Gods, Tears and Goodbye 4th Wall – Season 2: Lux

Garry: Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Adam: My name's Adam.

Garry: And welcome to episode 421.

Adam: Tada.

Garry: Welcome back to another episode, everybody. Hope you're keeping well and safe. We hope you've had a cracking week and that you've all managed to do something. Doctor.

Adam: Doctor Who related.

Garry: He's in there again. Crikey. Need to up my game again, I think.

Adam: No messing. No messing around.

Garry: Ridiculous.

Adam: Don't make me laugh.

Garry: Don't make me laugh. We are here to review the latest episode of season two is of course Lux from season two. We'll get onto that in a second. It's been a bit of a. Been a bit of a weird time for this season of Doctor Who, bud. Mm, yeah, really weird because rewind to last week. The opening drops for season two. Everybody craps on the story clocks in at just over 2 million views. Fast forward to this week. Fandom seemingly loves this story. Drops down to 1 point. 1.5 something million views. This is video overnights.

Adam: Mm.

Garry: So I know these don't mean anything these days, but it's really funny how fandom works with this stuff. How, yeah, how just the viewing figure seems to drop off but yet everyone rates how. How great the episode is. You'll find out of course, dear listener, if we think if this episode was any good or not. But mate, it's weird in it.

Adam: Hey, yeah, could be a Marmite one this week. I don't know what you're gonna have made of this story with the viewing figures though. I think this is the, this is the story I think a lot of people have been looking forward to because we've seen lots of clips of the character Lux, what's his other name, Mr. Ring a Ding. And I think a lot of people have been anticipating this. So I feel like because of the iplayer drop thing in the uk, I feel like a lot of people will have wanted to watch it before transmission. So I'm assuming there'll be quite a big add on to the overnight figures when they add on the iplayer figures as well. But yeah, 1.58 or whatever it was. Eek. Not great. But yeah, well, let's, you know, let's not panic yet, let's not jump ship yet. Let's wait and see what it all comes to. Because I think a lot of people will have watched this on the iplayer because, yeah, there was a buzz around this episode, I think more, more than the actual season opener, I think. But yes, I Mean, can't wait to hear what you thought of this one because it's. It's definitely something a bit different, isn't it, this week?

Garry: Yeah, very different and very much needed, I think.

Adam: Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah.

Garry: Spice a bit of something new creative thrown in there. Can't have the bloody Doctor crying all the time, can we? No, I mean, what would happen if they did that?

Adam: Yeah, Eve. Oh, man. Even in the Next Line trailer, the very last shot was of him crying and I'm like, come on, you're just trolling us now. This is getting ridiculous.

Garry: Oh, that's funny, isn't it? I think, I think Russell and the other peeps over at Bad Wolf and the B Bar, I think that they're in that frame of mind with this season where they're starting to troll us a little bit with a few bits and pieces which we'll get on to. It's quite evident in this episode. Yeah, but talking of viewing figures, dude, the robot revolution, the seven day viewing figures, which is where they add in The. The terrestrial BBC stuff and the streaming figures and whatnot over seven days was 3.571 mil.

Adam: Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's not what we'd want, but it's not. I don't think it's disastrous, but it's not. Oh, it's not great. I mean, I can't wrap it up in cotton balls. Yeah, it's kind of a bit, I mean, but it gives us an indication, I think, of what will be added on to. So we're going to be around the 3 million, I think, by the time they've added on the iplayer ones this, this time next week, I'm assuming.

Garry: Yeah, we should be. Yeah, and it's, it's all kind of, you know, whatever these days, especially the overnight viewing figures. But when you look at things like some of the more popular shows that Doctor Who goes up against, they're not too far in front. I think Doctor Who last week was like the third most watched show on BBC or the fourth or something. Yeah, no, second. The second most watched show. And then this week it was the third or the fourth or something like that. And this is out of like, I don't know, 20 programs or something. So not terrible by any means.

Adam: No, I think that's what I'm consoling myself with. You know, on the one hand, it looks like a really low figure and because of the history of Doctor Who when it got canceled in the 80s, you know, we all get a bit edgy about it. I mean, I'm absolutely in no doubt that we're in for a break. Absolutely. No, I don't think Dr. Who's going to come back after this series. This. You know, we're not going to see any more this year. We're not going to get a special. But. So I'm not in denial, but. But I do console myself with the fact that, yeah, it's still up there in. In one as one of the most watched programs of the week or whatever. So it's, you know, it's balancing the scales and finding a middle ground between those two, I think.

Garry: Yeah, defo.

Adam: Yeah, that's the way I'm looking at it. That's the way I'm getting through. Through life as a Whovian. I do hate that word, by the way. I've never got used to the name Whovian, but, you know, for one of a better phrase.

Garry: Yeah, we've never used that, have we? So far. Oh, you're Garry. He's a Whovian. In he.

Adam: The Trek is like Trekkie.

Garry: Do you know what? I honestly don't know. The only thing that comes to mind with that is from the. The. The film fanboys, the Star wars film fanboys. That was out years ago, which is a bit. I don't know if anyone's ever seen it. It's a hilarious film. It's Dan Fogler, I think, and. And Jay Baruchell and some other people. Basically, a bunch of Star wars fans travel across the country to break into Lucasfilm to watch an early draft of Episode one. So it's set around that sort of. Yeah, that time period of fandom. And there's a scene where they go to a town in the US which is supposedly the birthplace of Captain Kirk, the future birthplace. And there's a bunch of Star Trek fans there and they all have a bit of a. It starts out with some bant and then it gets into a bit of a fist fight. And. And one of the Star Trek fans, he says, you know, strong words for a Trekkie. And he replies with, we are called Trekkers. Trekkers. At this point, Trekkie is derogatory, apparently. So I only know it from that humorous scene from that film.

Adam: But the film called. I've not heard of it.

Garry: Fanboys. It's really cool.

Adam: Yeah. So what do we call Star wars fans, mate? What are you.

Garry: I don't know.

Adam: I can't make it work.

Garry: No, you can't. I don't think there is a name for that. I think it's just Star wars fans. Yeah, nice and simple.

Adam: Draw droids now. I can't. I just can't think of one for you. Struggling here. Lightsaber people. No.

Garry: No. Anyway, but yeah, if any Star Trek fans listening, I actually. I could fight Mark Donaldson, who used to write for the. For the blog. He's a massive. I can say Trekkie then. We don't know what it is, but he's a massive Star Trek fan. Mark, what do you want to be called, mate? What's the. What's the thing?

Adam: Let us know.

Garry: We'll endeavor to use it.

Adam: Email us at. Big blue box, blah, blah, blah.

