Roundtable April 2025: Capitol Cutaway Recap and Thoughts on Season 2 So Far

Garry: Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Maria: My name's Maria.

Matt: My name is Matt.

Jordan: My name's Jordan.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Garry: And welcome to the April Roundtable. We had a yeehaw there. We had a yee haw.

Harry: I wasn't expecting it, but I like it.

Garry: I like it. Yeah, I was gonna say we didn't have a. Don't make me laugh. But we had a yeehaw. That'll do. That'll do. Welcome back, everybody, to another roundtable. It's been. It's been a minute since the last one. We didn't do one last month. Bit busy for that one. That was on me. That's my fault. A little bit busy with some stuff going on. But we are back to talk about a weekend away that we all had recently. We're all in London down in Datdale, London for a. For a Doctor Who convention, which is very cool down at Capitol Cutaway, which we're going to come on to in a second. And then I'm going to get these guys thoughts on the first two episodes so far into season two. See what they thought. The Robot Revolution and Lux. I was going to say flux, then luxury. See what you guys thought to. So that. Before we get on to all that, though. Hope you're doing well, Matt. Have you been, buddy?

Matt: Yes, very well, thank you, mate. Very, very well. Obviously had a. Had a brilliant time with you at the Capitol event, but we'll get on to that shortly. But aside from that, what Doctor Who things have I. Oh, I have. Starting from the train ride up to London, I've been going through. Is it season 20? The. The one that introduces Turlo? I believe it's season 20. Yeah. I'm seeing nodding heads, so I'll. I'll go with confidence. Yeah, it's definitely season 20 and because I. I thought I've said on the pod before that I don't think much of Turlo and I thought I've only seen the Five Doctors and maybe one other with Turlo in it and. And I can't really go on and keep that in my head without giving him a fair chance, you know, to prove otherwise. And so started off from the beginning and I think, you know, he's really grown on me actually. He's miles ahead of Adric in my ranking. Poor old Adric. But yeah, no, I've just been really enjoying that. I've. I think I'm three or four stories through. Yeah, no, I've just got to the Five Doctors, actually. So I'm. I've done season 20 and I'm on the Five Doctor. I just finished the Five Doctors, so I'm intrigued to go on because I haven't watched all of Davison's run. So I'm doing like a start to finish thing. Really, really enjoying it.

Garry: Nice. The Five Doctors. Good story? Oh, yeah, yeah, very good. Maria, how have you been?

Maria: I've. I've been good. It's funny that Matt's talking about season 20 because I. I really kind of thought after coming away from Capitol Cutaway, which I know we're going to talk about, I really fancied seeing a bit of Davison. So I did put on Mord Undead. Now, I think I would say traditionally, it's never been one of my favorite stories, but it was actually. It was actually really nice to sit down and watch it because I haven't seen it for quite a long time. And a lot of what Matt's saying about Turlo kind of resonates with me because I think. I mean, I don't know how old Matt Mark Strixon was when he took the part. I think he was. I think he was early, early 20s, 22, 23. But I think he pulls it off really well, you know, kind of playing that sort of public school. School. School boy, I'm guessing. But yeah, I. I actually enjoyed it, you know, because I haven't seen it for a while and it's obviously got Nicholas Courtney in it as well. It was actually really good to sit down and watch it. So, yeah, I'm wishing Matt all the best with watching Davison. I think he's going to enjoy. I really do. So keep going, Matt.

Matt: Thank you. Yeah, I'll have to let you know how it goes. But yeah, season 20 was. Was very, very good so far, so looking forward to going on.

Harry: Pretty please write an article on it. That'd be really interesting.

Matt: Oh, yeah, good idea. Ooh, watch this space.

Garry: Nice one, guys. Very cool. Harry. How have you been, you little bugger?

Harry: Ey up, Garry. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good, man. Easter was lovely. Our weekend away was fantastic. All of us. Doctor Who has been fun having that back on the tv. I've been reading. I picked up the target novelization of 73 yards, hoping that maybe it might make the TV story make a little bit more sense. And I've been sort of balancing that and also reading Stephen King as well, which I know Matt really loves. And I've been reading more Stephen King, to be honest, I find that way more interesting. But I'll get to the end of 73 yards soon enough. I actually, as well, I went to Waterstones, not planning to buy anything, but obviously that's a lost cause when you go into a Waterstones. I went to the Doctor Who section and there was a copy of Doctor Who in the Daleks which was screaming my name. I have always wanted to own the paperback copy of it. I have the hardback illustrated edition, but I've always wanted a little, tiny, little tiny novella just to sort of hold in my hands and read more easily than this big, bulky illustrated thing. So I bought that, I'm gonna read that. But yeah, I'll get through my Stephen King book first and then I'll make time for my Target novels. First world nerd problems, obviously.

Garry: Yeah.

Matt: What are you on, Harry?

Harry: Which one you want, Stephen King or. I'm reading a book called the Outsider, which is very, very dark, very grim, but very. It's got very intriguing premise, shall we say? So, yeah, listeners, look into it in your own caution. It's very horrible, but it's. But if you like. If you like horror and you like kind of crimey, supernatural stuff, then it's. Yeah, it's really good. I take it you've read the whole thing, Matt?

Matt: Yes. Is it a satisfying payoff? Runs part of a. I don't want to give anything away.

Harry: Okay, okay.

Matt: But it's part of an ongoing series of the Holly Gibney series, and it kind of interweaves through there. But, yeah, definitely what Harry said. It is not for our younger listeners, it's. It's not suitable. But for older listeners, if you haven't checked it out, check it out. It's very, very good indeed.

Garry: Niels and Jordan, how are you, sir?

Jordan: I'm very well, thank you.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: You've been up to anything? Who related since the Capitol?

Jordan: Well, sort of watching it on the TV on. On a Saturday. But the. I think the weirdest thing was I went ghost hunting the other day and we pulled into the car park and I'm like, where do I recognize that field from? I was. It was all these, like, greenhouses in the background. I was like, where do I know them from? And I was like, I'm gonna have to have a look. And I was at the place where, in Revelation of the Daleks, when the sixth Doctor and Perry arrive at tranquil repose, they filmed it at this. It was an air base. It's now a museum, sort of Chichester Way. And I knew that it was filmed down there, but I didn't realize that it was where I was going ghost hunting. And I was like, only I could go ghost hunting and accidentally find a Doctor Who location at the same time.

