Something Old, Something Terrifying – Season 2: The Well

Garry: Hey, hey, hey. Who Fans and welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name is Garry.

Adam: My name is Adam.

Garry: Welcome to episode 422.

Adam: Yeehaw.

Garry: Welcome back, everybody, to another episode. We hope you're keeping well and safe. We hope you've had a cracking week and that you've all managed to do something Doctor. Doctor who related.

Adam: Oh, wow. I didn't stand a chance there.

Garry: I have to win one week back. Yeah, of course, you've run away with it the last few weeks.

Adam: That was something else. Did you notice I give the old yeehaw there, mate? I've been listening to the Round table episode this morning and I noticed that one of our writing team gave a yeehaw in the intro and I'm like, okay, we're up in our game. Are we? All right?

Garry: Did. Yeah, I think I commented on that in the intro as well. Somebody gave us a yeehaw, which is very American. Very nice.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. So I thought I'd give a yeehaw back.

Garry: Thank you. Well, you can legitimately say it for. Because of where you're based, right?

Adam: Exactly, mate. Yes, I can.

Garry: In deep in the heart of Texas.

Adam: That's right. Yeehaw. Yeah.

Garry: So, big Blue Box listener, welcome back. We've got our review of the well to throw at you. Yes, you're a bit late on this one this week. Apologies, my fault. Had arranged to record earlier in the week, but things that I'd forgotten about had to be done. Things to do, places to go, people to see and all that jazz. So it's a late one. Thursday. I can't remember the last time we recorded on a Thursday.

Adam: No, I know, mate. Yeah, it's all right. It's good. It's letting it all. It's all sunk in. Yes, my thoughts are gathered. I feel like, yeah, I'm ready to dive into this one.

Garry: Ready to rock and roll. Have you. Is this a multiple viewing for you or is it just the ones?

Adam: No, I gave it to. I've given it two viewings this week just to sort of really soak it up.

Garry: Yeah, cool, Cool. I think it's needed, isn't it?

Adam: You know, I always like to give it up to two views, mate. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: Once as a fan, once as a reviewer. Not in that order necessarily. Take your pick. Whatever. Before we crack on with thus said review, make sure you're following the podcast on your favorite podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss an episode when they land every single. Well, at this point in the week, it's Just whenever we get it done. But it's usually at this point sort of a Tuesday at the minute after we read the episodes, so you won't miss notification for those. Plus, as Adam said, we have the roundtable episode that's just gone out that happens once a month where we gather, we gather all the writers and we just chat about something to do with Doctor who. We normally review and get those guys thoughts on something. So on the one that went out this week, we spoke about and did a bit of a recap on the Capital Cutaway event a few weeks ago in London. Spoke about that, which is very cool. And then I got those guys to chat about their thoughts on season two so far, now that we're a few episodes in. So that was very cool. So you won't miss those as well. You can also listen online over at the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk. listen for free on there. And while you're on the website you can read the really cool reviews and articles and everything from the writing team. Go and check those out. There are links there to the socials as well. We chat Doctor who all the time, so come and connect with us. Give us a like and a follow and chat Doctor who. We also have a free Discord server link is on the website. Hop in there. Chat loads of Doctor who with very cool who fans. And also don't forget to remember to check out my co host channel on YouTube. The latest one, very cool. The old vinyl. Tracking down Record store day. Go and check out Adam's channel on YouTube. It's the geek's Handbag.

Adam: The Geek sandbag, yes. Just uploaded that new video. You can go and see the massive record store that I went to here in Texas. I mean I nearly got lost in there, mate. It was. It was a bit like a Tardis. You walk through this little door and it just was vast. It was incredible. I spent hours in there and looking for a Dr. Who vinyl. So it's Dr. Who related. Yeah, go and check out my latest vid if you so feel like it.

Garry: Can check them out. Yeah, Adam's on the same name in on the socials, the Geek Sandbag.

Adam: So that's it.

Garry: Yeah, gonna have a chat about all things geekery. But seriously though, great channel that Adam's been running for donkeys years now. Loads of cool stuff on there. Yeah, so loads of Doctor who stuff to get stuck in over there. Alrighty, with that being said, let's crack on, bud. What we're reviewing this week.

Adam: Yeah. So Here we are in shoot his second season with episode three now and it's called the well.

Garry: Hamlet.

Adam: And jump.

Garry: Jump.

Adam: Jump. Colony base 1515 days ago. All contact was lost, the base went silent.

Garry: This whole world is cold, lifeless and dead. You should stay suited. What if no one's alive? They're all went mad. Any sign of trouble, shoot to kill.

Adam: What?

Garry: What is it?

Adam: What happened?

Garry: I thought I saw.

Adam: You thought you saw a person?

Garry: I. I didn't, did I? It's an empty room. There's no one there who. Creepy vibes, mate. Creepy vibes. This one. So the. Well, it was first broadcast on 26 April, so mere days prior to when we're recording this. It was a runtime usual for this season, about 40ish minutes. This one was written by. This was co written by Russell T. Davis and Sharma Angel Woelfel. Directed by Amanda Brochi. Stars Shooter Gatma of course as the Doctor and Varada Sethu as Belinda. And then about a dozen supporting cast members. And the synopsis for this one is far in the future. On a tough, brutal planet, a devastated mining colony has only one survivor. To discover the truth, the Doctor and Belinda must face absolute terror. So, mate, as seems to be the case with this season so far, picking up exactly where last week's episode left off left us. What are your thoughts, mate? As always, out the gate on this one.

Adam: Out the gate, mate. I thought it was a good episode. Some good stuff this week. We do seem to be finding our feet a bit, I think, with shooters Doctor this season. I wish we'd seen a bit more of this the last season, but you know, it is what it is. Good stuff. This is the kind of Doctor who I like, mate, where it's got a dark edge to it, a creepy atmosphere. I don't think we should have this every week, but it's certainly the sort of Doctor who that I sit down and enjoy. A slow burner in some senses. I don't know if kids would have stuck with this. I think they may have found it a bit boring. But as an adult, I really enjoyed it. I'm not going crazy about it as much as some people, so I once again had to look online because I didn't get to watch this till Sunday evening. And I saw a hugely positive, probably the most positive I've seen for a long time, even more than last week's. People were like 10 out of 10. This is already in my top five best ever Doctor who stories. And I'm like, whoa, What? You know. So I Was really geared up to watch this, mate, but made sure that my expectations weren't too high. Didn't want to go into it too much. But, yes, I can see why people enjoyed it. I. I'm not going to be giving it a 10 out of 10 when we get to the scores. The reasons for that, just quickly, it's because I, although I really enjoyed, did feel like it was all stuff I'd seen before. So I was kind of sat there thinking, this is good, but, you know, the whole it's behind your back. And it felt like a mix between Midnight, which, of course, it's a sort of sequel to. Which is cool, I think, but it felt like a mix between Midnight and the Satan Pit and a lot of other things. And it. To me, it didn't feel very original, but that doesn't mean it wasn't good. So I wasn't going crazy about it in the same way that some people were. I wouldn't put it up there in my top five because I think when you break it down and you get rid of some great direction, good performances from the cast, you know, the actual story is fairly basic, you know, but, yeah, that's, you know, I don't want to take away from the enjoyment that I had for the episode, which was that I thought it was a good one this week, but not perfect. It's not going to be a 10 for me, but it will certainly be up there with a fairly decent score. How about yourself?