Garry: Yeah, PO Box. Put it in the back of an envelope. Right. Whovians and Trekkers alike, mate. What's a review for this week?

Adam: Yeah, so here we are, Season two, or whatever it's called, Episode two. And it's called Luxury. Get ready. Cause here I come.

Garry: We're an actual 1952. We're in Miami.

Adam: The movies keep playing to an empty house.

Garry: You actually want to investigate that spooky old cinema. Hello.

Adam: Ta da.

Garry: Scooby Doo. Honey, I'm Vel. I'm beaming at you. This is impossible. Cool trailer, though.

Adam: Yeah, I like that.

Garry: Yep. I opted for our old go to on YouTube. Very similar, very similar. Tas UK. I can't remember the full name. I can never say the name of the channel, but thank you very much for another awesome trailer. So, Lux was broadcast the other day, the 19th of April. Runtime just over 40 minutes. Was written by RTD version 2, directed by Amanda Brochi and stars obviously shooty Gatwise. The 15th Dr. Farada Seth, who was the new companion? Belinda Alan Cumming as Mr. Ring a Ding. Probably the biggest name on the sheet there, and a bunch of other supporting cast members. Synopsis is the Doctor's quest to get Belinda home takes the TARDIS to Miami in 1952, where an abandoned cinema is hiding a terrifying secret. Can the Doctor uncover Lux's power? Mate, you and I have seen this just the once. This one.

Adam: Oh, you've only watched it once as well.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. So we're both relying on each other to prod us in the right direction with names and things and whatnot, which we'll get on to, but out the gate as usual. What are your thoughts, dude?

Adam: Yeah, it can't just say it pains me. I've only had a chance to watch this once because as regular listeners will know, I always like to give an Episode two watches just to really let the dust settle and see how I feel about it. I just haven't had a chance this week. I didn't even get to watch it on Saturday. I didn't watch this till Sunday night.

Garry: So, fan alert.

Adam: I know what is going on, but I'll tell you what, mate, it was two things, right? So ever since the trailer dropped, this is kind of the one that I've been looking forward to because I loved, you know, the clips that we'd seen. There's been a bit of a buzz around it and. And so, yeah, I was looking forward to this one. And also because I didn't get to watch it till Sunday night, I was sort of trying, you know, I wanted to avoid spoilers, so I was kind of keeping off social media. But you know what, it's like, you open your phone. I didn't see any spoilers, but what I did see was a lot of positivity towards this episode, which was really made such a nice change to actually open X, Twitter, whatever you want to call it these days, and actually see people saying, this episode was good. So I went into this with a very. I didn't want to get my expectations too high, but I went into it with a very positive hopes. I thought, yes, you know, people are saying this is really good. And that makes a change for Doctor Who fandom at the minute. So. So I was looking forward to it all round and I did enjoy it. I watched it with my partner once again, which was nice. It's. I think now that I'm back in the States and, you know, we're back together, it's nice to be watching Doctor Who together because he definitely, like your partner, has drifted off from watching Doctor Who over the years. So it's nice that we're actually setting. Sitting down and watching this together. And we both enjoyed it. What I just want to say in my sort of opening thoughts, really, is that I loved the beginning. I thought it had a great sense of atmosphere. I loved the concept. I loved Russell for actually doing something different. I'm not going to say new, because I think perhaps, you know, there are comparisons out there of, you know, that you could compare this episode to. But I like the fact Russell tried something different. I didn't mind the meta stuff in the middle. I know a lot of people felt that's where the episode fell apart, but what did let it down for me, mate. And I'm sorry, because it was. Honestly, it was going so well. I thought, yes, this is a kind of Doctor Who episode we haven't had for some time. I'm really invested in this I'm really enjoying this. Even the meta stuff with the Doctor Who fans and the Doctor coming out the TV screen. But where, where it came off the rails for me, mate, was the ending. It just didn't land for me. I felt so underwhelmed by the quick wrap up and the way that Lux just floated into the sky and it just. Nothing happened. I thought, oh my gosh, Russell, you created this great character, Mr. Ding A Ling Lux. He. I was expecting him to be really scary and terrifying and really put the Doctor through the wringer and, you know, I just wanted so much, to quote the temp, Doctor, so much more. It had such great potential to be a really proper, scary, full on Doctor episode. And it started like that and then Mr. Ding and then kind of disappeared through the middle part and didn't do anything. And then at the end when he started getting all big and evil, I thought, here we go. And he'd got the Doctor against the wall was like, yes, this is what I wanted, but it's taken too long to get there. And then he just floated up into the sky and I really felt let down by the ending, mate. Just kind of made what could have been, I think a really good episode. Just a good episode. It was so close to being brilliant, I think. But for me personally, it just fizzled out and I just felt Mr. Dingaling was completely wasted. He. He's just so cool. I love him. I think he's such a good baddie. I find it frustrating, you know, that once again we get a great villain and they don't really do anything with him. So I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong. But it just didn't quite hit the potential I think this episode had. But overall, mate, I thought it was very good and it's great to see something different in Doctor Who. I love the fact that they've tried something new with it. Over to you, what do you reckon?

Garry: Okay, dude. Yes, for the most part, I quite like this. I was appreciative of the creativity with it. I think we were very much in need of just a completely off, you know, crazy episode of Doctor Who. That wasn't. That wasn't too deep, that wasn't too emotional. We just needed a good sort of isolated romp of a story, you know, and for the most part, I think they, they did deliver with that. So, yeah, for the most part I liked it. However, I will say that it's one of those times where again, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone and I'm taking Funny pills. Because pretty much every. Every person on social media and even some of our own writing team and people in our Discord server have said how wonderful it is and how much they enjoyed it. It didn't quite land for me that much. You know, I didn't come away from it thinking, crikey, you know, we're back in business. You know, this is what Doctor Who should be like. I think there was a few things that, like, you just didn't quite land for me and didn't bring it home as much as I was hoping for. But I did appreciate the, the, the, the whole vibe of the story. I think one thing that is cool, and I hope they continue this as we go through the second season for shooty, is that last week with the Robot Revolution, that had a very distinct style, you know, that futuristic but retro 50s vibe. So you can tell that the, the, the visual designers and the production designers having a ball, just nailing all that stuff. And then this week's very much the same. It's going back to, you know, back to that 50s style again, you know, but just in a different location, obviously, back on Earth in Miami and, and that's evident in the costumes they're wearing and, you know, all that stuff. So, yeah, I'm really liking how they've. How they've sort of worked this up to be very, very visually a visual storytelling thing, as well as just, you know, the Doctor and the companion doing their thing. It's a bit like, you know, the, that episode, I think, is it the Idiot's Lantern, where the Doctor and Rose come out of the TARDIS and they're in like, 50s?