Garry: Only you, Jord? Yeah. I saw your pics on something. Instagram, I think it was.

Jordan: It was really weird. I was like, I don't know if that's sad or impressive that I recognize that field. I think it's a bit of both.

Garry: To be fair, but, no, it was cool. Yeah, I remember seeing that, thinking, yep, that would be Jordan. I'm doing that. Oh, cool. So, yeah, some. Some. What's the word? Unintentional.

Jordan: Yeah.

Garry: Location. Yeah, yeah, Nice one. Very cool, guys. Let's kick off then, with a bit of a recap. So you heard on the two monthly roundtables before last month, we were saying that we were going to Capitol Cutaway, which is an event run by the Doctor Who Appreciation Society. They also do the. The other big event down in. I think it's been all over the place, but I think it's mainly in Crawley, near Gatwick, I believe. And Maria and Jordan are two big fans of the. The DWASP stuff. Those two.

Jordan: They're so much fun.

Garry: Yeah, you guys, you attend those, don't you? Pretty much every year, I would say. And this one came along and they were like, right, you've got to go, you lot. We won't hear a word about it. You've got to book tickets. So we're like, oh, God, here we go. You know, Maria's like, when she gets. You know, when she gets going. So we're like, oh, God, we better book these, then. So, yeah, booked them. And it turned out to be an absolutely fantastic weekend. It was really cool. So, guys, what did you think? Was this the first Capitol Cutaway event that they've done or they done more previously?

Jordan: This was the first cutaway one.

Garry: Yes. Yeah.

Jordan: I don't know. I don't know why they didn't do it the whole weekend. I think there might have been. I know the last few times there's been issues of, like, the hotels and things that they've been in and. And sort of things. I think maybe. Maybe this year they were like, we'll just ease off on it. But I think they're also preparing because next year's their fifth year.

Garry: Yes, that's right.

Jordan: Or something. So I think maybe they were sort of holding off to do that. And I'm glad that it's back in the hotel in Crawley, actually, because it's that was where it was when I first went. And it's kind of like to me, that's its home. Is that that hotel. So I'm quite glad that it's going back, but I think it just felt more. More akin to sort of a lot of their riverside events, I think, where it was a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more chilled out. And I think the way they organized it was a little bit better where you kind of had. You did all the panels and then you had a break where you could do your photos and your autographs and things. I think it flowed a lot better this time and it actually made you feel like you've done everything. It was quite intense, but you kind of felt like you've done everything.

Garry: So it was a cool one day, wasn't it? It was, yeah, it was. It was like back in the day when he used to go to like some of the big Finnish events or, you know, some of the smaller ones, like the. The ones in Chiswick, what they call it, the Phantom. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was cool. Maria, what was your view on this then versus some of the bigger DWAs ones that you'd been to prior?

Maria: It's a different experience because I think trying to cram a lot into one day, I mean, they kept it, I think, to a reasonable limit on the guests because I think they had 12 guests for the day, which I think is quite substantial in terms of, you know, running the panels, having photographs, you know, and getting autographs and stuff like that. So I think it was definitely manageable. I did enjoy it, I must admit. I thought it was. I. I didn't know what to expect when they said where the venue was. Obviously it's a Polish cultural center, so I wasn't quite sure what to expect, but I thought it was really well organized. You know, it's laid out really well in terms of where things were. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think. I think there was loads of time given to the panels, which was quite nice. And obviously they've had, you know, they had new guests this year from New who. So, you know, that was quite nice. But, yeah, I mean, in comparison, I think, I think the two day event is a different beast because on the Saturday. The Saturdays can be quite frenetic because it's the opening day of the convention and there's a lot going on on the Saturday and then they have the auction the evening. So that's a chance for people to kind of, you know, let their hair down after all the, you know, all the panels have finished and autographs and stuff like that. So I think a two day event is definitely more relaxed. I mean Sundays are always quite good at the convention. That's quite a relaxed affair. So I think there's more time obviously over the two day event to. And, and you know, and they kind of, they kind of theme things around on the different days. So you know you'll have maybe a lot of classic guests on one day and then other classic guests on the other day or new who or whatever. So yeah, it's different beast the two day one. But I think they did really well with the one day one that they did. It was, it was. And what I loved was obviously they had. Everything was kind of on one site so you could sit down in the cafe and you know, and that wasn't too, too far away. There was also a restaurant if you wanted to sit down formally and eat as. So you know there was. Everything was kind of on the one site which was fantastic. I mean I've, you know and I know obviously accommodation was literally across the road as well for people as well if they wanted it. So yeah, I thought it was, I thought for a one day event it was, it was very well done. I mean they would have probably had more people in terms of merchandise and things like that. Normally for the two day they normally have a few more people that, you know, with the marketplace and everything. But yeah, I think it's, it's a different experience but it was definitely, definitely noteworthy. You know I thought it was really well done. So I can't, I can't say anything bad about it really.

Garry: Yeah, it was really well done actually in terms because I've been to some nightmare ones in the past. I've been to a few where you. Yeah. Oh, show. I don't want to say Showmasters. Some of those have been.

Harry: They make enough money.

Maria: Is that the one centre, the show masters.

Garry: It's the ones that are in London at the Olympia too. You know the big London Film and Comic Con.

Maria: The London Film and Comic Con. Yeah. I think my experience at those has been very variable and you know it's literally thousands of people and you're kind of, you know, rushing from one thing to the other. You're in an endless queue. Sometimes, you know, in terms of space though, those things have to fill a lot of space so you know, they obviously have lots of people. You know, it is, it's a mega event, isn't it? And I don't think you're going to get that personal interaction that you might want from a smaller convention. And I, you know, the smaller conventions give you that, you know, if you want, if you want a bit more of a personalized experience or you, or you, you know, if you're going year after year, you're going to meet the same people there. You're gonna, you know, you're, you're gonna get to know people, people that go to the events. You're gonna get to know, you know, the guests, maybe in a, In a bit more of an intimate way. Whereas, you know, Show Masters is a bit of a marketplace and. Yeah, I mean, and you pay extortionate prices for those events as well. I mean, I, When I look at the price of autographs at those events, it's, you know, it, it. We've got a cost of. We've got a cost of living crisis. But that doesn't apply to Show Masters, does it, really? They can charge as much as they want. And so, you know, it's. Yeah, I mean, you, you, you pick your battles, really, with these things. I mean, I've been a few times. I'm not really that keen on them anymore. I've been about three or four times and. Yeah, I think, I think I, I know what it is. I wouldn't go again.

