RTD Bringing Back All the Things – Season 2: Wish World

Speaker A: Hey, hey, hey, who fans and welcome to The Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Speaker B: My name's Adam.

Speaker A: And welcome to episode 426. Welcome back to another episode, everybody. We hope you are keeping well and safe. We hope you've had a cracking week and that you've all managed to do something. Doctor who. Oh, we're in sync on that one, pretty much.

Speaker B: Oh, it's only taken us 420 episodes.

Speaker A: Oh, that was nice.

Speaker B: That was nice.

Speaker A: No, no rivalries, no competition, no. None of that malarkey. This week as we approach the finale of season two, season 15. What we calling it, mate? What are we bloody calling it?

Speaker B: What are we calling it?

Speaker A: Why don't we go with season two? Because that's easier for the. The fresh people coming to Doctor who.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I must admit, when I'm just talking about it, just sort of generally off the cuff, I tend to say season two now. I think it's kind of been ingrained in me. So let's go with that.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Season 15, you're out the door.

Speaker B: That's it.

Speaker A: Season two, you're in the club. Right.

Speaker B: What does it say on the Blu Ray? Is that. Does it say. I mean, I haven't got it, I know it's not out yet, but will that be called season two?

Speaker A: Well, what does season one say?

Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. Is it season one over in the uk?

Speaker A: Let's have a look. It says season one.

Speaker B: Yeah, there you go then. If it's on the Blu ray, that's. That's what we'll go with.

Speaker A: We'll go with that. Gotcha. However, that is at odds with our Blake 7 podcast because the Blu Ray for that says series one and we refer to it as series A in the show.

Speaker B: I was, I was actually thinking that as soon as you mentioned what do we call this season? I instantly thought of Blake 7. I thought, no, don't go there because it's just a can of worms. All this season, series A, B1, 2. Oh, why is it so complicated?

Speaker A: Why is the world so. Just a spaghetti junction of stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Anyways, mate, we're almost there to penultimate episode.

Speaker B: I can't believe it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know why we can't believe it? It's because there's sod all number of episodes this, this time around.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And there we used to, you know, car. Used to. Used to gear ourselves up for, what was it, a 12, 13 episode run. Get ready, dig in. You know, we get to sort of episode seven and eight. And we're thinking, right, are we out of the filler? Are we out of the filler? The mid series dip, ready to ramp up to the finale. But no, we're already there. Wow.

Speaker B: I know, man. And the fact we don't. Well, we don't think we've got a Christmas special to even sort of tide us over. Feels strange. It does feel really weird to think that this week, you know, when we get the final episode, where are we? We're kind of in a void. It's gonna be. It's gonna be very interesting time, I think, this time next week, to see exactly where we are. We think we know where we're gonna be, but where are we gonna be? We could. It does feel a bit like we're in wish world. Anything could happen. This time next week.

Speaker A: It's literally like the real world, our world is in an episode of Doctor who right now. We're heading towards the void, like the nothingness outside of the time vortex. Are we in that weird in between bit? You know, between our universe, you know, in flux, where they did the whole two universes and you had that limbo darkness in the middle. Are we in the. The nothingness? The netherworld?

Speaker B: The Neverworld? Yeah.

Speaker A: Are we there?

Speaker B: That's what it feels like. But.

Speaker A: The, the. What's it called? Oh, we could be in where Omega's knocking around these days. The underverse. We could be there.

Speaker B: The under verse. What was that thing that Missy was in? That was another world, wasn't it? What was that? That other world that Missy was in? You know, in death, in heaven and all that.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: Another world that we could be in.

Speaker A: Where. Where was that, dude?

Speaker B: I don't know. It's a Moffat world. It's one of Moffat's worlds.

Speaker A: Yeah, that rings a bell. I can't remember where that was.

Speaker B: I just want to be on Clom. Not interested in all these other worlds. I just want to be on Klom.

Speaker A: With the absorber lofts.

Speaker B: Oh, no. I've heard a rumor that the old's coming back for the final. No, I'm joking. They can't throw anything else in there, surely.

Speaker A: Do you know what? You just read my mind. I was just about to say they can't throw anything else at the wall, surely? Op it stick. Surely. Crikey, mate, where was she? Right, let me just google this, because.

Speaker B: That'S going to bug you, isn't it?

Speaker A: She was imprisoned within a quantum fold chamber.

Speaker B: Oh, what? No wonder I couldn't remember it Yeah, I thought it had a name.

Speaker A: Probably did.

Speaker B: Somebody will know. One of the listeners will be.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: On the ball right now. Ex in us tweeting us.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What's happening as well.

Speaker A: Idiots.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: How could you not know this?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually dude, where do you think we'll be? Just what we kick off of the read. Where do you think we'll be this time next week? Do you think I'll. Yeah, I'm talking to rumors. Think old shoot is packed his case. Is he? Is he a goner? Do you reckon we're going to see a regeneration next weekend? Where does he gonna be?

Speaker A: Difficult to say, difficult to say and I don't mean that in a sort of facetious way where, where it's like you know, haha look where we are in limbo isn't it? I mean I genuinely have no idea. In previous years and previous actors who are sort of ramping up to the end of their era on the show you can kind of kind of put a pin in somewhere where you think it's going to go because you get rumblings of like oh you know the regeneration scene's been filmed and that stuff. But all we've got to go on with Shooty, pretty much everything to do with him and what's going on is all rumor. Like literally nothing's been confirmed or said by the Beeb or by Russell. I think the only thing that the BBC have said is there was a tabloid or a blog that reached out to them because here in the UK Listener, if you've not had the pleasure of looking at tabloid press in the UK before over the last week it's just been flooded with headline stories about Doctor who being axed, Shooty being kicked out because of wokeness and all this stuff. And because he pulled out of Eurovision they fired him because it looks bad on the loads of stuff. But I think when one of them reached out to the Beef they said look we don't conspire to any rumors or you know, any of that rubbish, you know until we say so it's all just rubbish. So because of that there's literally nothing to go on mate, I have no idea.

Speaker B: You have a gut feeling though.

Speaker A: The only thing I will say is because of the again this kind of limbo feeling around what's happening with Disney. Are they going to chip in again for another series? Are they not? Are we going to go on a break while they sought finances? Are we going to self host again from the BBC all that stuff? I think because of all that nobody can really blame Shooty if he did decide that he was going to go. Because you can't really expect him to. Because although his, I'm guessing the, the salary that he got for being the Doctor would be reasonably high salary. You know what I mean? His payment for the Doctor would be reasonably high. He's a leading man in a, in a very popular show. He's still a working actor. You know, he can't just now retire on these, you know, on these payments he's got for being the Doctor. So he has to find work somewhere and you can't expect him to sit around, to sit around in a Doctor who dressing gown and slippers, whistling the Doctor who theme tune, waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for Russell to call him and say, good news, dude, Disney are on board for another season. We'll see you in the office on Monday. You know, you can't really expect him to just sit there and wait. So if he's had loads of other opportunities and stuff like that, you can't really blame him for, you know, for, for saying, you know, I can't sit around and wait while you guys do your thing, so I'm out of here. So if that's the reason why he left, which I, I personally think it is, I honestly think that he's just not, he's not. His world is not Doctor who, you know, other things to do. So I think, yes, my gut feeling is he has left. Whether his regeneration scene has been filmed or not, I don't know. That again, was a rumor. But I think he has left not because he was fired, not because of wokeness, not because he pulled out of Eurovision, none of that nonsense. I just believe that. My gut feeling is there's a whole world of other shows and films for him to be in and he can't wait around for Doctor who.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm. I'm very much in the same camp, mate. That's exactly what I'm would assume is happening. You know, I mean, I'm obviously in the US at the minute, but I did see, you know, some of the tabloid front page headlines last week or this week, whenever it was saying that he'd been fired because of Eurovision, which doesn't make any sense at all because we all know that this series was filmed, you know, a while ago and we know there were reshoots recently. So Eurovision, all that stuff that they're blaming, you know, like you said, about him being fired, I don't buy into that at all, but I do, I can Absolutely. See, if I was in shoot his shoes with the show being in the position that it's in at the moment, which is undeniable, it's kind of is in a bit of limbo itself. There's an uncertainty around the show at the moment. You cannot really expect him to just, yeah, put everything on pause and, you know, carry on. He may, if he's decided it's time to move on. He's done his two seasons, whatever. He probably expected to do more, but things haven't worked out how they planned. It's time to move on. No bad feeling, nobody fired, nothing like that. It's just that's the way it's gone. I wouldn't blame him at all, mate. I don't expect him to sit around waiting to get the green light on series three, which might not happen for another couple of years. I mean, even if it's green lit, you know, he's still got wait around for scheduling to be done, blah, blah, blah. So I don't blame him at all if he decided to walk. What I am interested in is how that's going to be dealt with in this week's finale episode. That's the bit I'm really intrigued by because I feel very much like I did when Jodie's last episode was going to air. And at the time we knew that David was back, but we didn't know was she going to regenerate into David. Shooty had also been cast. Was she going to regenerate into Shooty? That was a really exciting moment for me, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people took when they sat down to see how's this episode actually going to play out. And then obviously we got to see David turn up. So I've got that same buzz this week, mate, that I'm really looking. However it goes, whatever way it goes, I'm so looking forward to seeing how this series ends. And you know what? It might just have a nice happy wrap up. It might be a little bit like Survival where the Doctor and Belinda just walk off, you know, chatting about tea getting cold. It might not be like a big massive OMG ending and I'll be happy with that as well. So I think I'm good whatever happens, mate. I'm just sort of really intrigued to see what we get, really how it does turn out.