Adam: Oh, yeah.

Garry: And that sort of thing, that was really fun, you know, that was a really cool sort of little diversion away from sort of the norm. So, yeah, I did like it. A couple of things, just off the bat do that I wasn't too fond of. The first one is I think the character of Lux was a bit wasted.

Adam: Yes.

Garry: In, in two ways for me. The first one was that he wasn't anywhere near creepy and scary enough for me.

Adam: Absolutely agree. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. I thought this was going to be one of those episodes where the kids would be legging out of the room like, mom, I'm scared. This character is really scary. You know, I could imagine kids of like, 6, 7 watching this without breaking a sweat, you know, So I think they teased it really well in the trailer. I think he had the potential to be a. To be a really creepy, scary dude. But, you know, the most you saw was like his eyebrows turn in and he looked a bit angry at a couple of points and. And that was it. The voice was more scary than the visual thing. So Alan Cumming did a great job of that. And then the second thing. Yeah, the second thing is, as you said, was the ending was a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. You know, Russell's done this loads of times where you're shifting up the gears as you go through the episode and you think you're onto a banger of an ending, and then it all just sort of ends in a. Oh, that was. That was quick. And that was nice. I guess it's the word, you know, for. It's really weird because last week you had the Doctor jumping up and down and celebrating when somebody's been killed and. Yeah, yeah. And then you fast forward to this one and the. The baddie of the stories essentially become one with the universe and is a Consumed so much light that they've become light, I think, is the gist of it. And they've become one with the universe and now they are just everywhere and everything and. And all that stuff. And the Doctor's like, oh, okay. So, yeah, that was good to do that. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It just felt like there was a lot of sort of hands on hips at the end and like.

Adam: Okay, I found it. Yeah. I found the endings very underwhelming, mate. Like you said, it was just kind of like, okay, that's that done then. So off we go.

Garry: Exactly. Yeah. Right, that's that thing all lovely wrapped up in a nice little bow. What should we do next? We don't know. Should we go in the tardis, Have a sit down? Yeah, come on in. So I think the. The better part of the ending was Mrs. Flood coming back. You know, she's popping up again and. Yeah. So, obviously, towards the end of this season, or at the end of the season with probably going to have the reveal.

Adam: Right.

Garry: For who Mrs. Flood is.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And the jury's out on what character she is. But I'm more interested in that little story arc rather than the second half of this story, if I'm honest.

Adam: Mate, do you think we're going to see her every week? Because I must admit, I'm enjoying these little cameos of her popping up, you know, last week and this week. I'm just wondering if she's going to appear every week. I think someone pointed out that there was a. One of the cartoon characters looked like her, had the same outfit as well, you know, when Mr. Dingaling you know, went in. I don't know, there was a scene. What's he called? What's he called?

Garry: Mr. Ring.

Adam: Mr. Ring a ding. Yeah. Actually, that could be. Yeah. Yeah.

Garry: That's a different program.

Adam: Yeah. Sorry, I'm getting confused with a late night channel. But somebody did point out that Mrs. Flood looked like one of the cartoon characters as well. So I wonder if she was in that. But, yeah, I am intrigued by Mrs. Flood. I think I've seen a few people saying they're. They're bored by that already and they don't care who she is. But I'm. I'm still quite invested in it because I really love Anita Dobson. I just think she's a fun character. So I'm looking forward to that reveal.

Garry: Yeah.

Adam: Get it.

Garry: Yeah. And more. It's definitely a theme for Russell, isn't it, at the moment, this break in the fourth wall thing.

Adam: Yep.

Garry: So Mrs. Flood does that at the end, of course. And.

Adam: Well, the day she mentioned was interesting, wasn't it, when she said the show comes to an end on May 24th. What was that?

Garry: Right.

Adam: Is that what she said?

Garry: Yeah, I think that's what I said earlier. I think that's just Russell and the other guys just trolling fandom a little bit.

Adam: Yeah, I kind of like that. Kind of, you know, brought it brought you into the story and I don't know, I kind of like what he did there myself.

Garry: Yeah, well, I think that's. I could be wrong. Let me just.

Adam: Oh, I looked earlier and I thought it was. Is that the. When the final is. But it's not, is it? It's the following week.

Garry: Yeah. So May 24th is episode seven, and we've got another episode after that, so.

Adam: Yeah, I like the fact it sounds like they've plotted stuff out. I think this is one of the things we said during shoot his first season that with Russell in. In the RTD1 era, he was very good at sort of plotting things and putting things in, and they didn't always pay off. But, you know, it felt like he had structure. It didn't feel like that for shoot his first season. It almost felt like they would just throw in stuff and seeing what's stuck to the wall. Whereas this one, I am starting to feel like there's more structure to it. So I do hope whatever this turns out to be with Mrs. Flood and her giving this date and the, you know, that's when the show ends, I do hope it has a really good payoff or at least a satisfied one. I'm not gonna get my hopes up too much, but I does feel more structured to me, so far, series two, we're only. We're only two episodes in, so I'm hoping it doesn't come off the rails.

Garry: Same. Yeah. Two episodes in, we're not doing too bad. And before we get on to the other big break in whatever wall you want to call that bit, what did you think to this whole setting of the 50s? Because the. It was cool. It was cool in a way, but it was. It felt like a bit of a. Like, what's the way to put it? Like, it felt like it was on a film set, but not in a way that was meant to make you think. Like it wasn't on a film set. How do I. How do I make that sound better? Sorry. You know, like, with some episodes in the past where, you know, like, Matt Smith's era, where the story is set in New York and you can clearly see that they are in Central park in New York, you know. Yeah. You immediately get that feeling of, okay, this is not a sound stage. It's not a set. They're actually in New York. Or even just good old Wales, mate. Just good old knocking around Wales. A million different locations. You can tell that they are somewhere with this. It felt like. Like the Warner Brothers backlot from. From back in the day sort of thing, which was okay, but I. I got. Because of that, I got the vibe throughout the story that the. It just felt a bit. Yeah, I don't know. It felt a bit. Not fake, but not pretend. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

Adam: I think I do, mate. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. A level of legitimacy to it than, like, you know, back in the day, in Matt Smith's era, when they had nowhere near as much money as they do now, they managed to still get out and about and do the thing and, you know, and it felt legit because they were out there doing the thing. Whereas now it's like, last week was green screened to death and. And now this week, it's just. It's just a backlot somewhere, you know, And I don't know, I. I feel like we're losing a little bit of the. Because Doctor Who's always been known for, back in the classic years being very much, let's go to a quarry or let's go to a cave, or let's go to this wet, windy or sometimes sunny part, you know, the country. You know, let's do that stuff. And then fast forward to modern Doctor Who. You know, it's known for, you know, going to US locations, going around Wales and doing all the things. I now feel like it's become one of those programs where it's like you're watching. I'll tell you what, we mentioned Star Trek earlier. You know, when you watch an episode of like Star Trek the Next Generation.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You know that 99% of all of it is just a set. You know, very, very rarely do they actually go anywhere. Yeah, I feel like it's like that at the moment.