Garry: Yeah, no region. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was more the, yeah, the prices and everything is just. I think it's just the what they are these days, I think. The bigger cons, I think. Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty, pretty huge. And yeah, it was more the organizational side of things for me with some of the Show Masters things. So the DWAs managed to do a very smooth running day where they very sensibly had panel talks, then the break with photo shoots and autographs and then back for panels. And it was. Yeah, it was, it was good. But you also felt like you had room to sort of go off for a drink if you wanted to, a bit of lunch, still do things and, and everything. And there's some lovely people there as well. Matt and Harry. I'll get your views in just a second. But a friend of yours, Maria and Jordan, I believe, Joe, he was our companion, wasn't he? He was a honorary big Blue Box team member, turned out for the weekend. And he's such a cool guy. So it was, it was lovely to sort of hang out with him and get his opinion on. On Dr. Who and, and just have a laugh and stuff, so. And we met some other cool people as well. There was my. The names escaped me, so I'm Very, very sorry, but there was a gentleman that came up while we were waiting for photos, and he was there with his son and said that they were listeners of the Big Blue Box and they enjoyed the podcast and. And to say hello. So it was great to meet you. I'm very sorry, I'm terrible with names. It's not, you know, I'm like that with everybody, so thank you very much. And there was a couple of other people as well, that when we were sat down, they came over and said, oh, you're from the Big Blue Box. It's very cool. So from that perspective, it was great. The attendees were all chill and lovely and everyone got on and it was lovely. So, yeah, very cool. So, Harry and Matt, you were in the same boat as me, I believe. This was all our first sort of DWAS event, I think. And so, yeah, I'd like to hear about you guys.

Harry: I'll go first, shall I, Matt?

Jordan: Yep.

Harry: So, yeah, it was a really good day and I think what it just felt like a great big group of friends. Not all of us knew each other, but it just felt like, you know, we were all hanging out all day and it felt really chill and unlike the kind of conveyor belt feeling of like, the Showmasters events, it just felt really comfortable. You know, we were all lounging around in the theater, like, watching the. Watching the panels and stuff. And the panels were fantastic. Every single panel was absolutely brilliant. Some of them were hilarious, particularly the actors names escaped me, so maybe one of you guys could help me out here. But the Movellen from Destiny of the Daleks and that guy from Terror of the Vervoids, those guys, I wasn't expecting their panel to be absolutely hilarious, but it was. It was great.

Jordan: You got the name, which we can't actually repeat. No.

Matt: Peter Straker and Simon Slater, that's them.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: Yeah, they were so funny.

Jordan: It was a good one.

Harry: They were really good. And, yeah, honestly, it would have been worth it just for that. It just so happened that there were a few autographs of photographs I wanted to get, but I could have quite happily have just turned up, watched the panels, hung out with you guys, and had a really just perfect day out, to be honest. So it was lovely that Dewas put on a really good event. And, you know, unlike Hooverville, you know, which I love, and I'm gonna go back this year, it was nice to kind of feel like I'd sort of done everything so, like, I could see all the panels and I could, like, have my autograph aperture Opportunity. Photograph Opportunity. Go around. The traders, they didn't have very many traders, but, you know, there were some cool little stands there. And, yeah, it was just a fab weekend. And particularly for me, it was my first time actually going to the Riverside studio because we went to the. The bar the night before and I, for some reason, I must have not been paying enough attention, but I didn't realize that it was actually the Riverside studio that they had filmed Doctor Who in the 60s. So I was. I was like, that was really, really cool. And it was just. Yeah, it was just great to hang out with you guys, really. That's the kind of biggest takeaway. Like, it was nice to actually kind of meet up and just hang out and say things that we couldn't say on the podcast because there were lots of expletives. But, yeah, no, it was great. It was a great weekend. Definitely one to remember.

Maria: That's just Garry with all the exclusives.

Harry: Garry and his.

Jordan: I'm just impressed I managed to get us there with my really bad directions.

Matt: Yes.

Jordan: Go this way. Go. Go down. Go down.

Maria: Yeah, I think go this way. Yeah. No, it was lovely to see you all kind of in London town. So, you know, and it was, it was good. I'm really glad we ended up at the Riverside Studios as well, because that's. That's quite iconic. So, you know, it's. It's. I'm really glad that you managed to see that and kind of, you know, get a sense of the history of that place.

Garry: It was very cool. Riverside was amazing. Yeah.

Harry: And it was a lovely night as well. Like, it was lovely weather. Like, the sunshine was gorgeous. Like, I, you know, I don't want to be that one to talk. Resort to talking about the weather, but everything about it was just. Chef's kiss. It was great.

Jordan: Yeah, it was good weather.

Garry: It was.

Matt: Yeah, it was.

Garry: Matthew, what are your. Your thoughts on meeting our miserable faces for the first time and.

