old Forbidden Planet film.

Adam: I've not watched it for years.

Garry: Yeah, it's bit cheesy, but it's. Yeah, it's good.

Adam: I don't want a bit of cheesy sci fi.

Garry: Yeah, you mentioned the. The. It was visual effects heavy. That was one thing that was apparent all the way through, other than the hospital stuff that they filmed at the beginning.

Adam: Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah.

Garry: You know, when the Doctor's chasing after her and can't quite find her, it's. Other than that, you can tell that pretty much everything else was in front of a green screen. It was very, very green screen heavy. Other than the TARDIS sets at the end and. Which is obviously a physical thing that used to be. Yeah, used to be up at Wolf Studios.

Adam: I think it still is. I think someone. I don't know. We just don't know.

Garry: I'm kidding. Yeah, but, yeah, it was. That was very green screeny. You could tell that pretty much every. Every scene for after that. After the bit where she gets taken up into the rocket up until the end when they're on the tardis. I think most of it was some kind of green screen stuff, but that's not a bad thing. But it just felt a little bit. Yeah, a little bit like a. You know, they were one step away from just. You might as well just animate Doctor Who.

Adam: I. I kind of get what you mean, mate, because there's someone who hate. I hate CGI when it's used a lot, especially in Marvel films, because to me, I think my brain's got so used to it that I'm just sat there thinking, it's not real, it's not, you know, so I'm not a big fan of heavy cgi, but it didn't bother me for some reason during this. I think it was well done for the most part. So, yeah. Yeah, I just got. Well, I remember, mate, as being as. We are both. We are both cat owners and we love our feline friends, because I'm bound to forget this later on. Did you nearly switch off when that cat got obliterated? Within the first five minutes, I was a bit shocked. I was like, what the heck? You know what that cat do.

Garry: Sad times, eh?

Adam: I know, because we both listeners, we both have our cats and they are like our best friends. We love cats, me and Garry, very much. Cat people. So, yeah, I was horrified by that. But, yeah, I didn't switch off, obviously.

Garry: No, no, it was. I think it Was the first fatality, wasn't it? The cat. The first one to bite the dust. Yeah.

Adam: It made me want to hit Russell T. Davies over the head of an umbrella. It's like, how dare you?

Garry: Very sad. Yeah, I'm sure that. Yeah, I'm sure. I think I saw somebody on Twitter say, of course they were joking, of course. But they put a screenshot of the exact moment when the cat sort of turned, was obliterated and they said something like, this is it the straw that's broke the camel's back. Not watching Doctor Who anymore.

Adam: I did think that about. I thought this could be it. This could be Garry switching off. That's the. Yeah, the final straw, Russ.

Garry: Yeah, no reader, story wise felt a little bit classic rtd, this one in terms of story. It was just a good old throw in some timey wimey stuff, if you know what I mean. You know, with the whole. The Doctor even says that, doesn't he? He says timey, why me? And. And Belinda's like, what am I, six? Those little biting comments, mate, they, they were very cool. And so I think it tries to play on. It tries to play on sort of old tropes from. From us, from Russell back in the day and because he repeats a few things that we've heard a few times before. Obviously the whole. It's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside and, and a.

Adam: Timey wimey and the long way round and all that.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of, you know, a little, a little gentle nudge, a little reminder that, you know, Russell's still the Russell of old in some respects. And so story wise. Yeah, a little bit timey wimey with the whole, you know, how did the certificate get there before they did? Yeah, you know, and it all comes down to this time fracture. Essentially. The Doctor and Belinda travel through a time fracture. They comically in the episode say, I think it was a schwup, you know, it schwooped, which is kind of cool. So that was, you know, a little bit seeing. But I think the twist, there's always a twist, always the end, isn't it? Always? I think the twist was the character of Alan back as the, you know, he had been brought to the planet, you know, long before they got there and, and has caused this revolution with the robots to, to. To be at war with the humans and all that stuff. So he's basically a bad egg is Alan, Alan Budd. And, and that leads on to a scene, mate, that I assume that you picked up on. Lots of people picked up on this with Alan's demise.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And the Doctor's big celebration of. Of his death, which is an interesting. Always interesting when they do this in Doctor Who, because you remember, we had it with, I'm sure, in Matt Smith's, you know, with. What's his name? Bradley.