Adam: I mean, I guess what you're saying is it didn't. Maybe it didn't sell Miami to you. I think if they'd have actually gone to Miami, we'd have had shooty, you know, driving down the road with blue skies and palm trees and. And playing, you know, probably Carly Minogue or something. But yeah, I get what you mean. It did feel a bit contained in that sense in terms of location. I also, when they were in the diner, I had flashbacks to good. The good old days of Eddie's Diner in Wales. You remember when they used to film in there? Because that's appeared in. Wow, Matt Smith's era, Capalda's era. But of course it wasn't Eddie's Diner because that sadly closed. But it did remind me of that and I thought, yeah, if that was still open, I'm pretty sure they would have filmed in there. But yeah, I don't know, mate. I guess because it was all contained in that cinema film, the most part of the story, I didn't mind it so much. But I get the point you're making. Maybe all the money went on the animation because I think it looked great as an episode. I mean, Mr. Let me get his name right. I'm just going to call him Lux because it's so much easier. But Mr. Ring a Ding looked fantastic, I thought, in terms of, you know, mixing the animation style with the film. So maybe it all went on that they couldn't afford to go to Miami.

Garry: Yeah, well, they were. They were doing a lot of stuff on the post production for it. So all of the, all of the references to Lux's movement and everything, it was all filmed on set with a crew and everything. And then it was drawn into the scene by animators from Frame Store, the company. Frame Store.

Adam: Okay.

Garry: But they were working on that stuff right up until the end of September last year. Even though everything had been filmed and done months and months before that, they.

Adam: Were still a great job. Yeah, I think it looked good, didn't it?

Garry: It did, yeah. It was very cool. We had that very authentic feel that you've seen, you know, like the really old Disney animated cartoons like Steamboat Willie or Steamboat Mickey, whatever it's called.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: From back in the day, those old stylized, you know, Fantasia. Yeah. There is a saying for these type of. These type of animated characters. Is it host pipe characters or something like that? Yeah, and it was. And they did a great job with that. Like I said, I just wish they made him more threatening and more scary looking.

Adam: That's my biggest bugbear with it, mate. I 100% agree with you about that. That's the thing I'm most frustrated about. I've been so looking Forward to meeting Mr. Ring a dink that I. I have to keep looking at Wiki to make sure I say his name right. That I really. Yeah, I wanted to see him be like a really scary. Like you said, get the kids back behind the sofa. Because I think kids would have. I would think if they were watching this would have enjoyed it. I think kids like to be scared and they could have pushed it much further with the scare factor than they did. You know, it felt like he was really tame in comparison to what I was expecting. And I think what he could have been, they really could have. Yeah. It just made him. We're going to remember him because of the look, you know, he was such a rounded character in terms of that, you know, the visuals, but in what he actually did. And apart from a few nice little moments like don't make me laugh, you know, I'm not saying he's forgettable, but he could have been so much more memorable. Do you know what I'm saying? He could have been. One of the things Russell's era has been sadly lacking since he come back is memorable villains and baddies and monsters and things like that. He could have been one of them. But I, I feel like I don't think he's going to be forgotten, but I don't think he's going to be remembered as much as he could have been, if you know what I mean. It could have been a new classic, I feel, but it just didn't hit the mark.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, there was some, there was some good world building stuff behind the scenes. So his, the way that he was introduced into the episode was quite cool. With the moon coming through. Yeah, that was. And you know, being sort of imbued actually into the film stock and then coming to life through that way. That was really cool. And although the, the character of Mr. Ringer Ding was this kind of embodiment of, of Lux that you see coming out of the screen and stuff. The, the stuff behind that, his, the, the real side of it, this whole pantion of, of Discord thing, that was really cool because that links some older episodes of who together, doesn't it? So the obvious one is the toy maker stuff. Yeah, it was, was another one of the, of these gods, you know, the gods of chaos. I think there's another name for them which links back to classic who and obviously the specials. And Maestro. Yeah, is another one. And the Trickster from the Sarah Jane adventures. That was really cool. Sutek, of course from the classic years and, and the newer stuff. So I like that whole expanding on that stuff a little bit and the Doctor coming to the realization that that's what Lux was and, and, and, and you know, getting some more stuff for that. Um, there was a, it was a bit, it was a little bit on the nose and a bit obvious how we got to that. So when the cinema starts to shake and the letters on the front of the cinema fall off and it leaves the word Harbin, you know, that was a little bit like, oh, okay, yeah, we don't need to be spoon fed this anymore. You know, we kind of know, you know what, what the deal is. You don't have to do that stuff. But I did like the world building behind the scenes with Lux.

Adam: Yeah, no, I'd agree with that. I absolutely agree with that, mate. And the lettering falling off the cinema as well. It was kind of like, yeah, we get it. We saw that coming a mile off. But yeah, it's nice to, nice to have this pantheon of gods thing built. Built up because Russell's very much leaning into that and I'm all for that. I think it's a cool concept. So. Yeah, I agree.

Garry: Yeah, pretty cool. And yeah, it was just that ending again with, with, with Lux. It's just weird. Yeah, it was just kind of mind you, they did this with Sutek though.

Adam: I know.

Garry: You know, it's like all of this, all the whole build up to it and everything and then he ends up just being smashed through the wall of the time vortex because he couldn't hold on to a piece of string.

Adam: And oh, Russell, I mean this, this is the thing, mate, I have to say. This is what. You know, let me just get this off my chest now. This is the thing that completely knocked points off for me when I got to the end of it was. Yeah, obviously the quick wrap up. The, the way that the, the film cans were set on fire and exploded and blew A hole in the wall. They would just burn. And what made him blow up? And there seemed to me like Russell has sort of come up with a good script and sort of got to the end. And then they were like, russell, we need that script in 10 minutes. Oh, yeah. Oh, I don't know. Some film cans explode and blow a hole in the wall. Light comes in the end. And it just, you know, I mean, it just felt so. I don't want to say lazy, but I can't think of a better way to express it. You know, it's just like film cans don't explode, but don't worry about it. And we're seeing a lot of that in Russell's writing during the second era of things that, you know, we just have to overlook, which is. Yeah, I'm going to just say it's a bit lazy. You know, it's just a lazy way to get to the conclusion. And I'm sure there was something else, but looking at my notes, but yeah, the ending just. Just fell really flat for me, unfortunately. Actually, just backtracking, mate. Let's get to the meta stuff. What. Because I'm dying to know, what did you think when they got trapped and they came through the television? Because that was the bit that me and my partner were like, oh, this is cool. But I see a lot of people didn't like the whole coming through the TV and meeting actual Doctor Who fans and. And the whole Blink joke being the favorite episodes that now, I gotta say, I enjoyed it myself, but not everyone did. What did you think of it? Did you like it?