Matt: And all that, you miserable lot? Yeah, I. I have to say, listeners, that they're just as miserable. They one absolute lovely bunch of people. And like Harry was saying, like, the. The Capitol Cutaway was. Was amazing. But the highlight of it, the absolute highlight was meeting these lovely, lovely friends that I've made through this brilliant podcast, if I do say so, if I do say so myself in the flesh, and just, you know, spending a few days with them and just, you know, just chatting, chatting about all things Doctor Who or not, and just. Just really just having an amazing time and lovelier people you cannot meet and. Yeah, I just, I came away, I had a four hour train journey home and I was just beaming the entire way. It was just, it was just such a lovely experience. And yeah, you miserable lot went. Weren't that bad either. But no, the Capitol Cutaway that was, it was such a, it was my first ever convention where it wasn't a local one to me and I'm in Devon, you could probably tell by my accent that slips sometimes or as Garry found out quite a lot more when I've had a few to drink. Yeah, the old tractor comes out a bit more frequently but this was my first proper convention that I'd been to and it was so well organized to the tea. It didn't feel rushed. It didn't you. I, because I saw, just as a point of reference, I saw the, I think it was LFCC where Shooty Gatwa was in attendance and his cue was just, you know, like exaggerating but like a mile long and, and people were just coming in and it was like two seconds maximum and it was like hi, snap, bye. And then, and then it was just straight in, straight out, straight in, straight out. And that's what I was thinking. It was, you know, gonna be that, that was just the norm and it was just so much better. It was, you know, you got, you go in, you sit down, you say hi and you have a little chat and what was really lovely is because it was such a relaxed atmosphere the whole day, even the guests, you know, they'd hang around afterwards and if, you know, you were pleasant you could have, you know, a chit chat and just, just find out a little bit more and, and just just you know, be, be around these, these awesome people and, and like was previously mentioned I got a shout out to Joe who I'd never met before, Jordan and Maria's friend. Absolute top quality man he was, he was brilliant all weekend, wasn't he? And looking forward to meeting him again.

Maria: So he won't mind saying that.

Harry: He's just so funny and so nice. Such a nice guy.

Matt: Yeah, absolute legend. We'll have to see if Garry will bring him on one day and we can do that, we can do that in person on here. And also Adam Mamoun who I've known online but never in person and what a lovely, lovely chap he is. And we spent Riverside Studios an evening with him and Joe and all of us and it was just the nicest time. Honestly, just, I can't quite put it into words, although I've said quite a lot but it Was just. It was just such a lovely weekend and. Yeah, I can't wait for the next one.

Garry: Indeed. Yeah. Thank you very much, AD Tall AD as we call him. Thank you very much, Joe. And do you guys add what I'll add? Yeah. And you guys, you're all on top form. You're all absolutely wonderful to, to be with for the weekend and, and, and just geek out on Doctor Who and other bits and bobs and have a drink. It was just so nice. And thank you very much to the.

Maria: Can I just say I'm really impressed at how much you guys can drink. Can I just say that? I mean, blimey, you know, I'm sitting there with my one Baileys with ice and you guys just kind of. Keep going, keep going, keep going.

Garry: Years of practice. Yeah.

Matt: The memories of me, Harry and Garry waltzing down the streets of London doing Harry and Hagrid impressions will be with me for.

Jordan: I don't remember that.

Garry: What? Yeah, that was funny.

Harry: I didn't think I had that.

Matt: Do you not remember?

Harry: No.

Garry: What?

Matt: Oh, wait.

Harry: Oh, I think it's coming back to me, actually.

Matt: Yeah.

Harry: We were also singing. There's always a twist at the end. There's always a. Insert something at the end all weekend.

Matt: Yeah. If you were in the Hammersmith area, you didn't need to meet us, you could hear us.

Garry: Yeah. Apologies to the residents of the Hammersmith area, but it was very cool and a big thank you to the guys at the TOAS as well for putting on a. A very well organized and smooth and lovely day. So tickets are on sale now. A bit of a plug for those guys. Tickets are on sale now, I believe, for next year's 50th anniversary capital event. So I think at the moment the consensus is that we'll all be going. I think that's what we're all aiming for at least anyway, for us to get around there next year. So as we've done with this one for the cutaway event, we'll. We'll plug it intermittently and try and get as many people there. I'm sure it will sell out. This one sold out. And I think most of their events do, so it should be rather good. So that was the. The weekend away, the, the big blue box, jolly as it were. Let's bring. Let's bring the conversation back to the here and now. So two episodes have landed for season two thus far, the Robot Revolution and Lux Adam, my co host, and myself on the regular podcast have already put our thoughts out. So I'm not going to Dive in too much here. So I want to hand the floor over to you guys and see what you guys. Not to go into too much detail for each individual, each episode individually, but what did you think of season two so far? Did you think the opening episode was worthy of a season opener? Did it kick off the. The series in the usual fashion that you would expect it to, or was it a bit flatter than that? And are we already on an upward trend with episode two? Did you guys enjoy it or did you not leave it up to you? So, Jordan, over to you first. What's your. What's your feeling for season two so far?

Jordan: I'm enjoying it. I think it's been fun and I think that's what Doctor Who needs to be is fun. I wasn't. I wouldn't say. I thought Robot Revolution was like, a big, you know, massive way of bringing the series back. But then, you know, New Earth is a bit rubbish, Smith. You know, all the openers tend to be a little bit kind of singing and they kind of get better. I thought it was fine. I thought it was fun. I can see people kicking off about Planet of the Incels and all this, that and the other. But, hey, you know, it's a. That's a small little thingy on Twitter that, you know, they'll be the ones to kick off about it. And I. I know there are people on this podcast who did not enjoy it, but I really enjoyed Lux. I thought it was quite fun. I thought it was different. It was wacky, it was. It was fun. I don't really know how else to describe it. I'm just. I've had fun with the last two episodes, I think. I think sometimes people, I think, are getting a little bit angry when they don't need to be. But that's. That seems to be a very, very particular group of people online.

Matt: But I know.

Jordan: I think it's fine. And I like. I like Belinda with the Doctor, and I really liked how at the end of Robot Revolution, he's really trying to, like, charm her into staying, and she's like, no, no, I want to go. And then when he realizes the charm isn't working, he switches. And there was a couple times where he, like, really, like, glared at her and really kind of was like, you're really starting to irritate me now. And then there was a couple of times in Lux where he kind of snapped at her. He was sort of basically told her, I'll get over it, and this, that and the other. And it was like, oh, that's kind of like. It was kind of like a bit of a darker Doctor than I think. You know, most of the time he's funny and bubbly and kind of whatever, but he did feel that. He has felt a little bit darker this series. And, I mean, Rusty Davis put it in Doctor Who magazine that Belinda's kind of styled, modelled and styled after Tegan in that she doesn't want to be there, and then she'll gradually start to enjoy herself. And I can see that. And I'm not just saying that because Tegan's my favorite companion, but I can see that that's what they're doing because they have that kind of friction where she'll tell him off and he'll tell her off, and I quite like that. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I think it's fine.

Garry: You're enjoying it. Cool.