Adam: Yeah. David Bradley's character.

Garry: Yeah.

Adam: Dinosaurs on a spaceship.

Garry: That's the one. Yeah. When he was reasonably okay with sending him to his death, didn't seem too bothered, even though he was a bad egg. Another one, of course. But this is always a thing when this happens where the Doctor is. Because we've been. We were so conditioned for the Doctor to be, for the most part, very compassionate, even in the face of someone being a bit of a baddie, always giving them a second chance or a chance to redeem. And in all that stuff with this, though, you know, Alan was done and then the Doctor's dancing around and cheering and. So what's your take on this dude?

Adam: Yeah, no, it's the bit I talked about earlier where I said, it's the one bit I didn't like. I know a lot of people have picked up on it, so it probably seems like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but I really. It was the fact he seemed to be. They both were sort of laughing and celebrating it that just thought. It just didn't sit right with me, mate. But I will admit, for half a second, you know, when the robot cleaned up the sperm, you know, when it cleaned up Alan, initially, for that second, me and my partner both laughed. He said, oh, God, there goes Alan. And we sort of chuckled. And then I stopped and thought about it because the Doctor then did a high kick. It was like, yes, and started laughing. And I. I kind of went from laughing at the scene to thinking, oh, no, that's actually. No, I don't think I like that. And I don't like the Doctor celebrating it because he may have been a baddie, but, yeah, he was kind of taken there and, you know, he wasn't. He wasn't really evil and horrible. Well, I suppose he was. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But I still thought it didn't justify a high kick and a yes queen from the Doctor. I don't know. It. Yeah, it just didn't sit right with me. I do agree with people who found that a bit undoctorish. It. I. I know we've had it a few times, similar sort of stuff. Like you just mentioned that about the David Bradley character. I Also think back to a scene with Matt smith, doctor, where Mr. Sweet. Remember Mr. Sweet, that little creature when he was bludgeoned to death and the Doctor just kind of didn't do anything about it? That annoyed me at the time and still does now. So, yeah, I'm never very happy when I see the Doctor, just. Not necessarily just letting people go to death, but actually laughing and celebrating about it. Yeah, I didn't like that bit, mate. I'm afraid it was probably the. The low point in the episode for me, in a pretty much mostly enjoyable episode. It just. Yeah, I'm not going to dwell on it, just. It just. Just a bit I didn't like.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, no, I see why. I see why people are not too keen on that bit. I've got two thoughts on it. The first one is, I think at this point, Alan was so far gone from his human state and his human form, they're not really celebrating the death or the destruction of a person at that point. You know, he's more sort of machine and an Android or whatever you want to call him at that point. So I think that's why they weren't too fast, you know, because if we rewind to the beginning of near the beginning, where the Doctor is talking to Belinda for the first time and they did this, that was what. This is one scene that I really loved, actually. It's really clever, where the Doctor had figured out that there was a fault with the. With the robots, that they couldn't hear every ninth word.

Adam: Yeah, yeah, I like that idea.