Garry: Yeah, it was kind of cool. It was again, like the episode as a whole, it was a. Just a. Something new. Something different too.

Adam: Yeah, it's kind.

Garry: Because Doctor Who, although it's been done a lot in the last year, Doctor Who wasn't really known for doing this stuff before, was it? Not that it had to, but it was very rare that we had the fourth Wall thing or anything meta like this. So that was a start of a really cool part of the episode, actually, when they got turned into cartoon characters at first.

Adam: Oh, yes. Actually, I'd actually forgotten. Gotten that. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. That was cool, having those guys as cartoon characters and then, you know, realizing that I think it was coming up with a very sort of deep emotion of something. It just regenerated them back, you know, slowly through 3D and. And that sort of thing. And then they were stuck in the film stock. And then when they tried to escape, they've gone like the wrong way around. If that makes sense. Instead of going back into the episode and the story, it looks like they've come into the real world, our world.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: With these Doctor Who fans. And it's. It was, it was really cool, but also heartbreaking at the same time because the. Those three Doctor Who fans and they were very, very sweet, weren't they? You had one of them in the dock of the Tom Baker scarf. They're all wearing a Doctor Who T shirt of some sort. And the. I don't know about you, mate. Did you have a quick second to just catch all of the merch behind them?

Adam: Oh, I saw the Blu Ray sets, mate. Yes. What else did you spot?

Garry: Yeah, so there was a little, little Dalek figures, there was some old DVDs, that was the Blu Ray sets and some other bits. It was very, very cool and. But it was heartbreaking because they, at that point in the story, they knew that they were the ones that didn't really exist. And it was like, oh, man, it's like. But we also had the little trolley moment as well, didn't we? We had RIP Doctor Who. Yeah, I'm sure that's. Yeah, it must be Russell just like, you know, having a little dig at fandom.

Adam: Absolutely, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Garry: That wasn't by accident.

Adam: No. I mean, I like you. I found I wouldn't want this to happen again. But as a one off thing, I thought it. For me, it was really interesting and I didn't see it coming. So when the Doctor stepped through and I was like, he was talking Doctor Who fans. I thought, what the heck is going on now? Personally, I love it when Doctor Who does this kind of thing, you know, now and again. I mean, not every week, but. Yeah, this is kind of what I love when we get an episode like this. I'm probably very much in the minority that I loved the bit in. Is it called it takes you away the Jody episode, You know, the chair on the frog. Most people hate that. Poor little frog. I, for me, that was a real hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I really liked that moment because it was so far out there, you know, I mean, it was just like, what the heck? I like it when Doctor Who does that every now and again. So, yeah, I really liked it when they started sort of looking at me through the TV screen and I just thought, yeah, this is kind of what I want from Doctor Who. Something that's making me think and, and, and actually keeping me invested and not wanting to look at my phone. I was really sort of engaged by It. So, yeah, I didn't mind the whole mayor thing and it didn't go on too long either because I. I was expecting the animation to be the animation in terms of the Doctor and Belinda. I thought that was going to be a lot more than we got. But again, I think it was just right, you know, got a little bit of that, then this. And it was. You know, the episode was throwing you all over the place. So, yeah, for me, that. That kind of worked.

Garry: Yeah. And it was nice that they used an old piece of music from. I can't remember what episode it was from. It was Matt Smith episode, I think.

Adam: Yeah, it's a. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: It was a series five or six.

Adam: Amy's theme, but it was. It was something like that. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. It had a real lovely sort of nostalgic feel to it and a nice sort of warm and cozy. Like. This is what millions of other who fans are doing right now with us.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You know what sat around watching Doctor Who and. Which is really cool. So. Yeah, I like you. I appreciated that bit. It was cool because it was just something different and they're just being creative with that stuff, which is. So. I think we really need that at the moment. So. Yeah, I quite like that, dude.

Adam: Yeah. Creative ideas, mate. That's. That's what I mean. Something that's not predictable. Like last week's episode as an intro. It was fun, it was enjoyable, but it was very predictable. Russell. I think I said it in our review. It was a very typical RTD opener. Light flight, Fluffy new companion music. This one, you didn't quite know where it was going and I appreciate it being like that. Like you said, it's definitely very much needed at the moment with Doctor Who just to wake us up a bit and think, oh, okay, they are doing some. Trying something new.

Garry: Yeah. Yes. What did you think, too? A couple of bits I want to pick up on. Dude. Actually, before I get on to that, I must mention what's going on with Murray Gold, mate. I don't know if it's. I don't know if it's Murray having some kind of say in the final mix or if it's just the way this is being mastered and put out on. I don't know. I'm not sure if watching this through sky here in the UK via the. By BBC1 would be different to watching it on Iplayer, the app. But the music is just killing some of the. The dialogue in some scenes. It's just way too much it. There's just a couple of Scenes where you're trying to. I had to, I had to skip back. I had to do the whole, you know, the old 10 second skip back because I couldn't catch what the doctor was saying in one scene because the music was just going ballistic in the background. And we had this last week in the Robot Revolution where, yeah, Murray's music, it's not bad. It's not, don't get me wrong, it's not as good as a. It used to be when Murray was in it before, but it's still not bad music. But yeah, it's just the mix is killing some of the. Some of the scenes where you're trying to catch what the. What the actors are saying. But dude, I'm not. I'll be honest with you, I'm not feeling Murray's music since the comeback. It's. It. It doesn't feel like Murray Gold.