Jordan: Yeah, I think maybe next year it will have a break because I don't think they've filmed anything yet, but I don't think it's not being canceled. I think that's just people really being horrible for the sake of being horrible about it.

Garry: Yeah, Okay.

Jordan: I think that's a topic we could talk about forever, but it's. I just think it's a certain group of people on Twitter or X or whatever people want to call it, that are just really angry about it for no reason. And, okay, the stories aren't as good as they were, but, you know, you show me a TV show that's lasted 61 years, that hasn't kind of had periods that aren't as good as other ones and. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah, that makes sense. Yep. Yeah, I totally get that. There's definitely a subset of fans who are. Yeah. Wanting that to happen, which is a shame, because it's.

Jordan: It's. It's all of our favorite shows, so why. Why would you be like, oh, Dr. Who needs to be canceled, and all this, that the other. When it's your favorite, you know, why. Why are you kind of wishing it away? I mean, the BBC don't care because you're watching it and they're getting viewing figures. So it's like, well, the BBC are like, whatever, but, yeah, you know.

Garry: Yeah. Make a good point, though. It's definitely like a little echo chamber of people that are doing that stuff. Stirring a pot a little bit. No reader. Okay, so a bit of a thumbs up from Jordan. Yeah. So far. Harry, what are your. What are your feelings so far? You know, that the red herring, you know, or back in my day when I watched Doctor Who. It was all peak viewing figures. And I liked it back then. And she liked it, didn't she? Her indoors. And we watched it together and it was brilliant.

Harry: Now it's just not golden age anymore, Garry. It's just not golden age. No, I mean, you know what? Jordan summed it up perfectly about, like, not wanting to almost wish Doctor Who away, because I'll be completely honest, my overriding thoughts on season two so far is just. It feels tired. It feels like it's just kind of lumping along a little bit. That, that, that is.

Matt: Yeah.

Harry: God, honest truth, that's how I feel about it. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to hate this. Like. And also, it's not bad. It's not terrible. Like, it's, It's. There are lots of things that I liked about the first two episodes, which I'll get onto in a moment. But yeah, I, I mean, especially watching the Robot Revolution, I just kind of thought, oh, here we go. Another season opener. Another, you know, new companion. Oh, another season arc. I just. I found myself, like, not. Not really caring as much. And I feel like. Yeah, I know that we've. A lot of people have said it before. I've said it before, but rest it. It. I honestly feel like it needs to be rested for a while and it needs to come back with different writers and it needs to have some kind of spark again, some kind of fear factor again, because, you know, particularly episode two, Mr. Ring a Ding, that cursed 3D animation that he turned into, they could have done a lot more with that, but they just didn't. And, yeah, I don't know, it just feels. It just feels tired and I, I don't want to hate it. I don't hate it, but. You're laughing.

Garry: Carry on, Harry. Carry on, Harry.

Harry: Okay, so what I liked about episodes one and two.

Matt: What?

Garry: Anyone. Anyone that's listened to. To the weekly podcast that went out yesterday. You'll know why we're laughing when we say the name Mr. Ring a Ding. My co host, Adam, dropped a bit of a. A bit of a. A weird one, calling him something slightly different, but also at the same time, very different. Different. So, carry on, Harry. We're very sorry.

Harry: It's. It's. It's all right. Yeah, no, I really like Mr. Dingling. I thought, you know, he really added something to it. But, yeah, things. Things I liked. So I think. I think Belinda's a really cool companion. I think that I. I just like the fact that she's A bit. A bit of a dick. Like, she's. She's kind of like, you know, doesn't. Doesn't. How can I put this? Like, she. She doesn't take the doctor's crap, basically, you know, like. Like him trying to charm her and, like, testing her DNA. And like, she quite rightly said, oh, that. That's a bit uncomfortable kind of thing. And, yeah, more of that. I think that's really cool. And something really unique and interesting, especially because, like, him and Ruby, there was kind of no conflict in that relationship. So if we can have a bit more of that, that'd be really cool. And Vera de Sethu plays the part really well, I feel. And I loved the kind of swings that Lux took in terms of, like, the. The animated section. I mean, I wish it was a little bit longer, but. Well, obviously we had a lot of Mr. Mr. Digneling being, you know, animated and stuff. He was really cool. It's nice they have the budget to do that nowadays. And I also really like the fan scene as well. I know a lot of people really didn't like that scene, but I thought it was cool. Apart from the absolutely cursed way that they organized their DVDs, why did they have a John Pertwee box set, followed by William Hartnell, followed by a Peter Davison, and, like, they mixed and matched their vanilla releases with their series box sets? I was like, what kind of serial killer Doctor Who fan are you?

Matt: But fake fan. Fake fan.

Harry: Fake fans. Yes. You could tell. It was obviously just put together by a BBC props department. But, yeah, no, I mean, they were fine. They were, you know, both episodes, you know, were fairly entertaining. I didn't hate them. They just feel kind of tired. But I'll enjoy what I can of the rest of this series.

Garry: I see. Okay, well, that's not. That's not bad either. Yeah. Seems to be mostly enjoying it. Good, good. That's good. Maria, the biggest modern who fan of all of us. Maria, if you haven't. If you. This is your first round table roundtable. Just a bit of a summary. Maria hates anything to do with Doctor Who pre 2005. So if you talk to Maria about classic Doctor Who, you're liable to get a swift one across the chops. So she's just modern who through and through. So you must be loving this. Maria, what are your thoughts?