Garry: H. Yeah, I. Kind of. Kind of on the same line of thinking as you on this one, dude. Although I think I. I'm not sure if I enjoyed it as much as you did, by the sound of it.

Adam: Okay.

Garry: Mainly for the reasons that you've literally just said. I think it started off really well for me, but then by the end of the episode I thought, this is just treading the same ground that we've been through. And like you said, it's. It's a mix of. It's like, turn left, Midnight. Same. Yeah, Those kind of things that Russell's done before. It's. It's. And it wasn't scary enough for me either. I will say, oh, okay. It started off being quite creepy and I thought, okay, this is. This is pretty cool. But then it just fizzles out to, there's nothing wrong with this kind of approach to. To. To trying to be creepy and scary and stuff, you know, where. Excuse me, you can't really see the monster as such. In this episode, we saw like very fleeting, sort of little tiny like one second it's on screen and then it's gone again. So it wasn't too bad, it wasn't terrible, that sort of thing. And there was a. There was a Matt Smith episode, wasn't there? Was it called Hyde Hide?

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Where they played on this thing of, you know, out of the corner of your eye sort of thing. So you can't really see the thing directly, but you kind of know something's there. So for me, it would have been far scarier and far creepier to do a full on possession story. You know, the, the deaf character, Alice. Yeah, it would have been far better for her to have been properly possessed by this thing rather than this, like I said, this trope that's been done before with turn left where, oh, there's something behind you. It's very panto to me, this stuff. It's very much like something behind you. Yeah. Oh, look, there's something behind you. And then there isn't turns around. It's like, no, there's nothing behind me. It's like, oh, yes, there is all this stuff. So I enjoyed it to a degree, don't get me wrong. I think it was. I think it's the best episode of the season so far.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And there is a lot to like about it. But on the other hand, it was one of those stories where I flip flopped a lot as I went through both times watching it, where one second I'm thinking, oh, this is great stuff. And then literally within a few seconds I'm like, I'm bored now because I've seen this bit done before. I've seen the way that this sort of turns out. And then because of that, the, the ending just becomes mega predictable because of. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, I liked it on one hand and then literally at the drop of a hat, on the other hand I'm like, this is. I'm bored out of my mind. So, yeah, it was definitely a tale of two halves for me, this one.

Adam: Yeah, I hear you, mate. I mean, that's the thing. It's not an episode. I mean, I enjoyed it. But is it one that I'm going to reach for to watch again? You know, not anytime soon. I'd happily watch it if it was on, on the tv, you know, if I turned it on and it was on. But yeah, that's the thing because it felt very familiar in lots of its, you know, ideas that were going on in it. Like it's behind you and all this sort of stuff. And it did feel like a combination of Episodes, I found it almost predictable, you know, when I was watching it, when they were like, don't go behind it, I thought, well, they're all good. At some point they're all going to go and try and find the creature behind her and then they're all going to die and, you know, it's going to jump to another host. And I could almost sort of. I was sort of almost one step ahead of the episode the whole time I was watching it. I felt, even on a first watch, you know, and I agree with you about on a rewatch, I do find myself getting a little bit bored, you know, because it is a slow burner. So I'm not trying to take away anything from the episode. But that's. That's, you know, that's what I mean when I say that it felt almost like we were retreading stuff rather than anything new, if you know what I mean. We did have fun. I watched it the first time with my partner. We did have fun trying to freeze frame to see the creature, because it is. I think it's on there for like half a frame or something. And we had so many goes and we finally got it. We're like, yes, we've managed to do it. And you do. You just see the tiniest. You just sort of see this head just behind it. You really barely see it, but I kind of like that. But again, it was predictable that we were never going to see it. I thought we, you know, we are. Although it's kind of been seen as a sequel to Midnight, we are never going to see the creature. You know, again, that's a bit predictable. And. And just on the subject of Midnight, mate, because this is a kind of sequel to it, in a sense. Midnight is one of the big reasons I always like to watch an episode twice, because I've never had such a big turnaround on an episode as I did with Midnight. I really did not like Midnight as an episode on a first watch. When it aired, I thought. I think I described it as like an episode of EastEnders in Space, where everyone's just shouting each other, all right, make it back over here. You know, I really didn't get the fuss about Midnight at all. And yet when I finally, finally rewatched it, I was like, sat thinking, this is great. You know, it's almost like I was watching a different episode. I couldn't understand why it hadn't clicked for me the first time around. It was definitely one of those episodes where everybody loved it and I didn't. And so that is why I always like to give an episode of the Watch, because I now genuinely think Midnight is a great, great bottled, contained episode. But the. Well, as a sequel. I don't know if Midnight needed a sequel, to be honest with you, but it kind of worked in a sense. We got a cool flashback, a tenant and whatever the character's name that, you know, that's it. But it's not up there with Midnight for me, even on second watch. It's just a good. Would you call it a sequel, mate? I guess. I don't know.

Garry: It kind of companion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Midnight is an absolute belter of a story because it's. It does the same kind of thing that it does in this one, but just to a more effective. A more effective way of doing it. Because in that. In Midnight, you know, the character sky played brilliantly by Leslie Sharp in that episode.

Adam: That's it. Yeah.

Garry: She does this really cool thing where it kind of gets you guessing for a few minutes. It's like, is she possessed? Is she not? What's going on? And it really built. That episode builds up the tension because, you know, you hear, like the banging on the outside of the thing.

Adam: Yes.