Garry: Yeah, really cool, that. And so in that scene there, when that leads up to the first kind of rebellion shootout with the robots and stuff, his reaction when Sasha55 gets killed, he's in pieces, you know, he's really not happy. And so I think that that's the Doctor obviously being very Doctor ish, that we know, you know, with that compassion and wanting to save everybody. So I think when you go to near the end, I think. I think Alan's just not viewed as a. As a person anymore. He's more machine and robot than anything. So maybe that sort of links into why they're not too. Too bothered. Obviously, the fact that he's a right beep, you know, probably played into it a little bit. But I get what you're saying and what other people saying is that even if that's the case, which is the Doctors are bit uncomfortable for him to be like that. And then the other thing is that I think they have to be quite careful with the writing here. Because for the most part it was all very sort of science fictiony fun adventure. Pew, pew, pew. You know, rebellion against robots and all that stuff. On paper it sounds wonderful, but the underlying sort of darkness, the episode is essentially Alan's character being, you know, this kind of incel. Controlling sort of character. And when we've had, you know, the, the TV show on Netflix recently, adolescence, which sort of gripped. Gripped everybody as being this amazing show. Very hard watch. But you know, is very much around that subject. I think it would be very. They have to be very careful with how they handle the. The end result for a character like that. So you. I don't think you could have like with the, the world's consciousness at the moment about the devastating effects of people like that and their influence in the world. I think you couldn't then have the Doctor trying his hardest to save somebody like that because then you would just have, you know, social media would just be flooded with like, you know, Doctor saves incel.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Monster kind of thing and all that stuff. So they have to be careful about that side of things. So I think revolving, sort of involving that scene and, and the Doctor's reaction stuff, I think it's just a bit more layered than he. You know, the Doctor's a bit of a dick for celebrating somebody being killed. I think there's just more to it.

Adam: Yeah, essentially.

Garry: Yeah. But yeah, I've seen it on Socials, dude. It's a lot of people have picked up on that one thing with the Doctor and Belinda having a good old, a good old laugh and stuff. And what rubs salt in the wound. Yeah. Is the little Polish robot that comes. And that's the end of improperly.

Adam: Yeah. It's like Gadget Gadget, isn't it? Same.

Garry: Oh, yeah.

Adam: It's another one of sort of Russell's little sort of tropes that's come in. In this one which. There are a few.

Garry: There are a few, yeah. Then the other, the other scene that I just want to pick up on, which I didn't think was bad. It was so terrible, but I just felt a little bit like, oh, here we go again. Why. Why do we do. Why do we do this Doctor Who? Because it's almost like one step forward, two steps back where we have this refreshing character in the companion of Belinda. Right?

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Where she's very strong minded and not a pushover and we. That's evident right from the get go. It's very cool. But then we have the Doctor saying, oh, I can't tell you. I can't tell you because, you know, he. There's that quote unquote, this mysterious. He. He told me that, you know, I would. I would bump into you, whatever. Yeah, but I have to be careful with timelines and stuff like that. As soon as he said that, I'm like, oh, here we go. Here we bloody go. Like, why do we have to. Yeah, why do we have to have this thing where the companion has to be either the most important thing in the universe or, you know, connected to this big plan in some way and all the rest of it? Why can't they just be them? Why can't that be enough anymore? Do you know what I mean?

Adam: Like, I do.

Garry: I don't mean. I don't mean to be a grumpy old sod, but we think back to the classic who days, you know, when the Doctor's kicking around with Sarah Jane and, and, and, or Dodo or Nissa Tegan, whoever. You know, they're not part of this massive important cog that the entire series revolves around and stuff. They're just there, like, being cool, you know, being with the Doctor and everything. And we don't have that anymore. The companion has to be this mega big, important thing, you know?

Adam: Yeah. I mean, I just hope it has a decent payoff, mate. I know exactly what you mean, because it's all. It's starting to feel a little bit tired, this whole sort of mystery companion thing again. But, yeah, and I guess I don't know if it's just that they feel they have to explain it because she was in another episode and I believe she was cast after Russell saw in Boom and thought she'd be a good companion. I think that's the way it went. It was never like the initial plan. So, yeah, it's like, oh, well, she was an episode, so I better explain it. And. But, you know, back in classic who, yeah, we used to have actors appear every other week. I mean, Jeffrey Palmer was in loads and, you know, we didn't. Question. Hang on. He looks like such and such from two seasons back. You know, we just went with it. I think they worry too much about the audience, you know, wanting an explanation, where, like you said, I think we just want them to get in the tardis, go on some adventures. We're not too bothered about that sort of thing. Well, maybe some people are, I don't know, but I agree with you. But I just hope there's a good, a good resolution to this whole Mundy Flynn and, you know, Belinda Chandra.

Garry: Yeah.

Adam: Question. Yeah.