Speaker A: Yeah, that would be lovely, mate. It'd be sad in one way, but love, because maybe it won't have the same impact as survival, I'm not sure, but you know, when they play the music for that. You know, that always hits me, dude. That hits me hard. Yeah, that bit of music as he starts to say, somewhere out there, oh, mate, I'm choking now.

Speaker B: Steady. Save yourself for next week.

Speaker A: Here we go.

Speaker B: Pull yourself together. Come on.

Speaker A: Anyway, that would be a lovely way to do it, because you and I have spoken many times in the past about how can they mix up a little bit the. The formula for changing eras, changing Doctors, whatever. It doesn't always have to be, because what I think what they've done in previous seasons quite a few times now is they throw a bit of a bait and switch out there where the Doctor looks like he's about, or she's about to regenerate, but then there's something happens and it stops and then the real regeneration happens, you know, in certain amount of time here later.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So why not just, you know, change the formula? I know they've done that a little bit with this BI generation stuff, and that's obviously a very big change, but, you know, it doesn't have to be the same. At the very last five seconds of the finale, you see the Doctor's regeneration energy start to come out of them, and then it's the cliffhanger, and then you have to wait for the next. It doesn't have to be that way, does it? Every time.

Speaker B: The more I thought about it, the more I'm thinking, I don't really want it to be an open regeneration. I don't. I'll be fine if it is, but I don't really want that to happen. I'd much rather. I mean, these reshoots that apparently happened were just in sort of someone's house. So he was thinking, well, that seems an odd place for the Doctor to regenerate. I'd much rather they were actually in the back garden just filming shooty places, popping around to see, you know, the 14th doctor who's on, and they just sit and have a cup of tea and a slice of cake. Cup of tea and slice of cake. Mr. And. And, you know, and the camera pans back and it's left like that. And then if the show comes back and it's a new Doctor, we're just starting afresh, because you can do that with Doctor who. Look at Eccleston come back, made one comment about his ears. So we knew he'd sort of regenerated. If you even knew what regeneration was coming into the show at that point in 2005. So you can bring it back with another Doctor. We don't have to see them regenerate, you know what I mean? But, yeah, I'm good with whatever. Maybe I. I sort of will be slightly disappointed if we get an open regeneration. If he starts and the arms come out and the camera pans back like they were gonna do with Jody before they re edited, just that, to me feels a bit predictable. And I probably will be a little bit sad if we get that. I'd rather just have no regeneration at all. Just have him. Like you said, just a happy ending. If we want to pick up in a couple of years with the new Doctor, or if Hughie wants to come back, go for it.

Speaker A: I agree.

Speaker B: But let's see.

Speaker A: That would be cool.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Talking of cups of tea, I've got a lovely cup of tea here, mate. You know, sometimes when you start a cup of tea and you think, that's a really good cup of tea. Yep. Talking of that listener, whichever type of listener you are, we hope you have got a cup of tea and you've. You've settled in ready to listen to our views and waffle on this week's episode of Wish. Well, before we get to that, we'd love to have you following along and subscribing to the podcast in whatever podcast app you generally listen to them on. If you're a new time listener, that'd be awesome. Welcome aboard the Tardis. If you are new and you just hit the Follow or subscribe button, that way you'll get notifications when all the new episodes land in your podcast app of choice. If you're one of the long timers, the Grizzled Ancients, then welcome back to the Big Blue Box. It's good to have you. We hope you lot are subscribing. Jesus. Yeah, you lot. Well, you know who I'm talking about as well. There's a couple on the Discord. I know, I know, you don't subscribe yet. Let's fix that. Yeah, let's hit the button. Let's do all that. You can also listen online on the website, which is bigbu Box Podcast uk. All the episodes are on there for free and you can check out all of the articles and reviews from the very cool writing team who do loads of stuff like big finish reviews, event roundups, editorial pieces. Really cool. There was a comment that dropped in just a couple of days ago from one of Harry's articles from, like, months ago about. His article was about why does Shooty cry all the time?

Speaker B: All right. Yes.

Speaker A: And it's not as. It's not the type of article that you think it is. It's not just a let's lay into shoot his character for crying all the time. It actually goes into a lot of depth about that stuff. Anyway, so loads of really cool stuff from the writing team over there and there are also links to the socials. Hop off there. We chat Doctor who throughout the week, in between episodes and just generally. So give us a follow and chat with us over there and we have a really cool free Discord server. Again, the link's on our website. Hop in there and chat Doctor who with lots of other very cool who fans. And lastly, don't forget to remember to check out my co host channel on YouTube. As always, it is the Geeks Handbag.

Speaker B: The Geeks Handbag. Yeah, go check out my channel also on all the socials, pretty much under the name the Geek's Handbag Indeedy.

Speaker A: Right dude. Up for review this week. What we got?

Speaker B: So yeah, here we are mate. We're approaching the final with episode seven called Wish World Hologram. Explain the history books say the planet.

Speaker A: Ended on the old earth date May 24, 2025.

Speaker B: Cause unknown. I am not just gonna take you home, home.

Speaker A: I am going to save your home. Here we go. Let battle begin. Morning, darling.

Speaker B: Morning, sweetheart. Happy morning everyone. Happy morning, Conrad. I ask you, how can anyone doubt this glorious world of neither?

Speaker A: Happy morning, Unified National Insurance Team.

Speaker B: How can I help? It's a shame these little people have to die.

Speaker A: I was getting rather fond of them. Belinda's epic scream cutting through there.

Speaker B: Indeed. Yep.

Speaker A: Okay. Wish World Episode 7, as Adam said, was first broadcast just the other day, 24th May 2025. It was written by Russell T. Davis. It was directed by Alex Sanjeev Pillai. It stars Shruti Gatwa, Virada Sethu and Millie Gibson's back as Ruby in this one. And a really decent sized cast of supporting cast members. And the synopsis is Traps are sprung and old enemies unite as the Doctor and Belinda finally arrive home to find a very different world. Can the Doctor see the truth before midnight arrives? Traps are sprung and it's just the same thing. Repeat over again. Anyway, that's the synopsis as usual, mate.

Speaker B: That's cleared it up. That's answered all my questions about this episode.

Speaker A: Indeed. Exactly the same as last week. I am so intrigued to find out what you thought of this one, mate. So straight away, as usual, what you got?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm very intrigued to hear what you think of this one as well. And I think it's because this Series has been so divisive and unpredictable, hasn't it? We've said before we, because we know each other so well now, we kind of get a feeling in our stomach of what the other might be thinking. Hasn't been the case with this series all the time, as I think sometimes we've known, but other times it's hard to guess. This is definitely one of those because we never discuss listener before we record. We never give each other hints. I think only once has Garry ever broken that cardinal rule. I can't remember what episode was that broke you. There was one episode you hated and you text me and said something like, dude, I don't think I can bear to review this week's episode. And I said, oh my God, he's broken protocol. Which episode was that one you really hated?

Speaker A: Yeah, it was a while ago now.

Speaker B: Yeah, we've. It's only happened the once, but he didn't break protocol on this. I've no idea what he thinks, mate. I was dreading watching this. It was like, because I was really, really busy over the weekend, I knew I wasn't going to get to see it till Sunday or Monday. So I was like, I've kind of gone past the point of caring about spoilers at the minute, to be honest. So I opened up Twitter and wow, the. The, the responses I was seeing was bad. Like, everyone. That was terrible. Like, and not just from the usual haters, I mean, just from friends and people I follow. And I was like, oh, wow, this hasn't gone down well. And then I open our blue box, WhatsApp and Maria's like, has anyone seen it yet? Because I need to rant and like, oh, my words, this episode sounds like it was a disaster. So I was really putting off watching it, to be honest. And I didn't get around to watching it till last night, actually. Sorry, Monday night. And yeah, that is last night. I lost track. Anyway, I said to my partner, should we watch Doctor who? Then? I'm just going to warn you, apparently it's terrible, so don't, you know, don't want you moaning or falling asleep for it. Let's just get it on and get it done. So I was quite surprised that I quite enjoyed it. I was like, oh, it's one of those where everyone hated it and I actually thought it was alright. I mean, not a particularly great episode or anything like that, but I don't know, it had a cool concept and I saw lots of people saying it was really boring and lots of exposition, which there was definitely A lot of exposition. I agree with that. But I didn't find it boring. I was quite intrigued by the whole wish world thing and I was finding myself smiling at all the returning characters from shooters first era. The fact they were all in it and UNIT was now an estate agent or whatever it was. What was. What's UNIT turned into?

Speaker A: They've turned into a. What's the world like a insurance broker.

Speaker B: Insurance broker. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So yeah, so yeah, I was. I was just like thinking this kind of fun. And what's going on with the cups? Keep smashing. That's interesting. And the ran is stolen. This baby and she's pretty cool. And yeah, overall mate, I. All I can say is I thought it was an okay episode that I enjoyed. It didn't blow me away. I thought it was setting everything up for next week's finale. Which is exactly what I expected it to do. Yeah, I just thought it was fine. I was quite sort of scratching my head trying to work out quite why it got such a bad rep from the majority of people I'd seen online. So. Don't know mate. I thought was okay. Let's see if you agree. Maybe you're one of the people online who couldn't wait to tear it to shreds. Let's find out. What do you think?