Maria: Oh, you're getting so. You're getting so much mileage out of this, Garry. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna let you just carry on okay, look. Okay, I'm gonna. I, I do like Modern who. I. I do. It's different to classic. I've always said that it's different, but. Yeah, I mean, the first two episodes, I kind of agree a little bit with Harry. I think, I think there is a little bit of tardness in the series, I think because Russell T. Davis is writing a lot of the scripts himself. I think, you know, there's a, There's a lot of stretch in some of the stories. There's, there's, there's not enough. And I, I think it's maybe the, the, the, the episode length. You know, I think with a lot of, A lot of these stories, they need a bit more time to kind of develop. So I'm, I, I have to be honest, when, when I was watching the Robot. Robot Revolution. Revolution, I was just glad that it wasn't like space babies, because I really didn't like space babies last series. So I think there was a relief that it wasn't. That it was actually a lot better than that. I think there's a. I feel quite mixed about the series. There's bits that I really like and I think. And then there's other bits that I don't. I still think there's a bit of ego and a bit of. A bit of, you know, RTD still kind of putting his issues into the stories where I don't think they need to be. You know, I mean, last week's the Robot Revolution, we had the young guy that was meant to be an incel. Is that what they call them? So, and to be honest, that wasn't really developed well enough for me in terms of whether he was or whether he wasn't. I just find some of the, the writing sometimes is a bit brash and a bit abrupt in terms of, you know, the themes that he wants to put in. I mean, like this week, Belinda said something about Rock Hudson. You know who. Rock Hudson had a fantastic film and television career. He was a, he was a idol of cinema, you know, a beaut. As, as the Doctor says, he was a beautiful man. And, you know, the only thing that kind of Belinda was talking about was obviously how he died and, you know, and that kind of stuff. And I, I really don't like that because I think, you know, you should kind of. You should kind of appreciate people for the things that they do when they're alive, not how they died, you know, so I didn't, I didn't really like that. But there are some good things in, in the Stories. I mean, some of the visuals look fantastic. I mean, I think series two is where they've probably spent the majority of the money so far. I mean, the Robot Revolution looked. Looked very glossy. I mean, in. In some respects I, I did think to myself, and this is something I said to someone else, it does look very Disney the first two episodes. And although there's bits that I'm enjoying in the stories, I. I find myself a bit distanced from it because it does look so glossy and it is kind of a little bit Disney. I don't know how to describe it, but I do feel a bit. A bit of distance from it. As a fan, you know, I do prefer stories a little bit more gritty, I suppose, and it does feel a bit gloss over substance a little bit. I mean, in regards to the characterization. I mean, last week Shooty's interpretation annoyed me a little bit because he was doing. I mean, there was one bit, he did a high kick at one point, which was a bit kind of. And it was all like yah Queen and all this kind of stuff. And you know, that really annoyed me because he felt a bit campy. Last week he seemed to settle down. This week he had a more serious kind of story. And I actually enjoyed those quieter moments, you know, when he was in the diner and he was talking with the mother who had lost her son or her son had disappeared. You know, when he's quieter, he seems to. To. I don't know whether he's just got a better handle of the character this series, but I actually preferred it when he was a little bit quieter and he seemed. It seemed he had more serious content and, you know, and he was a bit more of the Doctor I found in this week's story in Lux. I. I enjoyed parts of the story. I thought he was good in it. Last week he was a bit too campy and I don't know, this is. There's this swing of the writing so much in the series. It really depends on the writing. Things I. Things I didn't like. They killed the cat last week, which I kind of. I kind of thought, did they really do that? And they did. They killed a cat. And then that's what they. So I will say about Lux. I really enjoyed Luxury this week. I enjoyed it up to about the 30 minute mark. And then obviously you had the bit with the Doctor Who fans, which I think kind of just broke that spell because we were obviously in 1952, 1952America. And it kind of broke the spell of that. And I I didn't like it. I didn't like the dialogue. I thought it was a bit. I didn't see the point of having them in there. You've got, you've got this fantastic episode, which I must say the visuals and the animation was absolutely top notch. I would say it was fantastic for the episode. And I think I would have really loved to have seen this story as a two parter because I think it kind of deserved it. You know, if you're going to go all out and have animation and you've got people, you've got animators who did, you know who have done films like, you know, who. Who is it? What's the name of that film with Bob Hoskins?

Garry: Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Maria: That's the one. Yeah. Sorry, I was trying to remember it. But apparently they had the animator that did for this story that did that story. And you can see the love and care that they kind of had in that animation. I mean, some of that animation was fantastic. I would have loved to have seen more time spent on that story in 1952. But they spent four and a half minutes on a segment with Doctor Who fans and I did feel like RTD was having a dig at us fans. You know, I've always been a classic who fan and you know, and I don't like that kind of meta referencing that they do. You know, when the show kind of refers to itself. I don't think it needs to do that. You know, I don't, I don't think it needs it. It needs to have really good stories that, you know, take an audience with you. And I think, yeah, it's, you know, we're, we're fans and we're obviously watching the, watching the episode. But you know, for the casual viewer, you know, what, what sense does having that in their makeup really? You know, you need a seamless story that follows through. And they had, it had such a good build up this week on that story. I mean, it was creepy. You know, you had, is it Linus Roach as the projectionist? I mean, there was some fantastic direction in the story. You know, the close ups of the projector, the projectionist, the film reels. I mean, who, when they saw that, that room with all the film reels, I mean, my mind went automatically to Classic who, you know, so, you know, there's a lot of kind of really nice kind of visuals in it. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's been good so far. I mean, I'm, I'm hoping that it's going to get better. You know, next week looks quite creepy. So yeah, I'm, I've got, I've got hopes for this series, you know, especially because there's new writers coming in, you know, that we'll see something different. Because I think, I think rtd, you know, he, he doesn't need to be writing all the scripts himself. I mean, you know, he's stretching some of those ideas and you know, they need a lot more development. I think, you know, you need either a longer episode time or you need to kind of make it, you know, not kind of stretch the stories out so much because there's some good ideas. But yeah, I, I, I think, you know, some of the characterization needs developing. I mean, last week a lot of the supporting characters were pretty, you know, were pretty, you know, one, one note. Really?

Garry: Yeah, yeah, no, I read you. It's, it's often one of those things where, especially when you're only a couple of, when you're only a couple of episodes in and you think, right, okay, even if you, you weren't fully on board with them, you're like, we've got the rest of the series to go, so you've probably what, we got six episodes left. That sounds like hardly, guys. That sounds like hardly anything at all. Like I've been re watching some, some US based TV shows over the last year or so and like you're eight episodes in and you're just getting warmed up. You know, it's like when you get to episode 19, you're like, oh God. And you've still got three or four episodes to go after that and you think, bloody hell. So yeah, it feels really like a fleeting moment, doesn't it? These shorter eight episode series. I don't know, it's just gone in a, in a blink. Excuse the pun.

Maria: I don't, I don't know if it's, if it's a bit of a curse.

Garry: Maria, we can't hear you.