Garry: For a little while and it, you know, and it builds up and you think, what's going on? And the only time that you really understand what's going on and it clicks is when the Doctor's talking and then Skye's character starts to mimic the Doctor and they start speaking at the same time. You remember that bit? And then. Yes, the Doctor loses his voice because sky then starts to anticipate and say what the Doctor's gonna say ahead of him. And it's just really. It's really creepy. It's really well done. So I was hoping for that kind of stuff in this episode, which is why I was really hoping they would do a proper possession story, because it makes it more personal to the character. Because in this one, however much I enjoyed Rose Ailing Ellis's performance as Alice, I thought she was really good, such a sweet character. And it was one of those times where the act did the performance. And I will say this story had some good performances. Her performance kind of gave you that emotional connection. And so when she was in tears quite a lot and she was desperate to just go home because she's got a daughter and that sort of thing, you really felt for her, but at the same time, you were like, well, there's no. There's no kind of. Although you're. You've built a connection because her performance is Good. And you feel for her, the. The. The monster or the entity, whatever you want to call it, it's because they gave it. Even if it was, like you said, just a half a frame or very, you know, these fleeting moments, as soon as you've given the monster any kind of physical image, any kind of physical thing form, bang. That's the illusion gone. You know, you're no longer dealing with this kind of weird, cryptic, ghostly kind of thing. You're now just. You're up against an actual thing and it kind of takes the magic away a little bit, you know, takes the. Takes the edge off the. Off the creepiness. Whereas Midnight kept that very much. You were 100%. You didn't see the thing ever.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You know, it was all done through the performances of the characters and that was what made it so creepy. So, yeah, I was hoping for that again, like rinse and repeat, because that would have made it way scarier. But. But the performances were pretty sweet, though, dude.

Adam: Yeah, I mean, I've. I hear what you say, mate. I absolutely do. I. I didn't mind that we saw the flash of the. The creature. I didn't mind that because I knew that's all we were going to see. I thought, we're never going to actually see it any more than they're showing us. And I was. I was fine with that. I think that's absolutely, you know, correct. I wouldn't have wanted to see the creature, but. Yeah, I. I get what you mean. It. Perhaps it would have been scarier if they were actually possessed by it. I have to say, mate, the. The star of the show, and I hope I'm not jumping ahead here, but the person that really made this episode for me and I absolutely think deserves all the sort of 10 out of 10 that people were sort of saying on. On X and stuff, is Alice, played by Rose. How to say her name? Rose. Ailing Ellis.

Garry: Ailing Rosa.

Adam: Sorry. She was absolutely fantastic, mate. What I loved about performance was that when the episode starts, I could not tell if she was evil or scared or, you know, the look she was giving you. You weren't quite sure what was going on. And I just thought her performance was fantastic in this. To me, it really. I wouldn't say held the episode together because the other cast were good in their own way, some more than others, but I just thought she was as at the heart of the episode. She was absolutely brilliant. And, you know, on a rewatch, she's really what keeps me engaged in the episode. She was brilliant in it. I thought.

Garry: Yeah, no, I totally agree, mate. Yeah, she was really good. I think she was probably the best. Like, my favorite performance in this one.

Adam: Oh, definitely. For me. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah. Just because she. She sold it. Like, as soon as you go into that whole area and this is after they've discovered all the dead bodies and the smashed mirrors and all that stuff, it's a bit like something out of Aliens that, you know, they've got the. The scanner and they're like, oh, there's a heartbeat. You know, there's one person beyond the room. You know, in that room, beyond the door. You. You assumed that you were going to open the door and see some. Either a human that's just gone absolutely berserk and is, you know, doing their nut, or you would see a monster or something because somebody has killed all these people. And, yeah, you just see this really upset woman just sat there, just desperate to get home. And there was a bit just before the opening intro thing kicked in, where so the Doctor has done some sign language and communicate with her and stuff. And just before the credits kick in, this camera zooms into her face and her face changes, doesn't it?

Adam: Yes.

Garry: You know, and I think that's where you and I were on the same page with that bit, because you thought, is she secretly evil here? Does she know what's going on? Is she the antagonist of the story? Is she playing this a bit? Is she playing sort of false ignorance? Because she knows. I mean, ultimately she did kind of know what was going on. We find out a bit later, don't we, that. That she's aware of what's. More kind of aware of what's causing it. Yeah, she knows that there's something that's attached to her and, and, and why people have gone nuts and so on. So, yeah, her performance was. She sold it right out of the traps. It was very, very good. So. And a bit of a happy ending for her as well. You don't really see that too often with these sorts of characters, do you? It's normally especially that we've seen in the last couple of episodes with Doctor who, where, you know, people are biting the dust left, right and center. So it's good that there's a bit of a happy ending for her and she. She escaped. But, you know, that happy ending is. Then the game flipped on its head, where we've got somebody sacrificing himself and didn't have a happy ending, but.

Adam: And also, yeah, because we got like a sort of almost like, oh, there's a. It was unintentionally. I actually didn't even realize I was going to do that until I was halfway through it. But there's, yes, a twist at the end that maybe the entity isn't dead, so she sacrificed herself for nothing because it's still there. So not such a happy ending for now. What was that character called? Because she was actually the other person I thought was very good in this.

Garry: Oh, that was Shaya. So I'll let you say the actress's name, but go for it.

Adam: I've already forgotten. We had to Google how to pronounce her real name.

Garry: And I've already.

Adam: I thought she was good as well, because you mentioned Alien earlier. And, you know, when you get an ensemble car, sometimes they put this strong character in there, but they're actually annoying and you actually want them to die. I thought she actually managed to pitch a performance of being strong, but I didn't want her to die. I actually thought she was quite good, although I didn't. Didn't like it when she had old Cassio. Was he called not Casio? It's a watch, isn't it? Oh, no, he is Casio. Yeah. When she had him killed, I was like, whoa, A bit harsh. I mean, she did say she had to do it, but I was like, oh, that's, you know, you've murdered someone. So not all good.

Garry: Not all good. Yeah.

Adam: And he did what needed to be done, I guess.

Garry: Yeah. And he was. He was a little bit annoying, to be honest with you.

Adam: He was.