Speaker A: Do you know what mate? I didn't. I didn't think it was as bad as last as the week before last. The week before last. And probably. Yeah, it's been a bit of a struggle if I'm being honest with you. And you and I have both said the same thing for this season pretty much with almost every episode that it's been a bit of a. I wouldn't say a slog, but it's. Some things are not really resonating. Right. I think that's fair to say. And we've had a couple of. Yeah, we've had a couple of comments on. On a couple of. The last few week. The last few weeks episode or last couple of weeks. We've had some comments mainly over on Spotify and I agree with them wholeheartedly and I replied to a couple of them to say, you know, you guys are normally very positive even for episodes that are viewed amongst fandom as pretty poor. Whatever. You guys still find the positive stuff and don't get me wrong, we still look for that stuff, of course. Every time. Last week was a real good one for me. Although you and I had very differing opinions. I was really into it. You not so much. So this week I think we've evened out a bit because I didn't mind this either. I thought it was a. There's some things that I'm really confused about, which we'll get on to. And there were some things that I thought worked really well. And, yeah, there's some interesting choices about where this could go next week. I will say, just to surmise that I don't feel like a great deal happened in this episode. I felt like it was very, very much teeing up next week. Very much a big setup episode.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So not a great deal. It's one of those weird ones where lots of stuff's happening but not much is happening, if that makes sense. You know, so conceptually, some great stuff, some great ideas in here, but just. No, not much in the way of substance. I will say it's. To me, it's one of those. It's one of those episodes where you can. You put it on and at the end of it you feel like, okay, that wasn't a terrible watch. It wasn't an amazing watch, but what exactly did I watch? You know, it was one of those, okay, you really have to watch next week and com. You know, bung the two into the same pot, I think, to get a good picture of this episode, because we've only literally got half the story. Literally.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, yeah, not too bad, dude. Didn't mind it. Fairly middle of the road for me. Not great. Not terrible. Just. Yeah, plodding along.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's fair, mate. I think what I was relieved. Stroke. Pleased about by the time it finished. Two things, actually. One, that for the majority of it, my partner had quite enjoyed it because I was just expecting this to be a car crash. From what I'd heard it was. He was quite invested in it. He did say this is like WandaVision, which I was like, yeah, everybody's saying that. It's like, you know, you're not the first to point out. There's definitely some parallels there. And Russell, you. You know, you. You must have watched that series before doing this, but it was an interesting concept. It may not have been particularly new or fresh or orig. Original, but, you know, it worked for me. I thought I was quite cool having them trapped in this world and they don't know who they are. And you are waiting for that moment when the doctor, you know, remembers who he is, which is very much like in the Family of Blood. You're just kind of waiting for him to break out of it. So, again, kind of nothing original here. Been done before, but Yeah, I was kind of along for the ride. You know, I thought visually, it looked very nice. I absolutely love the big skeleton clock room that the ran. It's got. I mean, you know, that was a fantastic. I assume it was said it looked like a set rather than cgi, so that's obviously where some of the Disney money's gone. But, yeah, the concept of it, not original, but it kept me invested. The stuff with the cups crashing, I was like, what's that about? And then when it was explained, a very obvious, you know, answer. But I thought, oh, okay, that's. That's cool, that's interesting. So, yeah, it. Like you said, mate, it's definitely set up. Nothing majorly happened in it. I agree it was mostly exposition, but I think I was expecting that. That's exactly what I thought this episode was going to be. So I wasn't sort of disappointed in that sense, because I just thought that's what Russell does. A bit like last year's finale. We really enjoyed part one, didn't we? Can't remember what it's called, but that was all set up. But it had a real sense of danger and, you know, it really built. This one didn't quite have that same buildup, I don't feel, but it still had a good. It still left me excited for next week. That's the thing I was going to say. Sorry. There were two things I was pleased about. One, that my partner enjoyed it, and two, that I was expecting to get to the end of this and think to myself, oh, thank goodness, we've only got one more episode left. If I'm brutally honest, that's how I expected to feel, I was thinking, but I didn't. It finished good cliffhanger with the Doctor falling and I just saw. And the world's collapsing around us, and I actually thought, oh, I'm actually really excited for next week now. Not because it was great episode, but there was enough in there to, I want to find out the answers, I want to see what happens, to shoot his Doctor in terms of regeneration and stuff. So, yeah, I was actually left feeling, okay, I'm up for next week. Which was. It should be a given, mate, but in the way that the Doctor who is at the moment, it isn't, unfortunately. So I was just pleased to be excited for next week's finale as well. So in this sense, I think it did. It did the job it's meant to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'd agree with that, mate. It's definitely set up next week as a big. It needs to tie a lot of things up. Admittedly, there's a lot of stuff that it needs to try and squeeze in.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And so let's hope they get around to that. But I think the episode you're referring to is A Legend of Ruby Sunday, which leads on to Empire of Death. Right. That was the whole.

Speaker B: That's right, yes.

Speaker A: You know, the whole Sutek thing. That's it actually, in relation to that. Let's go. Let's go top level for a second. I'm more in. I'm more interested next week in some of the more contained storylines, if I'm being honest, because this is now. God, how many times now has Russell brought back a. An old classic monster to. To do battle with, like the modern stuff, you know, so I'm kind of. I'm sort of getting tired a little bit of. Of this stuff. So with the whole Omega thing. So in the preview, in the next time trailer for, for this week's episode, the Rani says something along the lines of, I'll bring Omega back and forge a new Gallifrey or something. Yeah, I think, you know, here we go, here we go, here we go. Russell. Russell's been on the old cl. I'm sure that right when Russell sits down and he's planning out some of these things, it's on the back of like a 48 hour drunken binge of classic Doctor who.

Speaker B: You're sure not thinking of Moffat.

Speaker A: Well, he's. Well, the Moffat was the opposite. Like, he'd have three bottles of red wine in the space of an hour, come up with some ludicrous brand new thing.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, you're right. Like the Silence or, you know, the Weeping Angels. He was good at stuff like that.

Speaker A: You're right, exactly. Yeah. And then he'd launch a bottle at the wall and then we'd get on with our lives and that'd be it. Whereas Russell's the other way. He's like, you know, I've got this weird rationale that Russell's a white. A white wine drinker for some reason, I don't know why. But anyway, he's like six bottles of, I don't know, Sauvignon Blanc down, and he's watched like, you know, all of, like, the key episodes of each classic Doctor and he's like, yeah, I'll bring this thing back and have we done Davros, babe? Oh, have we done Davros? Oh, we have. Right, right. Davros is done Susec. Oh, yeah, we've done him.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We could bring back The Dark note. Okay. Sick of being shouted at. Never mind. Oh, let's put arc of Infinity on Omega, you little bugger. Right, we haven't seen you in a bit. Let's drag you kicking and screaming into it. So to make the whole big thing, you know, the big stuff, the Rani or the Ranis, Omega, all that stuff. To be honest with you, mate, I'm. I'm not really too fussed about that because I hyped myself up into stupid levels of expectancy with the whole Sutek thing. Because I was expecting, like, classic Sutek in the mask, more kind of humanoid Sutek to just be, you know, kicking around and doing his thing. And it turns out we got a big CG dog and whatever.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that wasn't. Yeah, that didn't land for me, as, you know, anyone listen, you know, heard our review, you'll know it didn't land. So I'm really, really hoping, mate, that we don't get some big CG version of Omega that's going to come crashing through the seal of. Because in the trailer for next time, you can see the seal of Omega, can't you? The green thing, and that starts to open slightly and then on the other side, you've got the Seal of Rasselon and all that stuff. So is. So, dude, shall we just clue up the new. The newbie. So Doctor who. Because the show really hasn't done a good job of that, has it? Like, I will say, if you're a newbie to Doctor who, you're a casual viewer. This is the first time you're watching Doctor who. You have done well to get to episode seven. I'll tell you what, mate, last week I was watching that episode with wifey, right? And about 35 minutes in, I thought she got up to. When I thought she got up to go make a cup of tea.

Speaker B: No, you didn't see her again?

Speaker A: I didn't see her. She just left. So I said, oh, do you want me to jump to go back and just. We'll pick up where you left off. She's like, no, I can't watch that. She's like, I just can't watch it because she went. I'm sure you lot know what's going on. Like, you lot, as in, like, there's a lot. Us lot as like, who? Fans and stuff. But she's like, honestly, babe, I have not got the absolute foggiest what is going on. She's like, there are things she said, there are characters that are being mentioned. There are things from older Doctor who that are being mentioned. All this stuff she said, I just have no clue. Like I literally am lost. I'm sitting here with brain fog thinking I want to enjoy this, but I just have no idea what these things are.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. I mean, that's why I always love to get sort of like what, you know, cool for. Want to bet with the casual viewers view? I just always think, how is this going down with just somebody who might just have plonked down to watch this? Because that's the thing, you know, my partner was invested, but I'm pretty sure he had no clue who the Rani was or you know, the name drop of Omega at the end, which obviously for me was like Omega really to him meant nothing. So I mean, you know, it's. I guess you're trying to appeal to both the hardcore and the casual. But yeah, I don't know, mate. It still didn't have that big OMG effect on me of, you know, the return of Omega potentially coming this week. It didn't. Still didn't sort of land in the way that I think it should have. I think it's because we now, like you said, I almost expecting all of this stuff from Russell. It almost feels a bit predictable. Like you said, he's done Sutek, so who's he going to move on to next? I. I am surprised that he's throwing so much at the screen, if I'm honest. I think next week's final. I just get a feeling and I hope I'm wrong. I just get a feeling it's gonna be everything in the kitchen sink and it's gonna be a bit of a mess because we do know that Russell's not very good at landing with his finals particularly well. So again, I'm sort of, I'm not being down on it. I just. I'm just tempering my expectations that I'm not expecting great things next week. I just hope that some of it actually sticks and lands, you know, I mean, like you said, I think this is the problem. I think sometimes it's built up to be. It's got to be this big thing when actually is the quieter stuff that is more engaging. So for example, although I find it weird having two ranis, the Mrs. Flood Rani and the other Rani, because they are so contrasting in character. I'm actually really liking this almost duo double hander that we've got between the two actors. You know, it's quite fun seeing Mrs. Flood getting annoyed at having to make a sandwich and I do get the feeling she may actually turn on herself and, you know, she might actually turn against the. The new Ronnie. So there's fun moments like that and I think actually you could have just concentrated on the Rani and whatever, but we'll see, mate. As for a big CGI Omega, pretty sure that's what's coming. I'll be very surprised if someone in a suit, as in costume, not a. Not a pinstripe suit. I'll be very surprised if someone in an Omega outfit whilst is in this week, but who knows? I'm pretty sure it'd be a big old CGI something or other. Who. Who knows? Yeah, we shall see. I haven't seen this. I know there's a leak going round of a supposed picture of what's coming. I haven't seen it. I don't want to see it actually. But apparently it's fake anyway.