Garry: What do you think to a new companion and to Varard. Do you think she's. Think she's off to a good start?

Adam: I. I like. I agree with you. I like the fact it's something a bit different. I mean, I do get like that strong Donna vibes of she's not gonna, you know, she's gonna hold her own. Right. So, yes, I. My initial impressions are. I think I like her. My court. The court is still a little bit out with me, mate, because she is a bit stroppy and, you know, I've heard say, people say she's grumpy and whatever, but I. I liked what I saw so far. That's what I will say. She. And like you said, I like the fact she's something a bit new in terms of the dynamic with the Doctor that we haven't seen for a while, let's put it that way. So, yeah, my initial first impressions of her is that I think she's got great potential. I'm hoping we see some good chemistry between her and. And the Doctor going forward. I saw a little bit of that, particularly the end scene that you talked about. I thought, yeah, they're starting to get to know each other and the way, you know, starting to figure out the way each other works. So I hope going forward they, you know, have some good chemistry. So, yeah, I like her so far, but I just don't know. I need to see a little bit more to make up my mind, I think. Bit like with Tegan, you know, she came in and she was moaning and goodness knows what, and it took a while to get to love Tegan, so I feel like there could be a little bit of that with Belinda. We'll see.

Garry: We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Same thoughts as you on that, bud.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And what about Ncuti's performance then? I thought he had a. I thought it was one of the things that a lot of people said in the run up to season two, excuse me, was especially if you weren't a fan of season one, was that they were concerned that it wouldn't be different enough and wouldn't push the boundary or go in a different direction enough, because they were filmed pretty much back to back, weren't they? Seasons one and two. And I think that is really evident in shoot his performance. I think it's literally like we just saw season one last week. So not that I. Not. I'm saying that he has to change up his performance or. But if you think about some of the shifts that we had with some previous doctors that worked Pretty well. Like, you know, when David Tennant's Doctor sort of morphed into this sort of Doctor that didn't really give a crap for a while. You know, this Time Lord Victorious thing. Yeah, you know, he was a slightly different sort of taped and bit darker and. And obviously McCoy's doctor. We saw that towards the end of his run a little bit. And Capaldi's Doctor as well changed from season. From. Yeah, so that was a bit. So I'm not saying that that has to happen, but it would have been cool for Ncuti just to sort of, you know, look at what worked and what didn't work from season one and, you know, adapt a little bit and change it up just a little bit. But it just felt like a. Just exactly like season one. And of course, we had the teary crying scenes. That's becoming a bit of a. Unfortunately, mate, that's becoming a bit of a meme now, isn't it? It is for his Doctor. So what do you reckon to Ncuti in this one?

Adam: Yeah, I mean that. I think that is one of the downfalls of Syrian, of filming series one and two so close together. Yeah. It hasn't given him time to sit back, reflect, look at what worked, what doesn't work. Where do they want to take the series? And that applies to shoot his performance as well. Nothing to. Not to say I didn't think he was good in it. I thought he was absolutely fine. But, yeah, I agree with you. He didn't make much of a lasting impression. And I guess you could say this episode was designed to introduce the new companion, so she was very much at the forefront the episode. Absolutely fine with that. But I did think that shoot his Doctor got a bit lost. I could almost. I can't really think of much he did in it, to be honest with you, so nothing really wrong with his performance. I absolutely agree with you, mate. I'd love to see him go a little bit, surprise us a bit. That's what I like. I like it when the Doctor sort of surprises us. And I don't mean by laughing at someone dying, I mean by, you know, by being a bit darker and stuff. So, yeah, I hear that could be happening. I don't know. I've heard rumblings that they're taking. They might take his Doctor down the sort of McCoy route. I've just heard rumblings of that, but I don't know if that's this series or if that was something they planned going forward. If it carries on, I have no idea, mate. But I'D like to see a little bit of something slightly different from his doctor going into series two. Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Garry: Yeah. Defo. Any other performances that stood out? I think just a couple of people to pick up on. We had a guy called Manny, played by Max Parker. He was the guy with the. He was the blond dude with the muscles that. When I saw him, I thought, oh, no, not for that reason, but I thought, is the Doctor going to be, you know, leeching all over him and.