Garry: He was a little bit like ideas above his station and kind of confusing as well as to what he did, what he did. Because we'd all just witnessed, you know, first of all, somebody being killed by. And this was. This was quite funny to me, to be honest with you, is that when somebody steps behind Alice, nothing really happens to them. They're just looking around. Oh, there's nobody here. We'll keep going. And then Russell, being Russell, threw in this quirky thing where if you're exactly behind that person, so if you were looking down at them from above, if you were at midnight or 12 o'clock, directly behind them, then something would happen to you. So we have this, like, what felt like five minutes of people just of just, you know, zipping around in a circle as they were being picked off one by one. Nobody shouts, stop. Yeah, nobody moves. Because obviously what we're doing now is all killing ourselves, so just stop. So even though Casio's just witnessed all this, he's like, right, I can sort this Out. I'm taking charge. Code red. Get out the way. And then what does he go and do? Like, mate, you've. You've literally just watched all these people die.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: So now you've. You've just witnessed, you know, somebody being killed. So you then go and test, you know, you're gonna dip my toe in the water, see what's going on. So then he starts the chain reaction of everybody being killed. So, yeah, you can see why Shaya sort of steps in and she's like, you know, instead of shouting, like, literally, everybody stop. Don't move. Nobody turn around. Nobody run in the circle. Just stop. She's like, yeah, face me. That'll take him out. Face me, face me. Because she knows she's like, directly in front of him at that point. So, yeah, a couple of weird choices from the. From the characters. I was gonna say the actors then, but in terms of Casio, Christopher Chung, I remember seeing the casting announcement for him on. On the Socials a couple of months ago. Yeah, me too, thinking, ah, that could be a pretty cool character. Because they don't typically do sort of casting announcement for supporting actors unless they're pretty cool. So I was thinking, oh, this is probably gonna be a good character. But, yeah, a bit annoying, if I'm being honest.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. No, I must admit, I mean, I. I haven't heard of him. So when he was announced, it was. I was a bit like, who? But, yeah, he played that annoying character quite well. So when he did die, I didn't really feel anything for him, to be honest. But I did like the bit where he told the Doctor off for calling him babe. Because I'd be the same. I'd be like, oh, don't you know that all that stuff's getting on my wick, to be honest? So I got. I quite enjoyed it when he Doctor off. Although the. The Doctor coming back with okay, hun made me wanna.

Garry: Oh, yeah, you gave him a slap, wouldn't you?

Adam: Oh, I'd have to. I'll just be like, shut up. But, yeah, no, I wasn't too upset when poor El Casio got it, to be brutally honest. But I was a bit like, harsh, ruthless, mate.

Garry: Yeah, you've got. You've got to take charge sometimes and do what's necessary. Yeah. Can I just pick up on something as well? That's. That's getting on my wick, like you just mentioned.

Adam: Yeah, go for it.

Garry: Get this off my chest quickly. I'm kind of not really in the feeling. This whole Scooby Doo Thing still, mate. Remember I mentioned this last week? They did it again at the beginning, so. Yeah, at the beginning, when they're around the console and they're still going through this. Oh, yeah. There's something wrong with the TARDIS or something wrong with the Earth on this date or something, you know, And I think the Doctor's trying to smooth over the cracks a little bit. He's like, don't worry, every time this happens, we're getting closer and closer back to. To bringing you back home.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And so that's over in a couple of minutes. And then we've got this. I don't know, we got this weird thing with Belinda as well, where she's down in the dumps. Clearly she's upset, she's not home, she's frustrated. And then at the snap of fingers, she's smiling and beaming and she's ready to rock and roll and. And all that stuff. So, you know when the Doctor. When she says to the Doctors, does that mean we can change clothes? And then the Doctor's off on one. You know, he's like, oh, this is gonna be amazing. And then they play Britney Spears, I think.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Yep. So you see two. Two doors inside the tardis. One at the top that they run through, or the bottom, can't remember, but it's. They do that thing where they run through the door and then literally within a second, they're coming through the other door with new clothes on and stuff. Does that make sense? You know what bit I'm talking about?

Adam: Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah.

Garry: Yeah. That's really not sitting right with me, mate. It feels like a. It feels like a Scooby Doo cartoon. And it's. I don't know about you, it probably doesn't bother you, but I'm think I'm. When I. As soon as I watched that the first time around, I was like, please don't do. Why are you doing that? It's. It's completely out of place, not just for this season, but just Doctor who in general. It just makes this weird. I don't know, it just. It's. It's trying to be like an animated show, but it's not. It does not. It's not sitting right with me, mate.

Adam: Okay. No, that's fair enough. I mean, it. I have to be honest, the whole going through one door, coming out the other, it doesn't really bother me, mate. I was finding the Doctor quite cringe in those earlier scenes. You know, they're starting to make him a bit hyper, like Jodie's Doctor. And that. That's, you know, some people will love that and some people like myself will just find it a bit like, tone it down, you know, all this. You know, no offense to Shooty, but he is starting to play the character a lot like Eric in Sex Education. The other character play was like, yes, now you're enjoying this. And it's all a little bit over the top for my taste. You know, I can only say it from my point of view. Some people love it. I get that. But. So that's starting to grate on me more than, you know, than the sort of door change thing. But, you know, when Britney kicks in and it's all a bit ott, I was. It wasn't the best start the episode for me. But, yeah, the whole clothes change thing, I don't mind that. But what I found odd was the spacesuits matched perfectly with the, you know, the spacesuits that the. The crew were wearing when they. When they come outside the tardis, which I don't know is the TARDIS now just. Does it have a wardrobe that has, you know, exact suits for every occasion? I just found. I found that odd. So they've. They've. Yeah. I mean, how does. How does that work? It's just a convenience thing, I know, to move the story on quickly. But, you know, that's. Yeah, we're a bit odd, isn't it, that, you know, the Talis now can pick out the exact suits that they need to wear for every occasion, every planet they land on. I don't know. So that niggled me more than. Than the actual Scooby Doo door thing. But I absolutely hear what you're saying. Yeah, I've got Brittany in my head now, mate.

Garry: Oh, God, yeah. Oh, Going back to some performances, mate. So we've touched on. We've touched on Alice. She was really cool.

Adam: Very good.

Garry: Really. That was a highlight of the story for me. She was excellent.

Adam: Yes.