Speaker A: But. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.

Speaker B: I don't think they'll be able to resist it, mate. Not after Sutek. I mean, look what they did to suit it. They're gonna try and make it as big and, you know, whatever, aren't they?

Speaker A: Yeah. And also, let's not forget that. So Omega, new listeners, new watchers of the show. Omega is touted as, like, he's described in a couple of ways, but overall he's meant to be like the first Time Lord. Like, he's meant to be the guy that. He's like this mega, mega intelligent sort of intergalactic engineer and he harnessed the power of a supernova and made time travel possible. So he, he's the guy that's responsible for enabling that technology for the Time Lords. So he's meant to be like, yeah, this kind of genius engineer dude unfortunately lost his marbles when he gets stuck into. In the antimatter universe. He ends up going absolutely bonkers. As you would.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you have to go back and watch the Three Doctor story. But they basically find him and he's just absolutely. He's lost his marbles. So. And there's a bit in that story. There is if there's a spoiler to this, by the way, if you've not seen the three doctors, fast forward 10 seconds now. But when he takes off his mask, there's just nothing there. It's just like he's invisible. Whatever, He's. He's gone nuts. Um, so that makes me think that because of that they could do some kind of weird CG thing because at this point nobody really knows what Omega looks like.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So they could do the Whole. The whole thing. So how does that relationship work with the Rani Omega? I don't know to my knowledge, dude, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know of any stories where the Rani and Omega have been in cahoots before or anything. I don't know.

Speaker B: No, I mean, I don't know. Not that I'm aware of. I mean, you know, there could be like a new Virgin Adventure story book or something, but not that I'm aware of, Mate. I mean, Omega is a great character. So a bit like with Sutek, I am apprehensive about what they might do with Omega as a character because, I mean, with Sutek, the. The real crime was that they didn't do anything with him. You know, it's kind of reduced from being a really good character to just a dog on a lead being pulled through a vortex. So I don't want to see that happen to Omega because he is a great character. And if you are new to Omega as a character and you're thinking, oh, I might check out. Hmm, hang on, I've got the Three Doctors in my left hand. And what's this Arc of Infinity? Which shall I go for? I would say if you're only gonna watch one, probably the Three Doctors.

Speaker A: The Three Doctors.

Speaker B: I have a soft spot for Arc of Infinity. But, you know, it's Three Doctors is definitely the better Omega story. You'll get a lot more from it. So. Yeah, I'm just worried what they might do with the character. Mate more than anything. Plus, you've got. Yeah, the Rani. I think Susan will be back next week. I think we might see Joe Martin's Doctor back, the Fugitive Doctor. I think there's going to be a lot thrown in. I just hope it doesn't turn into a complete shambles, to be honest.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know what's going to happen? It's going to be like the Rise of Skywalker, where there's going to be lots of stuff going on and you've only got a very short run time, generally speaking. So you're going to have to speed run through a lot of these things to tie them up and stuff. If they decide to tie them up, they might not. They might leave it on a huge cliffhanger, tune in. God knows when it's coming back. 20, 29, you know, we'll have it all. You're ready to go. So we've kind of started at the end, haven't we? With Omega?

Speaker B: We have a bit, yeah.

Speaker A: But it's important to reference that stuff. Because he is an important character in sort of Time Lord history, isn't he? And Gallifreyan lore and everything and. And all that. So, yeah, I imagine if you are. If you're listening to his podcast, you're kind of in the know anyway. But just in case that was the whole deal with Omega. And the reason why he's such a. He's such a grumpy sod is because he felt like the Time Lord's kind of forgotten about him.

Speaker B: He felt like under appreciated. A bit like Conrad, actually. Maybe there's a link.

Speaker A: Yeah, he felt like he was, you know, off in this antimatter universe for God knows how long. Nobody came to rescue him, even though he's the one that gave them all this power and all the rest of it. So he's a bit. He's a bit grumpy, to say the least, which makes me think it's. I don't think it's going to be plain sailing for the Rani if she does manage to bring Omega back. I don't think it's going to be a case of I've brought you back. You've got that, you know, between us, we can bring back Gallifrey or a new version of Gallifrey, whatever that might be. I think he's gonna have a bit more of a. A bit. Some scores to settle before he just says, okay, yeah, let's. Let's Lego brick this and. And bring Gallifrey back. I don't know. Anyway, that's Omega. The other thing to consider, dude, is where do. Where do we stand at this point in canon and the narratively running through this season with the whole timeless child thing? Because if you think about the two halves of the Time Lord's power, you've got the time travel bit, which is more the kind of science thing with Omega, then you've got the regeneration stuff, which is Tektayun. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And using, because the Doctor is kind of unique power to regenerate. It was that that they used and sort of reverse engineered that, and the Time Lords now use that power to regenerate. So is there going to be a thing where they marry up these two things where you've got Omega from one side, you got this whole timeless child tecton thing on this side. Is that going to play a part? Because Russell hasn't wiped that away from existence as he got still a thing. So if they're going back to like, old, old origins of the Time Lords and origins of their stuff with Omega, could that be a. Could that be a thing? Because we have seen Jo Martin's Doctor in it and she apparently predates Hartnell. So are we going to see some of that stuff play out?

Speaker B: I don't know, mate. It really is.

Speaker A: Come on, get your brain in gear, dude.

Speaker B: Well, it's just that there's so much, isn't there? It's like it is such a can of worms. I mean, because I'm trying to work out, how does Poppy fit into this? You know, how does Susan fit into this? Like I said, where does the fugitive Doctor fit? It's just. I don't know, mate. This is why I think sometimes they should just sort of stay clear of all this stuff, you know, because you start tying yourself in knots. I mean, it would be interesting if they played into that, but I don't think they will. I don't think they'd know. I don't think Russell would know where to start, because as soon as you try and explain one thing, you're going to contradict another, I would assume. I don't know, I can't see it.

Speaker A: Yeah, true. One thing I would like to see, though, moving forward, not next week, but in future series of Doctor who, is Gallifrey back?

Speaker B: You want to see Gallifrey back?

Speaker A: Yeah, but I'd like to see it in a different. In a different light. So I'd like to see Gallifrey back in existence and the Doctor sort of hopping in and out of Gallifrey now and then as a fugitive, like back to the old days, where he's run away from Gallifrey.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, he's stolen the tardis, he's run away. But every now and then there's those interactions with the Time Lords, isn't there? It's even like we reference the three Doctors, you know, they play a part in that, don't they? They allow Doctor to cross his own time stream and have multiple existing at the same time, etc. So, you know, things like that, where they're still kind of mysterious in a way, but, you know, Gallifrey is back and it just opens up so many doors for future stories and whatnot, because there's only so many times you can see the Doctor get mopey and cry about, you know, being the last of the Time Lords. You know, if we're going to reinvent the wheel with some of this stuff, why not bring Gallifrey back anyway?

Speaker B: Yeah, I. I actually agree with you, believe it or not, because I. I'm kind of really bored of the Last of Time Lords. But, oh, he's not the last of Time Lords as the Master as well. Oh, hang on a minute. There's also a Time Lady, I think they called her, didn't they? The Rani. So he's not the last of Time Lord, is he? And also, I agree with you, mate. You know, when you look back at the classic era, it was quite exciting, wasn't it, as a fan, when the Doctor went back to Gallifrey. If you think of, like the Deadly Assassin, but only now and again, that's what made it good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, even. What's the one where he goes back and he's pretending to. You think the Doctor's gone mad. The one with the Sontarans. Even that one, you know. So the problem is, Gallifrey's been come back. It's been destroyed. It's come back. It's in a pocket universe, it's come back. It is getting a bit tiresome. So I would like them to bring it back and just leave it, you know, it's back. That's it. We don't need to destroy it again. We don't need to hide it, we don't need to do anything else. Gallifrey's back. The Time Lords are back. It's there. The Doctor may pop back home once every three or four series, you know, it'll be a treat. Oh, my God, the Doctor's gone back to Gallifrey. Not every week. And then it would be nice, wouldn't it be special again, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Rather than just being like, oh, Gallifrey, really? Again. The crystal, the Citadel dome again. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Exactly that, dude.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Have it back, have it re. Established in history, but just.

Speaker B: That's a good word.

Speaker A: But just have the Doctor interact with them every now and then.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, no, that's the perfect word, mate. Re established. It's there. You don't need to. You know, it's just. It's there if you want it. It doesn't need to be. Bit like the Doctor, really. We know so much about the Doctor now and yet we know so little. Because I've messed around with the character so much that just have it established and then it's there to tap into now and again if you need to or want to. Yeah, so I agree, mate, I do.

Speaker A: That might be cool. Yeah. We have gone about this ass. About face. We've gone right at the very end and all that stuff.

Speaker B: We always.