Adam: Yes and no. Yeah, I'm a bit the same. There are sometimes when he does this, I don't like his. When he. When we were in. So the scene at the start, for example, you know, when we get. So this kind of picks up almost straight off from the last week's episode where they're still in the same clothes. They do the whole clothes change thing. It's a fun scene to get this episode started and Murray's doing his happy, jingly music. I don't like it. It just sounds so 2005, to be honest. You know, I mean, it's that sort of jolly. It's Murray on autopilot, I feel. But then when we get in the cinema and it's creepy and he's doing all the sort of 1950s kind of stuff, I feel. Oh, okay. I feel like Murray's woke up now and he's like quite enjoying himself. So it's a bit of a mixed bag with Murray for me at the minute. I. Some of it just sounds autopilot and then every now and again he throws you something and I think, oh, yeah, that's pretty good. I like that. But we're getting. We haven't got any themes. Like it's. Belinda got a theme, you know, like, you know, like Donna Same or Rosie's theme. The Doctor's theme. I haven't picked up on any sort of standout themes yet. I know we're only two episodes in, but I can't think of any from series. Oh, no, actually, sorry. Series one did have the Doctor theme, didn't it? So, yeah, I don't know. I know what you mean about Murray, mate. And the sound mix. Absolutely agree. It's not just you. I don't know how this is still happening in this. Because this complaint about sound drowning out the dialogue has been going on for years, not just with Doctor Who, but with TV in general. So how are we still. How is this still not being addressed? Is it because they think everyone's got a sound system? Because I'm sure it sounds great through someone who's got 20 speakers with, you know, I mean, surround sound, whatever, but for your average person watching on tv, it's. Yeah, it's completely drowning out a lot of the dialogue.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just wanted to pick on. Pick that up, because I know Russell listens, of course.

Adam: Well, I don't know if he does anymore, but, yeah, he used to.

Garry: I don't know if it's too late to go back and have a little fiddle with the mix, maybe. But, yeah. Two things I want to pick up on. The first one is the Doctor and Belinda all call. Now. That didn't last long, did it?

Adam: No.

Garry: So it was really cool, that tension between them in the. In the last episode. They set that up wonderfully with Belinda being this much stronger person, not being swept up in the whole tide of the Doctor's energy and charm and everything. She just wants to go home. Simple as that. They're obviously encountering. Encountering problems with this whole particular date. Actually, I found it really funny. I was listening to the Doctor Who show.

Adam: Yeah. I love their hot takes. Hi, guys. If you're listening.

Garry: Yeah, hi, guys. Their hot takes are really cool and I found it hilarious when they said, why can't they just land the Tardis on May 23rd and just chill for a bit? Just wait for it to, you know, time to tick over. They make a very good point. And I know you shouldn't. You shouldn't allow your brain to go into that stuff too much because it just melts, you know? But in the first episode, they set that tension up really cool. And at the start of this episode, it was still there. Belinda's getting very frustrated that she just wants to go home. And the Doctor sort of gives a bit of a smile, convinces her after she's put on the cool 50s dress and does her hair and makeup and stuff. I also make at the beginning. What was that about? Oh, God, the whole Scooby Doo thing where they run out of one door in the TARDIS and then another door opens up literally within a split second and they're all in different clothes, you know, like in a Scooby Doo cartoon. When they run out of one door and then further down the corridor they run out of the different door. Do you know what I mean by that?

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Oh, no, don't do that again, Russell, don't. Don't do that, mate. But, yeah, but then through this episode, they did that thing where they have to turn themselves back out of an animated. Animated people back into real life people. And so they start, you know, dropping truth bombs to get their sort of emotional state charged. And then later on in the episode, she's like, everything I said earlier was true. He's like, yeah, I know. It was true as well, babes, blah, blah, blah. And then they hold hands, a little smile and it seems like now that's just gone. That's that initial tension and everything. We might see it next week, who knows? But they just seem to be all good now, like, yeah, yeah.

Adam: I mean, yeah, this has been built up to be a big thing. It's all over the posters. Get her home. So, yeah, I don't know. Surely they haven't thrown that whole storyline away that quick, have they? I mean, but I thought the same thing. I was like, this feels like a mid season moment when she's like kissing the Doctor's hand, like she's really got to know him. And it felt a little bit of a quick turnaround after last week. So I absolutely know where you're coming from, mate. And the date things bugged me as well. So, yeah, I was also listening to Rob and Dave's hot take on the Doctor Who show and they were saying that and I thought, that's absolutely right. Why would they. Why can't you just go back the day before? It reminds me of when the Doctor couldn't go back and save Amy and Rory. You know, that. That whole date thing didn't make any sense. The Doctor can't. The TARDIS can't land on that date. We'll go back and, you know, a few days before and you know, it's kind of a. Again, it's a don't think too hard about it thing, which, don't know. It's already been done once, so it's. I find that frustrating. Maybe we'll find there out there is a reason for it. Just while I mentioned Rob and Dave, may I also like the fact that I think it was Dave. No, it might have been Rob. I forget which one said there's an episode of the Goodies from the. Remember the goodies from the 70s or whenever it was that actually kind of did this concept all the way Back then. So I don't know if Russell's been watching the Goodies recently. Probably I am old enough to remember the Goodies, but I don't remember that particular episode, but I appreciated them bringing it to my attention.

Garry: Yeah. Yes, that. That was a cool. Yeah, those guys are very cool. If you've not listened to the Doctor Who show before, don't know where you've been. But they're a Doctor Who podcast been running for years, and they do. Those guys are just sort of in. Right in there with. With. With pop culture and everything else, because they. They also comment on, you know, other types of TV shows. I think they did a Blake 7. Some Blake 7 stuff at one point. Yeah. Yeah. And also they talk about Star wars and other bits and pieces. Two very cool guys. Just. Yeah, the DOT is just called the Doctor Who Show and their hot takes are very cool. And. Yeah, so I. I remember them talking about the Goodies, but I don't. I wasn't old. I'm not old enough to remember that. Ah, sorry, mate. Sorry, dude.

Adam: Yeah, well, I hope the date thing gets explained, mate, because it is a bit of a glaringly sort of obvious thing, like. Yeah. Why can't you go back on a day before.

Garry: Yeah. I mean, it seems like a limitation with the TARDIS rather than the Doctor and stuff, because didn't we have this with. With the Christmas special where the Doctor had to wait a year.

Adam: Oh, yeah.

Garry: To do something. I know. There was the whole argument about, couldn't he just go off and find the 14th doctor who's chilling out with a TARDIS in the garden. Yeah, go and do, mate. You've just got to stop thinking about it.

Adam: Exactly. Don't think too hard about it. I keep thinking of Capaldi's Doctor in the Davros chair, where he's like, how did I get a cup of tea? Don't think about it.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. But it's true, though. I mean, they could have just gone back to, like, you know, one minute to midnight May 23rd and just, you know.

Adam: Anyway, we'll see how it pans out. There might be a reason we.

Garry: We'll see. We'll see. The other thing I want to talk about was. And there seems to be a thing that's. That's becoming slightly more to the forefront, I think with particularly Shoot his doctrine. This is this whole. The handling of racism in certain things. We had this back in the first season, didn't we, with Dot and Bubble?