Maria: Oh, sorry. Can you not hear me? Okay, technical glitch.

Matt: You put it another way, we are a quarter way through the series already.

Garry: We're a quarter of the way. Yes, exactly.

Matt: So depressing.

Garry: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. In one way it does have its advantages because you're, you're, you're hopefully removing any opportunity for those sort of plotty episodes and the padded ones that you sometimes get that we have had definitely in seasons past. But if they don't all land and they don't all hit the mark, then I don't know but so, yeah. Maria, are you back with us or have you still got.

Maria: Can you hear me?

Garry: There you go.

Harry: Yay.

Maria: Yeah, no, I was going to say, I. I don't know whether it would have been better if they'd maybe had. So there's either two ways of doing this. They could have had either four stories that were two parters. So, you know, self contained. Four part. Four. Four stories with two episodes. Or maybe had one continuous story all the way through that is really tightly scripted. You know, a bit like Flux. If you're going to have eight episodes, maybe it's better to do a series like Flux and have one overarching theme. I mean, saying that I don't know how I feel about all these gods appearing again. I mean, obviously. I mean, Lux was a weird one because he came in through moonlight and then apparently he could be dissipated by too much light, which I didn't quite get. I don't think that really kind of landed for me in terms of a resolution. I mean, it sounded quite nice. And I don't know, I've kind of listened to a couple of other podcasts and they were talking about religious allegory, you know, because the doctor was kind of suspended by film. Film reels in the kind of like almost like a crucifix position and obviously, you know, light of God and all of that. So I don't know if there was anything religious in. In the writing, but yeah, as a resolution, I wasn't too keen on it. I. I mean, yeah, I think it could have been done maybe slightly differently, but. And all this fourth wall breaking is still a bit annoying. I mean, Mrs. Flood is still there in the background and kind of. It's all like portents of doom for the 24th of May. So I'm kind of. I'm kind of wondering, is she meant to be the Big Bad or something? You know, is she coming back in the finale and is she going to be the Big Bad? But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about this gods thing. I mean, they. They obviously brought back a reference to the toy maker. So hopefully Russell's going to wrap that up this. This series.

Garry: Okay.

Maria: I don't. I don't know.

Garry: I see. So lots of unanswered questions for Maria. She wants answers and Russell's not providing. We shall see if. How. So just quickly, guys, is there anything that you particularly want to see in the remaining episodes of this season? Is there anything that you're like, right, I think we absolutely have to have this thing or I really want to see this thing. Is there any character that you want to see come back? Regardless of if it's Mrs. Flood coming back as an old character or just a character in general that you want to see come back? Because we do have that typically, don't we, in series of Doctor Who, where they inevitably have a cameo from, from somebody. Or it could just be a, you know, a moment or two. Just a quick round the table. Harry, is there anything that you particularly want to see?

Harry: Susan. Bring back Susan. I feel like they were setting that up in the first season. So, yeah, I think we should have a cameo from Susan. That'd be cool.

Garry: Agreed on that one, bud. For sure. Matthew, anything you want to see? I know what you want to see. You want to see Dalek put together with. Yeah. How is the dark?

Matt: It's looking very well. He's looking very well. He's. I'll just show you.

Garry: Listener. We've got a demo. Oh, we've got the top part. Okay. Ice stalk. Very good.

Matt: Yep, he's looking pretty, he's getting pretty heavy now as well. Just for a head. And I'm so far behind. I'm only on, like, episode, episode number seven or something, and I've got up until like, 15 here, so I need to crack on, really. But no, I, I, I know there's, there's not much time left, but I will just say quickly what I thought of the series so far.

Garry: Hold on, have we not done yours yet? We're not done your.

Matt: Not, not yet, but I'll just be quick.

Garry: Oh, no, sorry, dude. Away you go.

Matt: No, sorry. No, that's all right. I was just gonna say hate the lot. Nice and simple, short and sweet.

Garry: He's review. He hates the lot.