Speaker A: Let's bring it back to the beginning.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Of the episode. Just quickly. So the. It starts out the. The premise is we're tapping into this thing about the pantheon of the gods. Aren't with this one. Aren't we? So we've gone through a couple of them, and now we're on what appears to be the last of these gods, which is the God of wishes, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So the Rani goes back in time to Bavaria, back in the. Whatever day it was, 1865. And there's a baby being born. And she knows it's the. It's the God of wishes. Kills the family, takes the child and gives the child to Conrad. Conrad then creates this world. He wishes this world into existence. And that means that people are trapped in this kind of pseudo reality where it's his thoughts, you know, and his wishes that are keeping this world going, while the Ranis. Is it right to say the Ranis? Because I don't know what the plural. I mean, I guess it's just the rani is. Can be used in both single and plural, I guess. I'm not sure. But the. The two Rani characters, they've got a larger grand plan, we know, which is to bring back Omega. We've just been talking about. So this whole world that exists, which is fake, obviously, it's created around. Everybody has to be a believer. And people who have doubts about the reality, they get carted off and whatever. And weird things happen. So what did you think to that premise of Conrad's world that he's created and this concept of things don't feel legit, you know, the Doctor starting to twig a little bit on certain things. Belinda has doubts. And this whole concept as well, of, you know, when Watts's face comes back through the TV and gives the Doctor a message.

Speaker B: Oh.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah. And basically, tables don't work that way. And then later on, you see the Doctor when he starts to doubt, reality breaks down, which is why the cup falls through the table, because the table becomes, you know, a figment of, you know, it's not reality. So the cup falls through. So what do you think to those things, that fake world and this concept of doubt and the, you know, the setup for the story?

Speaker B: Yeah, I liked all that. I really did. I thought it was a really cool idea. And it's a. You know, it's a very simple idea of doubt causing the sort of world to be fragile and stuff. So, yeah, no, I was. I was all on board for that, mate. I don't know if narratively it was that easy to follow. So, like you were saying about your partner. If she couldn't follow last week, I don't think her and many other sort of casual viewers stood a chance this week even. I was really sort of trying to get my head around what exactly was going on. I think it helped for me that I'd listened to a couple of other podcasts that were. Talked about it and. And it kind of explained stuff before I watched it, which you shouldn't really need to do, you know what I mean? So I kind of knew what the premise was going in and it did sort of flow fairly well for me. But I would think if you're just a casual viewer, you might have found yourself getting a bit lost in all this. It did also feel like it didn't pick up from last week as well. I feel like I don't know if stuff's going to be explained, like the TARDIS doors blowing off and, you know, how last week's ended and then this week's just picks up from they're already in the world and how do they. You know, I'm not sure if we're going to go back and explain that or if we just got a roll with it. So, to me, it felt a little bit disjointed from last week's episode. Felt. Felt like there was an episode missing, really. But. But no, I thought it was cool because it. I like it when Doctor does weird stuff and. And tries something different and to see sort of shooting Belinda and Poppy living this life as a family and, you know, it's all gonna be fake and whatever, but it made it interesting. I also liked. This will surprise you, mate. Also liked seeing Kate Stewart doing a different role. I actually thought it was quite a fun concept having unit as this, you know, whatever is meant to be, you know, so that was fun. Yeah, I was. I was along for the ride with the concert, mate. As I said, I do feel it's been a little bit ripped off from other shows, but, hey, that happens.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you can definitely see the. The comparison between WandaVision and. But it's not the. It's weird, isn't it? It's not the first time we've seen that style, you know, that visual retro, 50s style.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Thing going on. We saw it right at the beginning, didn't we, with the Robot Revolution that had a similar kind of thing. We described it as like the Incredibles sort of visual vibe, isn't it? And they seem to have played on that a little bit. And we're back here again with that old classic thing. But the whole fake World thing set in the past. Well, visually set in the past with the, the design choices. Very marvelous. WandaVision esque. But there was also, I know you and I mentioned this from time to time, but there was also a little bit of sort of social commentary, political commentary going on as well, wasn't there?

Speaker B: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: Which was a little bit on the nose, mate, more than I thought it was going to be.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: This whole thing with, you know, when the Doctor turns to, to Kate's bit of stuff. Kate's bit of stuff. What's his blood?

Speaker B: I don't know what his name is. That's why I said that. I can't remember his name.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say Conrad then. It's not Conrad, is it? Of course it's not. It is Ibrahim. Is it Colonel Christopher Ebram? Is it him? Can't remember. Anyway, he says he's a, he's a beautiful man or something and he loses it. He's. I know, you shouldn't be saying that to another man. So we've got the sort of homophobic things in there. We've got the, the, the disability view of this, you know, disabled people and stuff like that. You know, it's the, it's the people with disabilities and whatnot, both mental and physical, that are not really seen. So they, they go about, you know, unseen, as it were, if that makes sense. They're all sort of confined to these little camps and, and whatnot. They don't have the perfect sort of family, nuclear family, picket fence sort of life that a married couple would have who are quote unquote normal. So yeah, we do have a bit of social commentary going on. So I'm not, I'm not really sure exactly how I feel about that at the moment. Maybe if you and I do a series two, season two sort of wrap up show, we can go into a bit more detail. But yeah, I'm always conflicted a little bit with that stuff because I feel like on one hand it's like, yeah, I guess, you know, it's important to, to, to either have some representation for people who are affected by this stuff or, or to mention it, I'm not sure. But on the other hand I'm like, well, I hear about all that stuff day to day in the news and it's a bit depressing and whatnot. I kind of want to watch Doctor who for a bit of escapism.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, and a bit of, I don't want to have to concentrate on, you know, social politics and politics in general. All that stuff. So I don't know, mate. I don't know how you feel about it, but I'm conflicted.

Speaker B: I'm a bit the same. I think I've almost become a bit numb to it in RTD's era, to be honest. It's just. I wouldn't say I've got to the point of rolling my eyes every time we get something shoved in like this, but it's. I don't know. I think I've just come to accept that this is what RTD wants to do with the show. He wants to insert a lot of this stuff in there, so there's no point kind of getting annoyed about it. It's just, you know, that's what he wants to do. That's. As the showrunner. So, yeah, it was very on the nose, you're right. But it didn't really detract from the rest of it, really, for me, anyway. And not in this one, you know. But, yeah, it wasn't subtle. You're absolutely. Absolutely right. It was, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But, yeah, it didn't bother me too much, mate. I think I've just. As I said, I've just. I just know that this is what to expect from an RTD episode these days, to be fair.

Speaker A: Gotcha. Yeah, fair. That's fair.

Speaker B: One thing I have noticed. Well, I haven't seen anyone pick up on me, and maybe there is nothing to pick up on, but I noticed the baby. When it did the giggle, did the giggle. It went. So what is that? It's not the. Is the toy maker coming back as well?

Speaker A: Did it?

Speaker B: Yes. I haven't seen anyone mention this. Yeah, the baby did the giggle. You know, the. The thing that's trapped in the algorithm.

Speaker A: Oh, right. Oh, really? I didn't.

Speaker B: I didn't pick up, which. Yeah, no, it did. Well, I haven't seen anyone pick up, and I'm starting to think I imagined it. No, no, the. The baby, the God. You know, the stolen.

Speaker A: Oh, sorry. The God baby. Yeah, I did not notice that.

Speaker B: No, I haven't heard anyone on any of the pods I've listened to mention it yet, although there's a couple I haven't finished, so maybe they do. But, yeah, I'm gonna have to go back and watch and check now because I. I have broken the golden rule and only watched this once because of time restraints. But, yeah, it did. I'm pretty sure it did. It did. The giggle.

Speaker A: Hmm.

Speaker B: Because comrades harden. Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm questioning myself and I'm sure it did. There was a scene where Conrad or the Ronnie or someone was holding that baby and it did the giggle laugh.

Speaker A: Wow. I did notice that, mate.

Speaker B: I am questioning myself now.

Speaker A: The toy maker could see the reason why.

Speaker B: That sure might have the toy maker as well.

Speaker A: Well, the thing is, mate, we are talking about these gods, aren't we? We've. That's very much been the underlying kind of threat, I guess, since season one, since Russell came back. Is this different gods? Right. And one thing that's. This. Well, one thing that's really possible is that Omega is now a God. Because Sutek wasn't always a God, was he? I mean. I mean.

Speaker B: A pantheon God.

Speaker A: A pantheon God, should I say? Yeah, he was a God of whatever it was back in the day. You have to go and watch Pyramids Of Mars for that. I can't remember exactly what. But this new sort of pantheon thing, he was just, you know, brought into that. So there's no reason why Omega can't do the same. But if we're talking about a group of gods that the Doctors supposedly defeated, then there's no reason why, you know, any of them can't come back. Maybe difficult for old Mister. Mister. What did you call him? Ring a Ding. I can't remember what you called him, but.

Speaker B: Oh, Mr. Mr. Dingaling Dingling.

Speaker A: Yeah. It'd be difficult for him to come back, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah. Just because he can afford to do that animation again.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. But, mate, who bloody knows at this point who they're going to bring back? Because you could. You could. You could leave it at a reasonable and sensible amount of things to bring back with just the Rani and Omega. But when you consider you've got Susan in the mix as well, and we've got Poppy back from space babies, which.

Speaker B: I did not see coming in a million years, I cannot work out how Poppy fits into this. She's got to be important, mate, because the Doctor stresses Poppy is real when he's plummeting towards the Earth. Yeah. I feel like she's going to be a pivotal point of the story somewhere.

Speaker A: She is, mate. Defo. Yep. And then you've also got this mention of Gallifrey and all this stuff. So there's loads of things that are being thrown back into the. Into the cauldron. So what magic Russell's cooking up? Who knows, mate? So the toy maker could very well make an appearance again. Who knows?

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, Rogue came back as well. I wasn't surprised to see him. I've been expecting him to pop up again at some point.