Adam: Oh, I see. Oh, I thought you meant because Pex Mark II was back. I thought that's what you're gonna say.

Garry: No, I thought Pex lives. Pex lives. Yeah. And so he was sort of a moody character, wasn't he? Blames Belinda for all this stuff and he was. He was okay. We had old Nick Briggs. He was the voice of the robots.

Adam: Oh, was he? I didn't even know that.

Garry: Yeah, old Briggsy and. Yeah, and that was about it, really. We had Sasha, 55, played by Evelyn Miller. At the beginning. She was. She was really cool, actually, where she comes across as smiley and welcoming to Belinda, but then on the down low, she's like, you know, please help.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Untimely death. She was okay. And. And that's pretty much it. Anita Dobson, just for 30 seconds at the beginning as Mrs. Flood.

Adam: I liked her little cameo, mate, I have to say. It's just. I like the look she gives the Doctor when she sees him. It's a really horrible, like, oh, you're here. Like an annoyance. And the way she backs away. What do you. What do you think of the Talking to the camera that you ain't seen me, you know, very far show, wouldn't it? You wouldn't see me.

Garry: Right. I'm saying me, normally, I wouldn't like.

Adam: That sort of thing, but it did make me smile.

Garry: Oh, I really like it. It's just. It's just something that changes up.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You know, something a bit more spice to them, to what's going on. But just very quick interlude here, mate. Me and the rest of the big blue box team were in London a couple of weekends ago for the Capital Cutaway event run by the DWAs, and Anita Dobson was there. She was.

Adam: She.

Garry: Yeah, we get. We got to see an interview with her on stage, which is really cool. And alas, she didn't reveal anything.

Adam: No.

Garry: About who her character actually was. But in a different interview, she did say that when she found out from Russell who her character is, she said that her eyes have just popped out of her head.

Adam: Really.

Garry: And she was in. Oh, yeah. So I think. I think it's leading to somebody that we've absolutely seen before. 100 cool.

Adam: I am looking forward to that. Does she now live next door to Belinda? That was the other thing I was thinking. Is she moved house or is she just. She just popped by to borrow some sugar. What was she doing there? Like, why was she next door? So, yeah, the mystery of Mrs. Flood is. Is definitely starting to engage with me more than it did before. I think so. I absolutely love a Nia Dobson and it was. Even though she was only in it for a minute, I just thought it was fun to see her actually. I'm definitely getting more engaged with that.

Garry: Yes. Yeah. And then Alan Budd, played by Johnny Green. Those of you that know Johnny Green's name, he's done quite a few big finish stories.

Adam: Okay.

Garry: He's played quite a few characters for big finish and he's now on screen but a really uncomfortable character right from the get go. And you could see that sort of controlling nature. And Belinda pushes back on that towards the end, you know, when she starts to recap their sort of moments together. You know, earlier on like I think it was 17 years prior to the events of we were witnessing and she was like, you're always correcting me. You always do, you know, all that sort of thing. So a bad dude for sure and an uncomfortable watch. But I think that's due to Johnny Green's performance. I think if he didn't play it well enough, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable and he would have missed the point. So I thought. I thought he was pretty good.

Adam: Yeah, he was fine, mate. And I absolutely. I was. I didn't see the twist coming of him in but I knew we were going to see him again. I thought this. They're definitely going to play into that. That storyline and bring, you know, I felt like he was going to be a villain. I just didn't see him coming back as, you know, Iron Maiden, Eddie trapped in that thing. But that was cool. That looked great, didn't it? That not just his prosthetics but the thing that he was in, you know, that big face. It was great, you know. So.

Garry: Yeah.

Adam: Good.