Garry: Yeah. Because she had a good mix of the. When you. It was kind of a layered performance because when you go sort of one layer below on the surface, she's coming across as just terrified and she just wants to go home because she has this daughter and so on, and. But on a layer below that, she's kind of. She's kind of being selfish about it, but in a good way, because she knows that something is attached to it. She knows that there's something not right, that it's attached to her because she's figured out that when you kill somebody who is supposedly Possessed or has got this thing attached. It then attaches itself to you. When you kill somebody, you then in, you know, you inherit this thing. So she's kind of doing it a way where she doesn't want to reveal too much because if she does, then they won't take her home.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: And then it almost collapses or, you know, almost comes crumbling down around her. Because when they do realize that something's not right with her, the doctor's like, you know, you can't leave. You know, we can't. You know, that's what this thing wants, is to get off this planet and go somewhere else and all that stuff. So. So she's kind of selfish about being coy about stuff, but it's in a good way because she's just got her best intentions at heart sort of thing. So because of that layered performance, it was great to see that character on screen at any time. She was very cool. And actually one scene, dude, that was kind of cool. That was. Did have that nice build up. Like we saw in Midnight was when we do have that thing where Belinda looks up and just for a second, she sees something behind Alice, you know, and that while the doctor's off with Shaya and. And Cassio investigating the. The. Well, yes. Everyone's kind of on edge, you know, and everyone's like, oh, what's going on? Did you see something behind? Did you not? Well, you know, you said you saw something, so why are you going back on it now? You know what's going on. That whole build up, that was really cool, that bit.

Adam: Yeah, I think. Is that the bit where she's putting the bandage on?

Garry: Yes.

Adam: And she just looks. Yes, that's. Yeah, that was good. That whole. I think that middle section was pretty good. Like you say, the build up worked quite well. You said earlier, like, it felt like five minutes, you know, when one scene sort of went on for like five minutes, it felt like it was dragging sort of thing. That's what I meant when I said, you know, I can't imagine a younger audience sticking with this episode because Russell keeps telling us he's going for this demographic of under. What is it? He's going for, like, the younger audience. There's no way. I don't think a kid would have sat for this. It would have been way too slow. So, you know, as I said, I. As an adult, I enjoyed it and I think it was nice to have an episode like that this week. But, yeah, I think this episode would have been a bit of a turn off for kids. I Don't know, it might have scared them enough to keep them engaged. I'm not sure.

Garry: Maybe. Maybe.

Adam: Yeah. But that. That middle section, I mean, there were moments when I think we tuned out a little bit and you said you felt the episode fizzled off towards the end. I would agree with that. And that's. Sadly, that's two weeks running where we felt like that. And once again, my partner got to about three quarters of the way through and, yeah. Suddenly got up to get a drink and I thought, oh, it's lost him again. And it was about the same sort of point, about sort of three quarters the way for the episode. So I think there is something in that, to be fair.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. You know, you're probably right on that, dude. Yeah. This is one that I had. I not watched with. With Wifey on this one.

Adam: Oh, I was about to ask.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we've had a busy week, so hence us recording quite late. But, yeah, we've not sat down and watched this one. We might do. We might. The weekend. Stick it on. And before we watch the. The next one, what's the next one called?

Adam: Lucky, Lucky Day. Yeah.

Garry: But anyway, yeah, so everyone's really good. Shaya's performance was pretty cool. The leader of the pack to begin with, then gets pulled rank on by Casio, then she kills him, then she's back in charge. But what was cool about, I thought, between Shay as character and Catio is this power play between them and the Doctor. So, you know, when the Doctor pulls out the sonic screwdriver and RE enables all the CCTV footage and everything, and she's like, how'd you do that? He's like, magic. You know, they carry on and Casio sort of rolls his eyes, like, here we go. And then those little digs that are having at each other. So I think Casio says something like, do I have to take orders from this Doctor? You know, Shay's like, yes, you do. So I really like that triangle of those three and, you know, who's actually in charge, who's really calling the shots and. And what's going on. So that was cool.

Adam: Yeah, Yeah, I agree. Because that's why I liked her characters. I felt like she was sort of, you know, questioning the Doctor and there was a sort of bit of to and throw between those, like you said, those three, really. But that's why I kind of liked it, because sometimes those characters become annoying, don't they? Because they're just questioning the Doctor. It's like just, you know, you can see that he knows what he's doing and he's in charge, so just let him get on with it. But I felt like, yeah, the whole tension between those three did sort of add something to the build up. And it was a good moment, wasn't it, when the. The Doctor sort of says, what's the name of this planet? What year is it? You know, when it starts to sort of question and he's sort of putting two and two together. I thought that was a nice moment between the three of them. And also this thing of, you know, they don't know humans. Humans don't seem to be, you know, the human race. They're like, what? Who? What? You know, that's a cool thing. That works for me much better than, you know, the scenes of the TARDIS trying to get back to that date, which, yeah, we get it. We don't need it every single episode, you know, I mean, it's almost like a recap, isn't it? But when they're adding a bit more mystery into it, like people don't even know the human race or it's been forgotten, you know, that was kind of cool as well, I thought.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. And that was going to be my summary for the episode, dude. It was going to be. I didn't really care for this being a sequel to Midnight because of the way they handled the. The entity. I didn't really care for that, all that stuff. The three things that were intriguing of interest to me was, yeah, this thing where Belinda's asking them about the human race and Earth and nobody has a clue what she's talking about. I think that's because at this point in. In history or whatever, the. The Lombardo people and Earth are supposed to be in this kind of big joint foundation of planets and. And everything, so they should know what Earth is and the humans and everything, but none of them know. So that was pretty cool. And I think she brings it up at the end as well, when they're back in the tardis.

Adam: Yeah, she's.

Garry: All of a sudden, she clicks. She remembers this conversation that she had and she's like, they don't know who we are or anything like that. The second thing was Mrs.

Adam: Flood, she's back.

Garry: She's back again. That was something of too hard for me, mate. Let's pick up on that quickly because this is exactly what we had with Season Twist in the last season, where this person shows up at the end of each episode playing a different character. It's almost rinse and repeat, mate. Isn't it from. From before. So it's so bloody frustrating, mate, Doctor who at this point, because just when I feel like, yeah, this is freaking sweet, like, this is so cool, my mind just then immediately reminds itself. Yeah, but you've seen all this before.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: You're like, we're literally strolling down memory lane in the space of a year. Well, we had all this anyway, mate, that. The Mrs. Flood thing, that's kind of caught. We had a bit more conversation from her this time as well, didn't we? We're slowly getting more and more stuff from her. So it started off, didn't it? These tiny little cryptic things like, you know, what's the matter if you've never seen a TARDIS before? Going, now we're going to, like. Did the Doctor carry a Vindicator with him? Yes, you know, exactly what I wanted to hear, sort of thing. So we're getting a little bit more from her as we go through the season, but it just feels like the same approach and the same thing that we had with Susan Twist. So I don't know what your thoughts are on that, dude.