Speaker A: Rogue. That section. That looks bloody awful, mate. I don't know when he's. That was like when you're on a zoom call with somebody and they've got those random weird effects in the background. It looked like. It looked pretty bad, that. I don't know when that was filmed or how that was filmed.

Speaker B: But, yeah, yeah, it did look really ropey. I mean, again, where is this Disney money gone? Probably on that set. But, yeah, it did look. It did look pretty ropey, that, didn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, that bone palace, that did look really good.

Speaker B: Yeah. What were those big old bone dinosaurs roaming around? What were they? Yeah, I mean, they look pretty cool, but what are they? Well, I guess that's just something Conrad likes to. I don't know.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it's just a part of Conrad's. Don't know. But it was cool when one of them was walking through this little town square bit where Ruby was having a chat with somebody and the hoof came down, but then it was invisible almost.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: It went sort of semi transparent and didn't harm anyone and then just walked off again. So. So, yeah, it's.

Speaker B: That's where the Disney money is. So, yeah, it's all in that. Actually, Matt, what's asked you about the characterization of the Rani? Because I've seen a few people say the Rani is being written to be more like the Master than the Rani. I can kind of see that. I don't. It doesn't seem. It didn't bother me as much as it has some people I still saw. Sorry, what's the actress's name? He's playing the Rani now. Archie Punjabi. I thought she was great as the Rani and I really like seeing this character back. So, as many people know, I love the Rani, especially Time of the Rani. Thrilled to see a flashback to that in this as well. So, yeah, great performance from her. I can see why people are saying she's more like the Master than the Rani, but I think there's enough. There's enough similarities between us two characters to kind of forgive it for me personally. Anyway, I think so far she's been great. But, yeah, I was a little worried when Maria, our writer, put in the chat about this line about the Rani and the Doctor being lovers in the past. It wasn't as bad in the episode as I was expecting, I have to tell you, because it was said in such a way that you could totally write that off. You know, people said they looked like Lovers. It doesn't mean they were. If, if it had been something else, if that had been confirmed, I would have been like, no, no. But, yeah, it wasn't as bad as I was expecting that. That particular line. I just still didn't particularly like it. I don't think it was needed. But yeah, I. What do you think to the actual characterization of the Rani, mate? Do you think it's. Do you think people are right to say that they haven't got the character right? That it's. It's just another Master clone? You know, it's just. It feels like the Master, not the Rani. What do you think?

Speaker A: I don't know yet. It's so. It's so. It's not a cop out, but I'm just. Next week. So much hinges on that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I really think I have to watch this and next week together as a package to see. But so far I don't. I'm not really. I think Archie Punjabi is really good at playing this type of. Of character. The only thing I'm. I can't. I watched. Who was it that I was watching a. Or listening to a review of this yesterday? I can't remember. I'll put it in the show notes if I remember, but somebody mentioned that this characterization is at odds with each other because on one hand it's got that real kind of Bond villain wanting to take over the universe. Very much Master vibe about them and it's just a carbon copy of what you would so say, for example, if this character came back and it wasn't the Ranni, it was the Master, that you wouldn't really need to change anything in terms of the performance, everything. It would. You could get away with saying, yep, this is how the Master would be. Very calculating, very cruel, all that stuff. But on the other hand, I felt like it was a bit cartoonish and somebody. I honestly can't remember, they said that this type of character would be really suited in the Sarah Jane adventures. It's like that kind of over the top, almost like cackling away. Yeah. A bit panto. So it feels a bit like. I don't know, it feels a bit Sarah Jane in one hand, but on the other hand it feels like just the Master. So I'd love them to sort. To find that middle ground because I think, you know, going back to Kate o' Mara's portrayal of the Rani, it didn't feel like she was that bothered about what was going on in the rest of the. The world or the galaxy or the universe, whatever. You know, she wasn't really. She didn't have sort of big grand plans like this, you know, she was just sort of small scale, another Time Lord. You know, she happens to, you know, time in the Rani. Underrated, I'm gonna say, mate.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. I love time in the Rani. It's a lot of fun. But I mean, I think the people. People like the characterization of the Ronnie when she does all the experiments. And she's a very clever character, isn't she? I mean, the Master's clever, but he's also reckless. You know, the Rani is much more calculated. She. She thinks everything through, you know, So I think people wanted to see maybe a little bit more of that. I think also people were a bit. Not surprised. But at the start, you know, when she turned, like, the wife into flowers and the kids into ducks and the husband into an owl.

Speaker A: That's Harry Potter, wasn't it?

Speaker B: Yes, again. And people were saying, well, that's, you know, does the Rani do that? But other people have said, but then she did turn someone into a tree in Mark of the Rani. So you think, okay, so maybe it's just an extension of that. But I get people's concerns with it. And again, it's. This is the problem. This is the danger when you bring back a beloved character like the Rani, like Sutek, like Omega. You gotta treat it. You gotta sort of treat the source material with a bit of respect. And for me, they haven't crossed the line with the Rani. And I think you're right. I think I need to wait till next week to see how it plays out. I'm certainly enjoying Archie's performance, but I do get people where people are coming from. You know, the plan and the way she's been written. It could. You could just put the Master in there and take Alarani and it would be exactly the same. So I get what people mean.

Speaker A: Yeah. We had a little flashback. Russell loves a flashback, doesn't he?

Speaker B: He does.

Speaker A: We had a little flashback to Kate. Omara.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: As the Ronnie from the best bit of Doctor who you will ever see in your life. You know what I'm talking about, mate.

Speaker B: I do, 100% agree. Yeah.

Speaker A: If you've not seen Dimensions in Time before, you've missed out on the single best piece of Doctor who you'll ever see.

Speaker B: It's something to behold, isn't it?

Speaker A: It is, mate. Yeah. So interesting that they use that clip of her and not, you know, the Mark of the Ronnie or Tommy Ronnie, you know, any of those.

Speaker B: Yeah. Actually, my. This is the problem of only watching an episode once. I thought it was a clip from Time in the Rani because she got that gun, but maybe it was. Did they show a clip of all three? They did, definitely. Dimensions in Time was definitely in there because I saw people say in Dimensions of Time is now canon, so that you definitely write one of the clips. It was so quick, mate. I have a feeling they might have showed, like, one of each story, but I might be wrong.

Speaker A: They probably did, mate. Yeah.

Speaker B: I thought I saw Time in the Rani in there, but I might be getting mixed up with, you know. Yeah. Anyway, it was great to see and like you said, Russell loves a flashback. We also got to see some Doctors again. This is getting a bit. This is something else that used to be special when you'd see clips of previous Doctors, you know, you'd be like, oh, wow, it's being done. It's been done a few times now, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, we've got quite a few. We got Paul McGann in there. All right. Yeah. Come on, Paul. Maybe Paul McGann's back. Just bring the whole bloody. Just bring them all back.

Speaker B: I heard it. Do you know, when Russell took over again, I heard a rumor from someone that's, I don't want to be one of these people. My source told me this guy is pretty. He's. He's. A lot of what he said's come true. And he did tell me they were planning them again. Spin off. It was part of Russell's great master plan when bringing the show back, you know, which we know he had, you know, the whole Hooniverse thing, which is kind of crumbled around his ears. But I have heard that recently somebody else said, yeah, there was a McGann spin off plan, but because the way the show's gone, that has been canned now, obviously. Take a pinch of salt. I'm not one of these people that's like, I know something you don't know. My friends told me this. It's just rumor. But I tell you what, mate, if there's even announcer truth to that, I'm heartbroken because I think the one thing all Doctor who fans pretty much or the majority of would agree on is that we would love a McGann spin off, you know, the 8th Doctor Adventures. It would be super. McGann would be phenomenal. But anyway, it's. We can't cry over what could have been because it's just rumor. But I hope that, in a way, I hope it isn't true. Because I would, for years just thought we would be amazing to have a McGann spin off the problem. You know what? I think they're frightened of me, if I'm absolutely, brutally honest with you. I always think that the reason they would Never do a McGann spin off is because if it proved to be more popular than the actual main show, it would be embarrassing. And I actually think there's a good chance of that happening, if I'm honest. So I. I think they're like, no, no, no, we'll leave that there, leave that there, but give the public what they want.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know what, mate? This has happened with Star wars, the Series andor.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that second season that's on at the minute is just. Just brilliant and it just fantastic. Yeah. And it's miles better than the sequel trilogy, especially the Rise of Skywalker. Anything can beat that. Absolute pup. But, yeah, andor's amazing. So much better than the. The main films. You know, the main saga stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, yeah, you put. That's probably a thing. I think if there was a McGann spin off, it would be way better potentially than. Do you know what, mate? Because we've only seen. I'm not talking about the big finish stuff, but we've only seen one on screen proper before. I'm not talking about Night of the. Was it Night of the Doctor? No. What was the thing he was in the webisode that.

Speaker B: I think it was Night.

Speaker A: Something like that. I'm not talking about that. Talk about the TV movie. Think about the hundreds of possibilities of stories to tell between the TV movie and when he came back to regenerate into the war Doctor. Just think about how many. Oh, just an infinite number of places he's been to. Stories and adventures and everything, mate. It would be so good.

Speaker B: And he looks so good. He's got a bit older, but he still. He's got that sort of craggy looks. He just would be. It would just be brilliant. Let's face it, he would be. Yeah.

Speaker A: Oh, Paul.

Speaker B: Russell could have been.

Speaker A: For the 500th time, we know you listen, please do this, do the Paul McGann thing. Just do that. You'll make everyone very happy.

Speaker B: I know you're going to be watching the movie again now because every time you mention it, it gets planted in your head and you think, I shall feel like watching that. You must be overdue another yearly rewatch of that by now.