Garry: Yeah. I just want to mention Murray's music as well as we.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: As we start another season again. I think this is not enough time between seasons, mate, for them to just have a bit of a pause and a breather to do stuff because it wasn't bad. And there was a couple of cool scenes where it felt like a bit of A horror film that you were watching. He, you know, there's a brass section that sort of did this weird noise and sort of got you in the spirit, I guess. It was pretty cool. But then during the shootout scenes and some of the action scenes, it was just stuff that I'd heard a thousand times in other action films or stuff like that. So it doesn't sound like quintessential Murray Gold that I think we were spoiled for so many years with back in the day. But it's still not. It's not bad. It's just. I feel like he's not. He's not being as. I don't know what the word is. He's not sort of taking it by the bull by the horns and making it his own. He's kind of mixing in little bits here and there, but then the rest of it, he's just going down the more sort of generic path with things, but not terrible. But I just feel like, yeah, he could also have benefited from having a breather, I think.

Adam: Absolutely, mate. I agree, because it's. I wouldn't say he's on autopilot, but there are bits of music, like when they're in the hospital that, like you said, could be from, you know, any series. It's all jolly and sweet, which in some ways is nice because it makes it feel familiar. He almost sort of takes you back to, you know, you know, like you said, the tenant days or whatever. It's kind of that. But again, it's a bit too samey. And then other times he really mixes it up and throws in some weird sounds like when they were doing all the tripping out stuff. So, yeah, it's a bit of a mixed bag with Murray, to be honest with you. I feel like he needs to take a few more risks in terms of trying something new.

Garry: Yes.

Adam: Really. But, yeah, so I know what you mean. Not. Nothing wrong with it, but. Yeah, I mean, the stuff in the hospital, it kind of grated on me a little bit, to be honest with you. I just thought, yeah, we've heard this kind of jingly. Everything's jolly. I don't know, a little bit autopilot, if you know what I mean.

Garry: Yeah. Felt a little bit like, you know, partners in crime, where.

Adam: Yes, that's it. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. When they play that little, very cool little jingle as they're sort of searching for each other and have those near misses. Yeah, that kind. Yeah, I know what you mean, mate.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. Is there anything else, dude, that. That caught your eye in terms of you loved or you didn't like so much anything else before we put a score on this?

Adam: No, I do. I mean, I just really sort of sum up. I thought, like you said, the storyline in itself, it was pretty thin. But Russell was throwing in some nice ideas, almost, perhaps too much, you know, I mean, like you said, I like the whole. The robots not being out here, every ninth word. That's a nice idea. I don't think he handled the actual underlying tone of the whole, you know, toxic masculinity incel thing that well. But it kind of worked as a story. It just felt like there was lots of ideas being thrown at the screen that perhaps didn't stick as well as they could. But overall I thought it was okay. The only other thing I've got on my list is I didn't, in terms of writing, a little bit lazy. You know, the Dr. Power shorts out, the power in the hospital, probably killing loads of people that are on life support. I mean, again, all it needed was a scene of the lights coming back on and perhaps someone jumping up like the master, you know, going as if they've just regenerated or Captain Jack, you know, so there were, there were little niggles like that in terms of the writing where I felt like the episode was most enjoyable, but it was also quite clunky in terms of the writing in places, so. But other than that, mate, I'm just looking down my list. No, I mean the crying thing, we mentioned that. That's just becoming a thing now, isn't it? You just expect shooter to cry and it's. They need to lay off that or edit that out because that is just becoming laughable. Unfortunately, it has absolutely zero impact. I mean, we hadn't even got to know Sasha to. To be honest, to even care that she had died. So seeing him blubbing his eyes out, it was just an eye roll moment. So things like that, definitely, like you said, they need to be sort of sitting back and you know, adjusting these things to make the series better, I think. Because that is becoming a bit of a joke, the whole crying thing. But yeah, apart from that, mate, I don't think I've got anything else on my list.