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: That was when it really hit viewers in the face in that kind of. I mean, I. I wasn't a fan, not for this reason, but I wasn't a fan of. Of that episode at all. If you remember, back to. To Dot and Bubble.

Adam: I do.

Garry: And what did we rate that, actually? What did we give it?

Adam: I liked it more, a lot more than you. I wasn't the biggest fan, but I seem to remember you didn't really get on board with that episode.

Garry: Yeah. When was that? Last year's schedule. When was. Oh, here we go. Sorry. Dot and Bubble. Yeah, I gave it a three. Crikey.

Adam: Whoa.

Garry: You gave it seven, mate.

Adam: Yeah, seven. Yeah.

Garry: But one thing that was. What was a thing in the episode was especially the ending. Remember the ending? I do, yeah. Bloody hell. But. And they kind of. They're kind of going down that road again a little bit with this. And I'm very appreciative of them doing that because it's kind of unavoidable when you have two people of color trans. Who have traveled to this particular time period in this location. You could not really have done an episode like this and not mentioned it to some degree. So it was a real. I think the Doctor sort of warns Belinda a little bit, doesn't he, at the beginning of the episode. Yeah, you know, about. Because of the time period they're in. Etc. And then it really comes to the forefront a couple of times later when they're in the diner and the Doctor's, like, says to Belinda, you know, this is where segregation was still a thing. So we're not even supposed to be in here at this time. But, you know, know, the, the guy who's working in a diner is fairly chill and he's like, yeah, fine, whatever, and goes over to the white section and chats to one of the, the mums of the lad who's gone missing and so on. And later on, when the, the doctors. Is the Doctor having a hallucination or Lux is playing a trick on them, where.

Adam: Yeah, Lux is playing a.

Garry: That's it. Yeah. And the, the NYP NYPD cop comes in. Because that's how the Doctor spots the ruse, isn't it? It's like they're in Miami, but the cop is NYPD and points the gun and says, you know, so the, the racism stuff, I think it. I. I'm just appreciative that they've. They've handled it in some kind of way because it would have been really weird to go back to this time period and not just be oblivious to it, you know.

Adam: Absolutely, mate. And I mean, Doctor's come under a lot of criticism recently because of, you know, sometimes sledgehammering this sort of thing into a story. But I think in this one, it was nicely weaved in to the story. It didn't feel like we're being hit over the head with it too much. You know, it was just in there enough to make you think and make you realize, you know, where they were and the times were different. The bit where Shooty sort of looked at his hand as if to say, oh, yes, you know, I'm a person of color now. And all this sort of thing, it was. It was just nice little subtle things, but enough to get the message across without being too sort of forceful with it. I actually thought it was. It was weaved into the story.

Garry: Well, yes, agreed. Yep. And what did you think to Reginald Pye then? Played by. What?

Adam: Great name.

Garry: Yeah. And I kind of feel like we didn't really see enough of him. Yeah. Which is, I don't know, a bit of a crossroads in my head, because his character kind of served the purpose where he was a widow and something awful has happened. Obviously, Mr. Ringer Ding has, you know, essentially killed these people, it looks like, to the outside world. But he's actually trapped them on film, hasn't he?

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And. But he's kind of in a sort of perpetual torture where he doesn't want to push back because the character has brought his wife back to life, essentially. He's got a home videotape of him and his wife, and Lux is able to bring her back to, quote, unquote, real life, and he's able to be with his wife again and so on. So it was kind of, again, a bit of a heartbreaking thing in this episode. And so his character served the purpose, but I feel like towards the end of it, when he sacrifices himself, even though Belinda's willing to do it, and we have that lovely moment where his wife has said, you know, come and find me, basically saying, look, you know, on the other side, we'll be together, that kind of thing. And. And he sacrifices himself. I didn't really feel too much for him. I didn't really build too much of emotional connection to that character because he wasn't really in it that much. And I didn't really see enough of him to sort of, you know, get into it that much. But I thought the actor was very good, though. Linus Roach. I thought he was. He was very cool. I just love to have seen that character get his hands dirty a little bit more because he was in it a couple of bits, then you didn't see him for ages. And then right at the end he's like, you know, don't worry, I'll sort it out, you know.

Adam: Yeah. I mean, I liked the character and I did think that was a nice bit of writing, you know, about his wife being in the film and Lux bringing her back to life when they were having the dance and all that. So I did like that element of the story. And I agree with you. I think Linus Roach played the part really well because I liked the character Reginald PI. I think I know what you're getting at. It would have been nice to have had him perhaps a bit more involved in the story, because it was kind of just there when it needed to be. But I liked him. I thought it was a nice part of it. I did like the scenes of his wife, actually. You've just reminded me of some of the stuff when I was trying to think of earlier when I was talking about lazy writing. And actually some of it does hark back to Reginald Pye in terms of. Had questions like, who locked the cinema? How did Reginald Pye survive in there? You know, what was he eating? What was he doing? And also, how did the people who were trapped in the film just magically come back to life? Surely they were burnt. So there were things like that all around, that sort of character, which frustrated me. And again, I'm just going to tell myself to just go with it, but you know what I mean. When I was trying to think earlier about things that didn't quite. If you start sort of questioning, it didn't quite add up. There were a few bits I thought, oh, hang on, what happened there? Yeah, but, yeah, it's a nice, nice character. I like. I like Reginald PI.

Garry: Yeah, but those are just. Again, those are little things, aren't they, where you have to just not. Not think too much for too long.

Adam: Yeah, it's difficult as a DOT two.

Garry: Fan, but, yeah, yeah, there were some cool little references to other things in the episode which I quite liked. Oh, the story. The song, by the way, is called Sad man in A Box.

Adam: Oh.

Garry: And it's from series five and that's what was playing in the fourth wall, the Doctor Who fans moment.

Adam: Yeah. Okay. That's a cool play on. On the title, isn't it?

Garry: Yeah, yeah. And I like the fact that the Doctor talks about Gallifrey, mentions it a little bit. Yes, that was quite nice. It's always cool when. When the Doctor mentions that because it kind of. It kind of Explains a little bit to the companion, especially a new companion, that he's not just, you know, one of many Time Lords, you know, running amok sort of thing. He is supposedly. Other than. Because he does mention the BI generation.

Adam: He does, yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't like that bit. That felt a bit too convenient to me. Like, how can the Doctor just suddenly heal himself? Like, I know they can do it when just after they've regenerated. The 10th doctor said that, didn't he? You know, there's this time period where they're still healing, but stored by regeneration now. Again, a little bit crazy, I know.