Speaker A: That's coming up.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Every time I talk about you. Oh, yeah. I'll watch that. I'm the same. I love that. I actually love the movie, the McGahn movie.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker B: By all its faults, I love it.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was just about to say, despite the reputation it's got and despite the, you know, whatever you want to call it, I don't know what the. The adjective is, but it has got a nice, you know, a very cool feel and vibe to it. And Paul McGann is just great. It's just such a good actor.

Speaker B: And just think of the music, mate. Every time I think of the movie, I hear the music. The gorgeous soundtrack to the TV movie.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Talking of music, what do you reckon to old Murray Gold this week?

Speaker A: Old Murray Gold. I'm kind of done with him, mate. I really am done with him. There's no point hiring Murray Gold when every other episode just sounds like stock music. What's the point? What is the point of having him on board if you just go, like, from series. From series, whatever you want to call it, 2005, up until, I would say, I don't know, mid Capaldi, somebody could put on a piece of music for Murray gold. And I'm 99% sure I'd have a decent crack at telling you the title and what series it was from. Maybe. Probably what episode it was from. From Shoot his stuff when they bought Murray back. I have no clue. Like, if you'd have played a. If somebody just pressed Play and said, right, what episode from season two of Shoot his era is this from? Unless it was his, like, main. Little bit of theme music that we've heard. A little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, with the confetti cannon last week.

Speaker B: I know, yeah.

Speaker A: That bit of music. I'm not talking about that. The other stuff, I wouldn't have a clue, mate. No clue whatsoever.

Speaker B: No, I mean, this week I wouldn't say it was bad or anything, but you're right, nothing stood out. I can't think of anything in it, but not saying it's bad. Just.

Speaker A: Yeah, just Murray Russell for the 500th and 501th time. 501st time. Come on, we're giving you this for free, mate. Like, there's no consultancy fee here. We're not charging Bad Wolf or the BBC giving us for free. Come on.

Speaker B: We can't bring Dudley back. He's no longer with us.

Speaker A: Oh, Dougie.

Speaker B: We could bring Segan. He might be waiting in the wings.

Speaker A: Well, the thing with Segan's music was that at least it was aimed very much at providing more of a sort of an atmospheric feeling for the story rather than trying to be more sort of in your face. And because, let's be honest, mate, pretty much every week we've said, what do you reckon to Murray's music? And we said, yeah, nothing great. Can't remember some of it. Some of it's all right. But the main problem is, is that whoever they've passing this all onto to do the final mix, they're just screwing it up so you can't hear what people are saying anyway, it's a mess. The audio side of things, that's Belinda.

Speaker B: Got a theme, mate. That's the thing companions normally get. We know the Doctor's got a scene, they play it every time he kicks, you know, into it, into gear. But Belinda, I haven't picked up. I'm sure she must have, but I don't know.

Speaker A: I have no idea.

Speaker B: Stand out. No, dude has got a theme I love. Actually, I will say this, I love Ruby's theme, mate. You're probably. We haven't heard it that much, so you probably think. I can't even think what it is. But she played it on the piano on the rooftop, didn't she, in Devil's Court. Now, I do remember thinking, that was beautiful.

Speaker A: That was kind of cool.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Can't think of anything else.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know, actually, we need to speak about Belinda and ruby. So Belinda, 10 seconds. Useless. Absolutely useless in this one. And Verada Sethi, she's been great as this character since the start of this season, but the writing that she's been given in some episodes has been weak. Like you. You were so, like. At the beginning of this season, you were so like, okay, cool. We've got a very different dynamic with this companion. She's not taking any of the Doctor's beep. She's very strong. She knows exactly what she wants. And then very quickly, that started to fall to pieces because we had two problems. We had just rinse and repeat every week where at the opening one minute of the episode, she's stropping around, demanding that the Doctor takes her home. Literally within seconds, she's all smiley, ready for an adventure. Here we go. We're outside the tardis. If the Doctor tapped her on the shoulder and said, where you going? Literally, moments ago, you were. You were digging me out because I wasn't taking you back to Earth. What's going on? I feel like this is a bit of a yo, yo situation. You're up, you're down. What's going on? So she's like, that every week. And then this week she may well have not. There was one scene. Sorry, there's a couple of scenes. The first one, she bolted off into the woods and screamed, oh, yeah, that was it. And then. So she's got massive doubts about what's going on because her. Her mum and her grand turn up and they start quizzing each other about when Ruby was born. That's not. Poppy was born.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And they can't remember. And the reason why they can't remember, obviously, because it didn't exist. So all the doubts start coming in, she runs off, she screams. She can't handle it. She comes back, she grasses him up. Oh, yeah, she grasses the Doctor up. They come and cut him off and then she gets cut off anyway. And that's literally it. That's. Mate, I'm confused about what they're doing with her character because at the very beginning, the things I just said were in play, very strong. And then you also had this thing about the Doctor saying, oh, you look just like this person that I encountered. Yeah. And then that, you know, the TARDIS alarm bells are going off. You know, there's all this great mystery, like, who is Belinda, how they're going to connect it back to that character from the previous season and all that stuff. Where's that gone?

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. Is that. Surely that's going to be answered in the final, isn't it? I mean, another thing to another thread to wrap up. I mean, I gotta say, mate, Varada Seth, who has been severely let down by Russell in terms of the characterization of this, you know, this character, because one of the things Russell used to be good at, mate. And I'm sure if you go back and listen to our, you know, old podcasts, we always used to praise Russell for great characters and, you know, and especially when it came to the companions. Poor old Belinda, she's so one dimensional, I don't feel I know her at all. Could be a casualty of the eight episodes, whatever. But even so, mate, Russell was really let her down in terms of, you know, building up her character. Because I'm not being funny, I don't really care about Belinda as a character. You know, even this mystery, like you said, is kind of just evaporated into nothing. I do hope that gets answered next week, mate, because if that's like a hangover into the third series that may not even happen for two to three years, I'm not going to be interested. So I hope that gets wrapped up and there is at least something to this Character of Belinda. Because right now. Yeah. There's nothing to her.

Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. Yeah. He's on the phone to Moff. He's like, look, what do I want to do with this? I've got this companion that I've written one line of dialogue for.

Speaker B: Come on, Stephen, you've done the mysterious mystery girl before. What? How did you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: How did you answer it?

Speaker A: Yeah. I need to progress this character, give her a bit of a unique thing. What have you got?

Speaker B: Well, what you do, what you do, Russell, is you throw her into the TARDIS timeline, mainstream, and then the following episode, you don't explain how they get out, you just ignore it. And then they are the impossible girl. That's how you do it.

Speaker A: How do they. How do they peel the layers away when they're talking about this stuff? Because there must be. There must be a point where. I don't know, with some shows like Stranger Things does this very well. Where they have. And I assume lots of shows have this, where you have a proper writing group, so you have people in a room. And when you're working out the structure of all the episodes that form a season, you have people that very, very clued up or should be on every single character, their history, their backstory, how it. How they link to all the other things and in the wider scope of the show, how all these things are linked together and how you can and can't write certain things and all the rest of it. It feels like with Doctor who sometimes. Yeah. You've just got Russell and Moff having a drunken conversation at, like, 3 in the morning, and then there's a scribble in a notebook that Russell wakes up to with a hangover and he's like, oh, what was that thing he said? Oh, mysterious girl thing. I'll do something with that.

Speaker B: It definitely feels underwritten, this series, doesn't it? Well, both series, particularly. Shoot his first series, very. Not the sort of standard we've sort of expected from Russell. You know, it feels a little bit. First draft a lot of this stuff, doesn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. Such contrast, mate, to your reviews back, like, from Eccleston onwards. Said all the time, like, how good the characters and how well rounded and how. For the most part anyway, you know, and how well they're connected and. And all that. And now it just seems like we're. We're at the other end of the spectrum with that stuff. It's very weird.

Speaker B: What. What about Old Rubes, then?

Speaker A: Yeah, so Old Rubes. I was a little bit confused at first because she turned up on the doctor's doorstep and she seemed very, very, very confident that she knew that the world wasn't right, that whoever he thinks he is, he's got it wrong. He's actually this other person and all that stuff. And then fast forward five minutes when we see her again and she's chatting away to Shirley. Is it Shirley?

Speaker B: Yeah, Shirley Bingham.

Speaker A: Shirley Bingham. And it feels like she's not like that anymore, like she's questioning things and Shirley's like, you know, asking her questions and they've got this common thing where they're. They're seeing through the lies and they're seeing through it or. And she can't quite put a finger on what's going on. It's like, well, you know, five minutes ago you were really clued up on what was going on because you went and told him, you know, that everything's false and he's not who he says he is. And then we fast forward and so again, I thought that was written a little bit at odds with each other, but, I mean, Millie Gibson is playing Ruby exactly as you'd expect her to. She's very good at that. I think she. She's one of the highlights of shoot his era for me. And, yeah, when she dropped in to this, it feels like, you know, she'd been in it every week. You know, she's very good actress. She just picks the part back up and. And she's back into it. So she plays it very well again, but a bit like Belinda. I thought she was underused a little bit. Seems like her and Shirley had this big plan in place. They find this iPad from somewhere, from UNIT somewhere, and they. They reprogram it and they see what's going on and they've got this plan. But again, another thing that will be wrapped up next week, I guess, mate. Next week, before we get back onto your thoughts on Ruby, I just want to remember, I hope there's no reset button next week.

Speaker B: Dude, there will be.

Speaker A: I hope there's not a. The world exploded, but now it's not. Now it's all good.