Garry: Yeah, I echo your thoughts on that, dude. A little bit clunky with the editing and the writing and some places I think we've got used to this sort of breakneck speed running through some parts of the story now where it's edited so tightly together. It's just that you feel like it's a. That's not a bad thing. You know, if you're trying to create energy and you want things to feel like you're at a quick pace and stuff, of course it's good, but in some parts of store you feel like I would have been cool just to slow that down just a tad, let it breathe. Yeah, yeah. So I totally get that, man. Yeah. And the doctor crying thing. Yeah. I don't know why they keep. I don't know. I don't know who keeps saying to them. Actually. No, do you know what? I know why. It's because this was all done before we all saw season one.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: So they haven't got. Yeah. They haven't got time to go back and, and, and fix that because now they probably filmed another seven weeks worth of crying scenes we can't do anything about. So anyway, just one last thing.

Adam: Did you like the cleaner robot? Because that was one of the things I did like. And again, it's some. Sometimes that doesn't work for me when they go too silly with it, but I kind of liked that little robot. And also I did like the little throwback to gadget. Gadget, you know, polish, Polish. It don't know. For me it worked. I don't know if it will have worked for everyone, but I liked it.

Garry: I loved it, mate.

Adam: You did okay.

Garry: Really cool. Yeah. And again, that sort of old 50s style. Yeah, really, really cool. Yeah, very cute. Right, scores on the old doors. Who's going to go first? Is this one where you're sort of um. And ah, and. Or have you got a different score?

Adam: No, it's not. I know sometimes I'm like, oh, oh, I can't decide. No, this was easy. I wrote this down without even hesitation, mate. 6.5 out of 10.

Garry: 6.5. Yeah, nice. Similar to me. I'm gonna give it a six, mate.

Adam: Six. Okay.

Garry: Yeah. I don't know what the. Even on the second watch, I just thought, yeah, this is not. No way. This is a seven. But it's not middle of the road. There were some nice things to enjoy and it wasn't too bad. So six, mate.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. No, it's just. I hate to use the term so frequently but it's very mid and I just thought, yeah, 6.5. Enjoyable. I'm just glad it wasn't a five or below. You know, that that would have been very disappointing. Yeah, this was okay. 6.5.

Garry: Yeah. And what your thoughts on next week then? Because we got a little snippet at the end for the old. The cinema. The crazy cartoon cinema villain. What are Your thoughts on that? You looking forward to that or.

Adam: Yeah, very much so, mate. I think this is the episode a lot of people are looking forward to. And I said earlier as we started that I wasn't feeling much buzz by the trailers and stuff, but I have to say, I do have. I am trying not to get carried away and get too excited for it, but I. I do have a buzz for this week's episode, which is nice. I haven't felt that for a while, but the trailers have actually worked in terms of getting excited for next week. So this week's, I mean, so, yeah, I hope it's good. It looks. It looks promising. Yeah. Really does. So I hope it. I hope they pull it off and it's a good episode.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. It looks very creative.

Adam: It does, yeah. It looks visually brilliant. Yeah.

Garry: Alrighty then. So that was a 6.5 from him, a 6 from me, and I think we'll close it out there, dude. For episode 420. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Big Blue box. That was 420. And our review of the Robot Revolution to kick off season two. We'll be back next week, as Adam said, for the second episode. Actually back this week. No, next week. The episode's out this week.

Adam: It's confusing.

Garry: The episodes out this week on Saturday. We'll be back next week with our review view of said episode. Yeah. In the meantime, make sure you're following or subscribing to Big Blue Box in your fave podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss an episode when it lands. At this point, probably every Tuesday or Wednesday as we go through season two. And also head over to the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk. you can link off to all the socials. We're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. Blue sky, come and chat with us over there. And we also have a very cool free Discord server. There's a link on the website. Hop over there. Chat. Doctor Who Season two, Ncuti, crying. Anything you want to talk about, it's all happening over there on the Discord server. And you can also check out more geekery on my co host channel's YouTube stuff. The geeks Handbag.

Adam: The Geeks Handbag. Also on all the socials under the same name, the Geeks Handbag. That is is me.

Garry: That is him indeedy. Some really cool unboxings, reviews of products, Blu Rays, cinema trips, the whole lot. It's all on there. Go and check them out. Until next week, then, Bud. Take care of yourselves, everybody, and remember it.