Adam: Yeah, I mean, I am liking the Mrs. Flood cameos and I particularly this week's because, like you said it, there was a bit more intrigue of, oh, has he got that device with him? Good, Just as I thought. And so it sounds like Mrs. Flood. It's all playing into Mrs. Flood's hands. Everything's, you know, falling into place for Mrs. Flood for whatever the big reveal is going to be. So I liked that. I just hope the payoff is good, mate, because that's the thing, it does feel very much the same as the Susan Twist, which, to be honest, again, fizzled out. So let's hope this has a better payoff because I am quite invested in the Mrs. Flood thing and I do like seeing it pop up every week. But. Yeah, I know what you mean. It does feel a bit like this whole episode, really. It's a combination of stuff we've. That's all been sort of seen and done before. But that's not to say it doesn't work. It's just. Yeah, it's still a bit. For one of a better phrase, what you've just said, mate, a little bit rinse and repeat. Which does make me lead me on to my other thing of. I don't know how I feel about Midnight having a sequel either, because. Because Midnight is now an episode that I do regard very highly. I have Seen the Light. You know, it is a great episode. I. It's Sometimes you should just leave those things there, you know? So I don't know how I feel about it having a sequel, but I don't think it didn't ruin anything about Midnight, did it? It just kind of played off the themes of Midnight. So I think in a sense it works as a sequel. But. But I don't know, I just think Midnight is something quite special. I think as an episode, I think maybe it should have been just left as that. I don't know. It's a bit like Blink, isn't it? It's a great episode. And then they do the other angel ones and they completely sort of lose their sort of specialness, if you like. But I don't know. Mrs. Blood Thing, mate. Didn't mind it. Didn't mind it at all.

Garry: Yeah, No, I don't think it needed a sequel, but we'll get. That's a whole nother podcast episode.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Russell's originality at the minute, but no, I don't think it needed another sequel. Sorry. A sequel. But yeah, Mrs. Flood. Yeah, really enjoying what's. It's more a case of I just can't wait to see where she's going to pop up next week and.

Adam: Yeah. What's she going to be wearing next week? Yeah.

Garry: Let's get on to. So the other supporting cast members, they were. A few of them had a few lines here and there, but they were just sort of cannon fodder for the most part, weren't they? Yeah, yeah. So nice conversations between Belinda and. I can't remember the. I think it was Mo. Was it Mo or Hanno, one of the two who sort of had a chat with Belinda. She was kind of cool, but the rest of them were sort of cannon fodder. Let's move on to shooty and Shooty and Verada. So Belinda's still really cool, mate. I think she's a very cool. Have you seen this thing online that people think that she's the Ronnie.

Adam: Oh, really?

Garry: And not Mrs. Flood all of a sudden?

Adam: No, no, I hadn't seen that.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah. I can't. I can't remember the exact detail. Somebody had put a video on. It's either YouTube or Twitter. Can't remember. They're saying, my. This is my theory about Belinda being the Rani. And it snowballed and I don't know, but she's. She was definitely very cool in this. Again, I feel like we are slipping into a little bit of a trap with, you know, the whole shooty's doctor crying in every episode. I Feel like we are. We are slipping into a slight trap with her character where 99% of her performance. Verada's performance is great and she's very strong and. But she's also got a nice, caring side because she's a nurse and all that stuff. But her character seems to flip flop quite quickly between being upset that she's not being taken home to earth, upset that the TARDIS is not working, all that sort of thing, and then, as I said earlier, just that feels like at the snap of your fingers, she's smiling and ready to adventure and ready to crack on, and she's kind of going between those two really quickly. So I loved her performance again, as I have done since the beginning, but I do feel like we're sort of going into a rut of, you know, is she going to be upset and moping around at the beginning of next episode? For the first two minutes, the Doctor's going to give her a smile and a hug and a little, you know, flirty thing, and then she's going to be fine. And then at the end of the episode, she's going to be back to being mopey and sad again. Do you know what I mean? There's a bit of a pattern forming.

Adam: Yeah. A bit of a template, like. Yeah, we start the episode like this, then we do that and. Yeah, I absolutely get what you mean. As far as Belinda, as a character goes, mate, I like her, but she's not setting my world on fire. I haven't sort of warmed to her particularly. She's just kind of there and I like her, but that's as far as it goes. I need to see a bit more, really. I need to see more from the character to really sort of cement her up there. As you know, she's not like Martha for me, like Martha. I loved Martha and Donna, such a strong character. Donna's probably one of my favorite companions. Where does Belinda sit? For me right now, kind of just there, you know, she's so. I need to see some more character development from her and I think that plays into what you're saying. I can't have her just moping around every week, you know, and then being, you know, this caring character, then, you know, need to see more. But you. You saying about the Rani series has just reminded me that we've actually got this whole mystery around Belinda, which I'd completely forgotten about until you start talking about the Rani, and I'm like, oh, yeah, we don't. There's this thing about her being in Boom. As a totally different character. Now, that's not been mentioned again, is it, since episode one?

Garry: No, it hasn't, no.

Adam: So that, you know, how's that going to play into things? So maybe there is a good mystery there to come around Belinda's character and hopefully she will be more memorable because right now, mate, she's likable. But when this series ends and we're talking about companions like Donna, Martha, Rose, where's Belinda gonna be? You know, when we're sat around the table having a few pints, I feel like at the minute I'm. She's gonna be forgotten. Unless that's, you know, something happens or we get some more character development. I did like the scene, though, where she's talking about sign language and Alice says, you know, you're a nurse and you don't know sign language. It did sort of make me think, oh, yeah, you know, there's a lot of people out there that need sign language and we kind of, you know, it's a sort of specialized thing, isn't it, to do sign languages? You know, you. Maybe we should have it in, you know, when people are training to be nurses and doctors. So, you know, that was a cool little scene, I thought. So stuff like. That's nice. Just need to see a bit more of it, I think.

Garry: Yeah, no, I agree. And interesting fact, the casting crew went on a deaf awareness course.

Adam: Oh, really?

Garry: Yeah, in support of Rose ailing Ellis's character. So they could be a bit more, I guess, comfortable around acting around somebody with who is deaf and. And I guess learning some basic sign and all that stuff. So that was cool.

Adam: I've actually genuinely. I've always wanted to learn sign language, actually, myself. It's something I've wanted to do, but because I have a terrible memory as. As regular listeners will know who listen to podcasts, can't remember an actor's name half the time when I've just watched them. So I always feel like I'm just not going to be able to remember all the stuff. So I've kind of always talked myself out of it, but it is something I think is quite important. I'd love to be able to go out to somebody and be able to do sign language. Maybe one day I'll give that a go. I don't know.