Speaker B: It can't. I don't think it can do anything else. I don't. I can't think of any other way. They're gonna. They're all gonna wake up and it's gonna be the real world. I don't know. I can't see anything else. I'll be very surprised. I'll be very impressed if they manage to think of a way around tying everything up without doing a reset. I Just think it's almost inevitable. Talking of underused. Oh, sorry, Ruby. Very good. Yeah, I agree, but I. I hadn't thought about that. You're absolutely right. She was. It felt like she was the only one who got a memory when she went to see the Doctor, and then, yeah, later on she's sort of recognizes Shirley Bingham and then finally it clicks. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, that didn't make sense, but I didn't pick up on that until you mentioned it. But you're right. Talking of underused, Mel, you probably forgot she was even in it, because I did. Until you just said the word underused. And I thought, oh, Mel was in this. Let's hope she gets something to do in the final, because all she did this week was put the bins out. So I. I do hope Mel gets. You know, surely Mel's got to meet the Rani after, you know, that's. That's got happened. Sure. That will be such a wasted opportunity if we don't get Mel and the Ronnie in the same room, you know, after time in the Rani. Come on.

Speaker A: Yeah, surely what's going to happen is there's going to be a. There'll be an epic showdown with Omega, the toy maker, the Ronnie, and on the other side, the Doctor will fashion some kind of thing and it'll be, you know, in Avengers Endgame, when all the allies come through the portals and there. Big epic music, you know, we'll have all the previous Doctors come through the portals and all the companions, and there'll be a big showdown and then. Because that. The name of the next episode's the reality War, isn't it? Yeah. And then there'll be a big showdown and then there'll be a big reset and then it'll be like, ah, none of that really happened. It's a junior moment from Dallas. Is it Dallas?

Speaker B: Dallas, yeah. Well, it's Bobby in the shower.

Speaker A: Yeah, Bobby.

Speaker B: Sorry, from Dallas.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker B: I can absolutely see it coming, mate. I got. I got visions of him, you know, the Vindicator has been used as the clock arm, hasn't it? Yeah. Which I thought was a really cool idea. I'm questioning everything now. I really wish I'd given this a second watch. I got visions of the Doctor ripping that off the wall and resetting it all, or grabbing the baby and making a wish. I don't know, something. It's gonna be. It's gonna be a reset. I'm almost certain. As I said, if it isn't, I'll be very impressed. But I can't see any other way around that. You can't be in a imaginary world and not wake up by the end of it.

Speaker A: So, yeah, he'll put some shades on. He'll use that as a guitar.

Speaker B: Oh.

Speaker A: And then we're off to the races.

Speaker B: All I can say is we've got a heck of a lot to tie up next week. Russell. I think we've got an extra 10 minutes. Am I right in saying it's a slightly longer episode next week?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yep, Yep. That extra 10 minutes has got a lot of work to do. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker A: We wait with. I think, yeah. To be honest with you, mate, regardless of your feelings, not, you know, you specifically, but fandom's feelings on this particular episode in the season, I do think that, you know, we're all. We're all really waiting to see what's going on, that it has done a good job of setting up next week's episode. So I think we're all quite intrigued to find out exactly what's going to go on with all of these things. I mean, I can't remember a time where there are so many questions that remain unanswered going into a finale, mate. So we wait with bated breath, you know.

Speaker B: Well, I am. I'm excited for it, I have to say, considering how, you know, I've been feeling about Doctor of late, I haven't exactly been chewing at the bit to watch the episode when they drop every week, I have to be honest. But I am looking forward to next week, mate. So I just hope it delivers on some level. I'm not, you know, I just. Just want to walk away from it saying, yeah, that, that was all right, but I don't know. We'll see.

Speaker A: We shall see.

Speaker B: We shall find out.

Speaker A: We will. Yeah. So tune in, obviously, next week for our review of. Of the reality war ever happens with that. God. Right. Is there anything else on your notes, dude?

Speaker B: No, I don't think so. I think whatever happens next week, mate, we're gonna have a lot to talk about. But, no, I think I'm done on my notes.

Speaker A: The only thing I've got left on my notes, just very, very quickly, are two things. One was Conrad and his. His use of the. The God of wishes, the baby. The baby is still a baby. So I'm assuming that by the time when the Ronnie went and kidnapped the baby and killed the family, everything has happened really quickly to now, because.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I suppose so, yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because it felt like all the people in this. In the wish world, it felt like this was their sort of norm, day to day life. But I get the impression that that's all been set up really quickly. So that was interesting. That seems like it's all happened very quickly because it's still a little baby. And the second thing was Anita Dobson's performance of the Rani is very, very interesting in terms of. I. I like what you said earlier about is she gonna turn and, you know, defect over to the goodies to help take down this other version of the Ronnie. Because there's something about her, although she's a little bit sinister when she's talking to Conrad, she's like, would I lie? Yes, I would. But in this instance, you know, so she's got that kind of sinister nature about her. But she's obviously not as intense and as scheming and grand planning as the other Rani, so. But I thought her performance was good, though. I've enjoyed seeing Anita Dobson as the Rani.

Speaker B: Yes. I like it, mate. It's a real contrast between the two Ranis. I mean, obviously, you know, the most recent one feels like the Rani that we're used to, but it is a nice double act, I think, these two. I hope there's enough room in the final for their, you know, this double actor brief. I hope they get some good scenes together because they are great when they're together, whether they're being sort of comedic or whether they're being villainous. They both seem to be able to play. Play that both parts well. So I'm hoping we get a bit more from them next week together. Yeah. And I'm putting money on it that she'll turn on her. I don't know why. I just get this feeling she's Feels like. I think that's why she's been made to be the underdog. She's gonna have a bit. Be. Have enough of being pushed around, I think. And I would like to see Brian May pop up as well. Just. Just throw him into the mix as well. Why not?

Speaker A: He'll take the Vindicator off the wall and use it.

Speaker B: Start playing at guitar. That would be. I'd actually love that. Make it happen. Russell.

Speaker A: Russell, for the 502nd time. We can't keep doing this, mate. We're gonna have to bill you at some point.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: Come on.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: All right. Let's put some scores on this bad boy.

Speaker B: Whose turn is it first?

Speaker A: It's you to go first, mate.

Speaker B: Oh, no, I. I was hoping it wasn't. I'm a little Bit torn on my score, mate.

Speaker A: Do you want me to go while you think about it?

Speaker B: Go on. Yeah.

Speaker A: So I'm gonna give this a 7 out of 10. I'm giving it a 7 because for the most part I thought it was a reasonably good watch. I think it falls apart in some areas because like I said at the beginning, not a great deal of substance happens, really. I think it serves its purpose very well as a setup episode into part two, which is weird because in the past I think some of the. The first parts in the two part finale have been better than the second part in some ways, but the reverse in this case, conceptually. Some great stuff. It looks visually fantastic. Some of the performances were really cool. Just a really wacky, strange, great idea, you know, and all that stuff. But it does fall apart in some other area. So I can't really go any higher than that. But it wasn't a bad watch for me, mate. It wasn't an amazing watch, wasn't a bad watch, it was just a good watch. So I'm gonna land on a seven for it. What about you?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, that's made my life easy, mate, because I'd written seven. If I was on the countdown now, I'd be showing my pad to Susie Dent just to prove it. But no, I'd written seven. And the reason I was questioning it is because, well, basically what you said I thought, you know, it did didn't really hold together that well in some parts, but I did enjoy it. So I wasn't sure if it was a 6.5, but I wrote 7. You've given it 7. I'll give it a 7.

Speaker A: I'll give it a seven. Okay, so. Oh, I don't know where our score's gonna go next week, dude. Honestly, out of every episode this season so far, next week is going to be either, I think an absolute genius episode with nines across the board with everybody, or it's going to be an absolute beep show. We've got to be back to fours and fives, maybe less, who knows? But there is a lot of pressure on next week, let's be honest.

Speaker B: There's a lot of pressure, mate. And for. For lots of reasons as well. This is the last episode of Doctor who we're going to get in a while. Yeah, it's got a lot of weight on his shoulders. I really hope it doesn't collapse under that weight.

Speaker A: Let's see, let's see. And I think, okay, so a seven from me, a seven from him. And on that note, let's end it there, dude, for a longer than usual episode of 426.

Speaker B: Alrighty.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much for listening to another episode of the Big Blue Box podcast. That was 426 and our review of Wish World. Sevens all round. Not bad scores there at all. We'd love to hear what you guys think. Let us know over on the socials. You can find us just by searching for the Big Blue Box on We're on X or Twitter, bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, hit us up. Let us know what you think or jump into the discord. There are links to all these things over on the website bigbluebox podcast.co.uk. while you're there, you can listen to the episodes for free and you can check out the reviews and articles from the writing team. So get involved. Honestly, we'd love to hear what you guys thought of this one. Next week we'll be back obviously at some point in the week to give you our thoughts on the reality war, the finale to see season two and as we mentioned, a real high pressure, interesting story to see how they tie all of this stuff up in a neat little bow. Also make sure you are following or subscribing in your preferred podcast podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss an episode when it lands and you get notified when they do drop. And yeah, we just love to have you listening along as we chat all things Doctor who. We also do a monthly roundtable with the the writing team where we get all those to get all those guys together and just chat about anything to do with Doctor who. It's a good laugh. So you'll get all those as well. Don't forget to check out my co host channel over on YouTube. It's called the Geeks Handbag.

Speaker B: Yes, I have a YouTube channel called the Geeks Handbag. Go check it out. Lots of geekery stuff on there. Also on all the socials known as the Geeks Handbag.

Speaker A: Indeed. Go and stalk him for a bit. How? Right, until next week then. Dude. My name's Garry. My name's Adam and remember. God, I keep swearing. Oh, I've not even had a drink either. I've only had a cup of tea. Right, edit that out.