Matt: No, you don't. Of course I don't. No, I, I came into this series with not great expectations and I don't know about anybody else, but not the same feeling that you normally get with a new season of who. Like the whole, I don't know, you almost, you get like, like, like, bit fizzy when it's, when it's coming up, you know. You know, Doctor Who's on the way and it's all a bit exciting. Didn't really get that this time. I was like, well, yeah, new season of Doctor Who, that'd be cool. Hopefully it's better than last time. Not say last season was particularly bad. It just, there was a few, you know, not so great episodes. But anyway, pleasantly surprised. Absolutely pleasantly surprised. And because I think I came in with such low expectations. I was, I was so happy to see it's not the best series opener, but RTD's openings never are. Let's be honest. He's famous for not having the best openers and then just getting better and better with the episodes as they go on. You look at like, like you say Smith and Jones and, and even like Rose or the Partners in Crime one, they're okay, but there's so much better that's come from him further down the line. So it's not particularly the most standout episode. Robot Revolution. I must say I didn't really. Everyone's loving Belinda and I didn't really warm to her the first, the first episode that much. I thought, go, you're a bit annoying. And then, and then I rewatched it and I thought, actually it's a. It's much different from Ruby and where she challenges him. And because of the age difference between Ruby and Belinda, I think it's such a. Actually such a refreshing take because we don't normally have it. Although saying that this episode, it kind of throws that out the window. You've got her going, you know, being really kind of take no prisoners, I'm not falling for your tricks sort of thing. And then by the end of it, you know, she's kissing his hand and saying, you know, I'm really sorry, I shouldn't have not trusted you and I trust you now and blah, blah, blah. I think maybe that could have lasted an episode or two longer. But then again, with the shorter episodes, I suppose they gotta speed through a few things. And that just so happened to be one of the things that they had to wrap up quickly. Speaking of the episode length, you can tell all the way through these two episodes that both of them needed to be longer. The 43 minutes is just not enough for. Especially with the, with the bigger budgets and, and you, you can see that there's more story to tell on, on each episode, it feels crammed, you know, and a lot of things don't have time to breathe or to be explained fully. So when, say, Lux in this one in, in, sorry, the second episode, it, he was, you know, becoming like more monster fied and, and, and becoming a person. And he looked, he looked amazing when he was becoming this sort of like, horrific creature. But then it was all over and done and, and that ending would have been fine had you had the sort of big showdown right before that, but it was kind of ready for a big showdown. Ready for a big showdown. Oh, he's gone. You know, which kind of. That was the only downer that I would have for that episode because I thought Lux was absolutely amazing. One of. I'd probably say it was my favorite shooty episode so far. It just. It. Apart from the ending I loved every minute of was just from. I loved the. The feel from the 1950s. I loved the big Chuck Berry fan. So when Rollover Beethoven started playing, I thought, this is an episode I'm gonna love. And I did. And. And I thought everything was handled really nicely. Like, obviously, you've got the Doctor and Belinda, two people of color in the 1950s. It's gonna. You need to address it somehow. Are you gonna shoehorn it in? Like, really bluntly? Like, maybe sometimes it might have happened. Previously on Other Things. Not, you know, trying to slate anything, but, you know, it was done really, really nicely. Really sincerely, but carefully done. And I thought Lux was amazing. What a character. What a different. Different side of Doctor Who that we just haven't done before. It was. It was absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I couldn't fault it. And just the ending and I, I. The controversial part with the. Coming into the. To the who fans, I loved it. I thought it's a bit like when you're. I know on the. Across the pond, there's quite a big thing about getting roasted and they do, like, these things where you say, you know, they have. They have a roast where basically you get mocked and it's all one big laugh. And I kind of. I kind of saw it a bit like that. You. There's a bit of turning tongue. Tongue in cheek about it all. But at the same time, I can take the fact that, you know, we are Doctor Who fans, sometimes we can be a bit eccentric and we, you know, we're. We're very enthusiastic people about the thing we love. And I think it was done nicely, to be honest. There was a few things, like RIP Doctor Who and that sort of thing. And you just think, like, Russell's having a dig. But it still worked for me. But I will wrap up because I am just full of words. But, yeah, one thing I'd love to see Daleks, I actually. And I knew you'd said it, and I thought, guys, he's got it. But no, I'd actually love to see Daleks because it does feel like. I know it's a new era, but it just feels like we've gone sort of series 11 where it was no new villains, no old, old villains sort of thing. And it. And it kind of lacked something. Bring the new Villains in by all means, for like seven out of the eight episodes. But give us that one. It's still Doctor Who. It's still, you know, here's the Cybermen, here's the Daleks. Don't overuse them so much. So we get so sick and tired, like Time Lord Victorious. But a Dalek story now would be perfect, especially something as dark as, say, like Robert Sherman's Dalek or, you know, some of the big Finnish Dalek stories, they really take it. The eleventh Doctor adventures with Jacob Dudman, they took the Daleks and made them scary again. I'd love to see that actually televised. So, yeah, Daleks for me. Anyway, I'll stop talking now.

Garry: No, no, cool. Very cool. So you're enjoying this season quite a lot, which is cool.

Matt: Yeah.

Garry: Jordan, what would. Is there anything that you would like to see new or return or just something cool?

Jordan: I agree with Matt. I'd like to see the Daleks and I think it would be such a shame if every other Doctor has got to meet the Daleks, but shoot, he doesn't.

Garry: Yeah, that's a good point, I think.

Jordan: I think that would be a shame.

Garry: Yeah, no, I would agree with that. So, Harry, Susan, Matt, the Daleks. Jordan, the Daleks before Ghost. Maria. Just quickly, Harry, you and I, when we were at Capitol Cutaway, we were sat together watching somebody and I said to you beforehand that they're going to let slip, because they always do. Was it Anita Dobson or was it somebody else?

Harry: It was Anita Dobson. Yes.

Garry: Yes, it was Anita, wasn't it? And she made a very quick passing comment about the Daleks and I looked at you and I was like, there you go. That's your. That's the thing that she's let slip because she does it all the time.

Harry: Yes.

Matt: They're not like, she looked red and.

Harry: The interviewer was like, oh, so does that confirm the Daleks her back? And she's like, I'm not saying anything. Like, it kind of like she sort of like, let something slip that she shouldn't have. So, yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

Garry: Exactly. Yeah, you guys could get your wish. But I agree. I think Shooty should go up against the Daleks before he's unceremoniously tossed out of the. Out of the studio into the street and see you later. Maria, very quickly, over to you for the last thing. Anything that you want to see in the remaining six episodes.

Maria: Oh, gosh. A satisfying resolution. I don't know, it's really. It's really hard because we don't know. You know, we don't know how the series is going to end. I mean, obviously there's lots of rumors around, you know, what might be happening at the end of the series. So I don't know. I. I'm just gonna. I'm looking forward to seeing what these scripts are by the other writers. So I'm not sure. Not sure.

Garry: Gotcha. Yeah, Cool. Yeah. Do you know what? I'm up for that as well, seeing what other people bring to the table because we've had, throughout season one and these two, we've had a lot of Russell scripts and he's not really the mark in all of them like he did before. So let's see, let's see. Anyway, so all in all, I think we're quite enjoying season two so far. Let's fingers crossed. Let's hope that continues throughout the rest of the season and we get some Daleks and we get Susan back and for Maria's sanity, we get a decent script soon and a decent resolution, etc. And on that note, fam, let's end it there for the April Roundtable. Thank you so much for listening to another month of the Round Table. Goodness, insert adjective there. Nonsense, waffle, insights, whatever you want. It's always fun doing a round table with these guys. I love it. I love hearing your thoughts and your points of view on everything. So thank you much, very much, guys for taking the time out to do this. As always, make sure you are following or subscribing in your podcast app of choice, so that way you don't miss a notification when these Roundtable episodes drop into your app and give that a good old listen. You can also listen on the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk and you can check out the reviews and articles from this lot while you are there. There are also links to go off to the social stuff and a link to our free Discord server. So hop in there and chat Doctor Who with some other cool Doctor Who fans. There's always a discussion, a debate, a bit of merch from Matt, all that stuff going on in there. So go and check all that stuff out. Once Maria's sorted herself out, we will do outro. I think she just knocked herself out. Right, we will be back. We'll be back next month for the many roundtable. Until then, my name's Garry.

Maria: My name's Maria.

Matt: My name is Matt.

Jordan: I'm Jordan.

Harry: My name is Harry.

Garry: And oh God. And remember.