Garry: Yeah, that'd be cool, actually. Yeah, I wouldn't mind doing that.

Adam: Do you agree with me about Belinda, though, mate? Is she doing much as a companion for you, or do you. Are you like me? Do you just like her? But. Or Are you really sort of thinking they've got good chemistry right now?

Garry: Well, I think her performance is really, really good. I think we needed. I think we needed a companion that wasn't just falling all over the Doctor every five minutes, you know, and somebody who was a bit stronger and a bit more. Somebody who's more. Not just swept up in the whole vibe around the Doctor as much, I think so. Somebody who's stronger and just knows what they want. So I think that part of it is really cool and I'm really enjoying, you know, how. How Varada Sethu is coming across like that. The, the, the downside to that is exactly what you've said is that because she's like that, I think it's hard to sort of warm to her because she's not giving you that Donna vibe or Martha vibe. You know, you haven't got that kind of nice warm. You'd think twice about asking her for a hug at the moment.

Adam: Yeah, yeah.

Garry: You know, you'd be a bit tentative and approach with caution, you know, where a shooter. You just, like, hug. You'd be like, yeah, babes, it'd be all over your sort of thing. So she's like the opposite, isn't she? I think that's kind of, in the grand scheme of things, that's probably needed. Having that contrast between the Doctor being that way and then Belinda being, you know, the opposite almost.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. Could be a good dynamic here, see how it plays out.

Garry: Yeah. And what do you think to shoot you then in this one? We've. We obviously get the tears. I think I, I'm. I'm now just looking out for an episode where he doesn't cry, rather.

Adam: Yeah, same.

Garry: You know, it's kind of. I know that's. I know that's a common thing amongst fandom at the moment. And people listening probably like, oh, yeah, you guys are just saying what everyone's saying. But it is a, you know, is a thing. It's become a thing, isn't it, with this Doctor and, And the tears and stuff. But I thought Shushi was really good in this one. Dude, I thought he was. There was a couple of scenes where he looked absolutely terrified, like literally had just peeped his pants. There was one scene where it kind of puts the, the room on hold a little bit. So that's one. That's actually one of the times where I think shooty does command the room a bit and does have some presence where, you know, that scene after everyone has been sort of, you know, systematically murdered, going around In a circle. He kind of puts a hold on the room, doesn't he, and stops everybody, slows everybody down. And then he approaches Aelis and then he does this thing where he starts to look round past her sort of thing, trying to see what this thing is. And then he hears these whispers, doesn't he? And he. And he says to them that this. This entity whispered his real name.

Adam: Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten that.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. And his eyes start welling up. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's one of those times where it's justifiable, him welling up like that, because he. He seems absolutely terrified. So that was a nice little bit where, you know, because we don't know, you know, nobody knows a Doctor's name other than River Song. And now this creature is obviously been able to sort of psychically, you know, see what's going on inside the Doctor's head. So there was a couple of scenes like that where he played terrifying. And also the bit where he's coming to the realization that he's been on this planet before, you know, when he's asking Shaya, you know, what. What. What was the name of the planet before? You know, when she says Midnight. And then he just, you know, crapped his pants again and, you know, and he's off. So a couple of annoying little bits, but mainly very good, I thought.

Adam: Yeah. I mean, the crying scene, mate, this would have been a good episode to have that. I think it's justified. It's. It does, you know, like, he really sells it to me that he's terrified and when he says, you know, it knows my name, great scene, but the impact of it for me has been completely lost because he just cries every week. And I know we've said that before, but that's how I feel. I just felt like, yeah, this would have. This would have had such an emotional punch, but instead I'm just sat there saying, oh, here we go, here come the tears, here comes the waterworks. It just loses, honestly. But it was. I'm not saying it wasn't a good scene. It was, but it just lost the majority of the impact it was supposed to have because, yeah, it's just another week where the Doctor cries. But in terms of Shooter's performance, mate, for the most part, I thought it was good. Right. Actually, it. No, shoot, his performance is good, but the way the Doctor was written and is being written at the moment is such a mixed bag for me because I like shooty, but, you know, there are times when his Doctor is really getting on my tits, quite frankly. Like the whole babes, the kicking, just the. It's just not for me. But I love it when he takes the performance down and like you says, commands the room. Fantastic, you know, but this is absolutely down to the writing and not shoot his performance. He's delivering what is on that page and he's doing it well. But it's just there are certain elements, the Doctor which are. I'm finding a grating on me, quite frankly, in the same way that Jody's Doctor did, where she's just bouncing off the walls to completely take him out of the scene. I'm finding the same feelings towards shoot his Doctor at times. Thankfully, he does have this more darker side where they bring the performance down, which is definitely working. So I want to see more of that because I think, yeah, when he. When he. When we see the Doctor like that, for me, that is much better. That's much more like the Doctor I want to see, rather than someone that's dancing around the room to Britney Spears every week and calling people honey and all that. It's just not for me. And I can't stress that enough, mate, because I know that there are people out there that will like it. I can only talk about the sort of Doctor that I like to see, and that's what I saw in the latter part of the episode where he's, yeah, taking control and he knows what he needs to do.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, No, I agree with you. But, yeah, and that's the thing to remember as well, is we can only say what we. We're not going to sort of pander to, you know, what's going on in fandom at any point was literally just our own, you know, what we want to see in. In Doctor who and stuff. So. Yeah, yeah, I think that's important. But no, I agree. Yeah. The fact that he cries all the time now just dilutes the effect of when he does cry. Because like you said, it's like, you know, oh, here we go again.