Garry: Yeah. So he does mention that. He mentions Gallifrey. He's the last of, of course.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: It was cool that in this week we had the. The episode Blink. The fans say that their favorite episode is Blink.

Adam: Yeah, I like that little gag.

Garry: Yeah. And he's a bit disappointed that they didn't like the one with the goblins and. And all that stuff is quite cool. And. And obviously the Scooby Doo references. He refers himself as Velma, Belinda as Fred and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So there are some cool little nuggets of things dropped in throughout the episode, which is quite cool. And then as we said earlier on, at the end we get the Mrs. Flood bit. That's very intriguing. So, yeah, is there anything else on your notes, dude?

Adam: No, not really. I mean, just to say I'm sort of still. I'm liking the 15th Doctor and Belinda together. I think, again, they're showing good chemistry again. Like you, I found it odd that the whole get home thing seems to have been dropped, but I feel like we're going to come back to that. Some dodgy American accents. That was one of my notes, you know, but that's kind of. I don't mind that. It reminded me of the Daleks in Manhattan. One where everyone's talking a bit like this and, you know. But, yeah, dodgy American accents. What else have I got on my notes? Liked the Blink reference, you said? No, I think I pretty much covered it, actually, mate. Overall.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. Just lastly, for me, I thought it was quite cool that Lux was in the know about the Doctor defeating the toy maker and Sutek. Yeah, yeah, that was quite cool because it shows. It was a. It was a cool way of showing his. What's the word? Omnipresence. All knowing, it's like godlike thing where he's, you know, he's clued up on everything. So that. I thought that was quite cool for his character. But like, you Said earlier, just a shame that he ended up just as a pie in the sky.

Adam: And I have to say, actually, while I remember that Alan Cumming, like you said earlier, was brilliant, actually, great choice of casting to do the voice because he really did bring that character to life, you know, worked. He made the most of what he was given. And again, like I said, I think Alan Cumming could have really. If he'd been given more meat on the bones, he could have really taken that character to some scary places. But he was great with what he was given, I have to say.

Garry: Yeah. Yes. Oh, got one more thing. My notes just turned the page. Sorry. There was a really cool little reference to one of my favorite films ever, Galaxy Quest.

Adam: Oh, yeah.

Garry: Those of you that have not seen Galaxy Quest. So this is again, this is the bit in the fourth wall where the fans are and that she's like, Hassan's like, you know, we are biggest fans. And the other character, Lizzie's like, oh, my God, you're really real. This is so Galaxy Quest. I knew it. I knew it. So those of you that have not heard of Galaxy Quest, it's essentially a film back. I'm sure it's like the early 2000s or late 90s. It's a booth of Star Trek. It's basically my. I won't spoil it for you. It's hilarious. Alan Rickman, Sigourney Weaver and he's the main guy.

Adam: I can't remember the actor's name for years.

Garry: But yeah, Never Surrender. It's. It's such a good film. Anyway, I got that in my notes as the last thing that they mentioned. Galaxy Quest.

Adam: Yeah, I'm just Googling it. I must find out his name.

Garry: He plays Buzz Lightyear. What's his name?

Adam: This is us with names.

Garry: This is us with names again, dude. Frantically googling.

Adam: Tim Allen.

Garry: Tim Allen. There we go. He plays. Yeah. Oh, man.

Adam: 1999, it was. Wow.

Garry: It was the late 90s party.

Adam: Like it's 1999. There you go.

Garry: Oh, man, it's a great film. If you want just a. Just a good laugh for an hour and a half. Galaxy Quest.

Adam: Anyway, I really feel like watching that now.

Garry: Yeah, same. It's amazing, right? Scores. I think it's me to go first.

Adam: It is.

Garry: I'm gonna give this a 6.5 out of 10. I think it was a. I think it was a good. Watch this. I quite like the creativity and a slight change up and doing some wacky things, even though it's not everyone's taste. Yeah, whatever. Quite like the whole fourth wall thing. The Doctor Who fans appreciated that. There was just a few things that didn't quite land for me. So I can't rate it any higher than that. But what about you, dude?

Adam: I'm slightly higher than you. I'm 7.5. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought it's kind of. I want more of this from Doctor Who. Not the same, but I like it when it takes risks and try something new. So, yeah, 7.5. It could have been. I thought this was going to be an 8.5 easily, but it just fizzled out to what it is. The ending didn't land at all. And also the other thing on my notes was all this Honey and babes thing is starting to get on my wick because I really like his shoot. He's the Doctor. But then he starts doing all these high kicks and honey, I'm Belmont. And I'm like, oh, no, it's not for me. But yeah, it was good. I did like it. It's probably might be one of my favorite shooting episodes so far. To be fair. The bar is that high. But this is. Yeah, this is more like it. People have criticized Doctor Who at the moment for not feeling like Doctor Who. This, to me, for the most part, felt like, you know, what I consider good Doctor Who for the most part.

Garry: Yeah. Agreed. Yes. And next week's episode, the. Well, that looks quite a bit darker.

Adam: It does. I don't know much about this. This one not heard much, which is good. Going into it. A bit blind. So. Yeah, quite looking forward to that.

Garry: Indeedy. Niel. Alrighty. And so a 6.5 for me, a 7.5 from him and I think that will conclude. Bud. Our review of Luxon, episode 421.

Adam: Alrighty.

Garry: Thank you. Thank you very much for listening to another episode of the Big Blue Box. That was episode 421. And our review of the episode, luckily, from season two of Shooty's second season and from season two of Shooty's Second Season. You know what I mean?

Adam: I know what you mean.

Garry: Season two, basically. And yeah, so 6.5, 7.5. Next week, the. Well, we'll. We'll see what that one serves up. We'll be back next week, of course, to give you our thoughts on that. In the meantime, make sure you are following or subscribing in your favorite podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss a notification when new episodes drop. And we've also got the monthly roundtables, which are going to resume this month. It's going out this week this for April so stay tuned for that as well. We get the writing team together. We chat all things Doctor Who so make sure you are in for that. You can also listen online, head over to the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk and you can also read all of the reviews and articles from the writing team. We've got some big finish reviews coming up from Jordan this week so get stuck into those. And don't forget to remember to check out my co host channel over on YouTube. It is of course the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: Geeks handbag on YouTube. I'm also on all the socials under the same name. The Geeks Handbag indeed.

Garry: Go check out Adam's stuff and talking to the socials. We're on all of those as well. There are links on the website or just do a search for the big blue box. And we've also got a free Discord server link on the website. Hop in there and chat plenty of Doctor Who with loads of other very cool Doctor Who fans. And having said that, let's wrap it there dude. My name's Garry. My name's Adam and until next time, remember.