Adam: It's almost just like, here it is again.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's almost like it's a similar thing. Sort of a boy that cried wolf sort of thing, isn't it? You can only see it so many times before you think, oh, yeah, okay, so, yeah, I know what you mean. Two things I want to finish up from my point of view, bud. The first one is that I was so up for Murray Gold coming back, but I'll be honest, mate, his music's just killing it for Me, like most episodes, I have to do this thing where I have to rewind 10 seconds because I'm like, what did they say there? Because Murray's music is blasting out. Yeah. And I have to sort of Skip back in 10 seconds. Okay, that's what they said. And I'm just not feeling the music, mate. I hate to be a negative ninny on this stuff, I really do. And I'm such a fan of Murray. You. You, both, you and I are huge fans, aren't we, of Murray golden and his music. But for some reason, mate, it's not. It's not landing for me in this season especially. And I think it's because we don't have any repeatable hooks or melodies that are associated to certain characters. You know, like back in the day, we used to get really nice themes for. For each doctor and then each companion. It was those little motifs so that, you know, as you go through each story, there was like a little consistent hook, you know, that gave you that nice warm fuzzy feeling almost, which I'm just not getting that from. From Murray's music on. I didn't really feel it so much on last season, season one, but this one, I'm really getting that vibe where it's just. Just feels like generic sci fi music. It doesn't feel. I don't know, it's like. It's weird. It's like we have these little moments that just sound amazing. You think, Right, that's really cool. And then 80% of the music's just. You know, if you just went to YouTube or some stock royalty music website and just typed in science fiction, you just hear that a thousand times over. So I'm getting that vibe. And then the second thing, mate, was, as always, visually stunning. Like the production, the design, all that stuff. Amazing looking series as it has been for a few years now. But every season it seems to just hop up a little bit in terms of visual fidelity and. And the design and stuff. So that's no different. It looks amazing. So just a couple of things to finish up for me, dude.

Adam: Yeah, visually, mate, I absolutely agree. Brilliant. The episode looked class, looked fantastic. Direction really, really good. I don't know who the director was. I think you mentioned her earlier, but.

Garry: Yeah, that was Amanda Brochi.

Adam: Yep. Great direction. Music, mate. Kind of agree with you. This is an episode where Murray would normally absolutely shine with doing the creepy stuff. I can't think of any. I can't even remember the music in it, apart from when the entity appears behind the back. We sort of get this. I think somebody. I don't know where I heard this, somebody compared it to a clattering of saucepans or something, but it was enough to make me jump the first time, so it obviously worked. So there was a couple of little good moments from Murray in there. But I kind of agree with you in a sense, mate, because I love Murray's music. I mean, he was a bit of a. He wasn't the cheeriest of chaps when I met him in real life. So am I a fan of Murray himself? Maybe not so much, but I love his music. I think he's done some great stuff with Doctor who in the past, but does feel a little bit hit or miss at the moment. And yes, the dialogue. Now, I don't know if this is down to Murray's music being too loud or the actors mumbling or a bad mix or. Or all of that, but I genuinely nearly put the subtitles on in the first half of this episode. I couldn't hear anything anyone was saying. And maybe I'm just getting old, but. Because I was talking about Mahiring before we kicked off the show, actually. But no, I. I agree with you, mate. I. I genuinely couldn't understand some of what was being said for a. I don't know, not necessarily a large portion of this episode, but for certainly for some of it. And I don't know if that's the mix or the music being overbearing or what, but I. I was the same, mate. So it's not just you. You know, maybe we're both just getting old.

Garry: We're getting miserable old buggers.

Adam: Yeah, that's it. We are.

Garry: Okay. Have you got anything else on your notes, dude?

Adam: Let me have a quick look. I don't think so. No, I think we've pretty much covered it, to be honest. Yeah.

Garry: Okie dokie scores. And I think it's your turn to go first on this one, buddy.

Adam: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna go with the same score as last week, actually. It was nearly. It was nearly an 8, but I'm going 7.5. I'm really stuck between those two scores because I think I enjoyed it the same as last week, mate. And once again, it's the ending that's kind of fizzled out, and it's the fact that I just felt like I was watching stuff that I'd seen before, but, like a diff. I don't know, it just didn't feel that original to me. So do I give it an eight? It's not. No, I'm gonna stick with 7.5 because that's what I wrote. But it's almost an eight. It was good. It'll probably sound like I didn't enjoy it. I did, but it just wasn't quite up there for me.

Garry: 7.5, 7.5. I'm gonna go with a 6.5 for me. I think the fact that, the fact, the fact that, don't get me wrong, I thought this was a decent episode in terms of season to. I think it's the best one we've had so far. And the reason why I'm not scoring any higher is because I just can't get past the fact that we've been down. It's not just that we've been to midnight before and that sort of thing, but various elements in the story have all been done the same way. So for you it didn't bother you too much. But for me that really knocked the score down was the originality factor. I honestly felt like I was just watching a rehash, you know, of, you know, like in, you know, with some TV shows right where they were on air like 10, 15 years ago and then somebody like Netflix, you know, reboots it, you get a newer version of it and you, you're watching it and you're thinking, oh yeah, this is, it's on the surface, what I'm watching visually and experiencing is new. But I know what's happening, I understand and know what's going on behind the scenes. And that's what it felt like. Watching this felt like I was enjoying it on the surface. But then the nuts and bolts of it were like, yeah, I've done all this before a few times.

Adam: So I mean, I said it earlier, didn't I though? Although I was enjoying the episode, I felt like I was half a step ahead of the episode in terms of I knew what was coming. I thought it's going to jump to another host in a minute, blah, blah. So, yeah, I, I would agree with that.

Garry: Yes. Alrighty. So 7.5 from him, a 6.5 from me and I think we'll, we'll wrap it there, dude, for episode 422.

Adam: Alright.

Garry: Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Big Blue box. That was 422. And our review of the. Well from season two, it was a 7.5 from Adam, 6.5 from me. We'll be back next week for our review of the next episode, which is Lucky Day, which is A Ruby Story.

Adam: Is this a Doctor Light one.

Garry: A lot of people have said it's going to be a doctor like one, but I'm not too sure. Not dived into and tried to fish out some details, but Ruby's definitely back. Yeah. So we'll see.

Adam: Look forward to seeing Ruby again. Actually. I like Ruby.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, same should be good. In the meantime, dear listener, thank you very much again for listening and make sure you're following or subscribing to the show in your preferred podcast app, especially if you're a newbie to the show. If this is your first time listening to Big Blue Box, we'd love to have you along as we list as we review all the episodes for the remainder of season two. So make sure you're hitting the the Follow or the subscribe button, whatever it is in your app so you don't miss notifications when new episodes drop. And if you're one of the old grizzled ancients who've been with us a long time, then welcome back. It's great to have you all here. You can also listen for free over on the website Big Blue Box Podcastodee uk. All the episodes on there, plus the reviews and articles from the writing team, links to the socials chat with us on there and a link to the Discord server to chat on there also. Also, don't forget to remember to check out Adam's channel on YouTube. It's once again the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: The Geeks Handbag. I'm under that name on all the socials that geeks handbag and YouTube indeed.

Garry: Go and check out Adam's stuff. So until next week, my name's Garry. My name's Adam and REM Sat.