February 2026 Roundtable: The Race for Showrunner Heats Up

Garry: Hey, hey, hey. Who fans and welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Matt: My name is Matt.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Adam: My name's Adam.

Jordan: And my name's Jordan.

Garry: And welcome to the February Roundtable. Hey hoo. Fans, welcome back to another episode of the monthly Roundtable. We hope you've had a cracking month since the last episode. We hope you're keeping well and that you've all managed to do something Doctor.

Adam: Doctor Who related. Who was that? Who was that Ghostly voice? Does that matter?

Garry: Who do you think?

Jordan: Sorry, that was me because I forgot what we were doing.

Matt: I liked it so I kind of joined.

Adam: I thought it was you as a. Very theatrical.

Garry: Very theatrical.

Adam: Yes.

Harry: That was. Yeah, it was good.

Adam: It did.

Matt: I was vibing with that one.

Garry: That would have been perfectly suited. Yeah, on the October Roundtable. That would have been.

Jordan: I'll remember that for next time. That's.

Adam: Yeah, yeah.

Garry: All good. All good. We like a spooky vibe now and then.

Adam: I wish I'd introduced myself as Maria on the. On the intro. My name's Maria.

Garry: Just to throw everyone. We are. We are joined this month by Matt, Harry, Adam, the Geek's handbag and Jordan. Sadly, no Maria. Maria's busy on. On today, but she might pop up later. She might come and say a quick hello and a goodbye and hello. Goodbye. Hey, Maria. Bye, Maria. Right, that was. That was Maria's contribution. Very good. But no, she's. She's busy and she's gutted because she loves doing. She loves doing the roundtables, bless her. So she'll be back next month, I'm sure, for the March Roundtable where it could be a spooky intro once more, could be a normal one, could be a whatever. Who knows? One upside to Maria not being here is that she hasn't won the. The who related because she has been quick as insert thing here something that's very quick. She's been in there like swimwear and has won the last two. So anyway, we've got some stuff to talk about. Who fans. We've got nothing concrete, which is good in a way, I guess. We have no official news from the beep from potential streaming partners from Russell Nobody. It's very quiet. It's almost like when McCoy and Ace went off into the distance to see if the. If the tea was getting cold and then that was. It feels like that in a way. I know it's luckily.

Adam: Yeah, luckily Harry's got a source with. With loads of rumors.

Harry: I don't know what you mean. Atom.

Adam: Somebody must have a source.

Garry: We were joking beforehand that. Because on a serious note, that's literally all we have to talk about is kind of rumors and sort of stuff that's knocking about within Doctor Who that we think is. May happen or, you know, it's not as. Like I said, it's nothing concrete, but over the last few weeks and months, we've seen so many podcast episodes and YouTube videos where everybody has a bloody source. It's like, yeah, according to our sources, this is going to happen and this person's joining and all the rest of it. And we had a good giggle before we recorded. There was a. Yeah, there was a couple of. A couple of podcasts that. Or YouTube channels that remain nameless that always do this. Yeah. According to our sources and exclusive insider info, this is going to happen and then it doesn't. And then it's age, like milk and. And all that. So it's a good laugh, eh? At least it's a good laugh being a Doctor Who fan sometimes. Gone are the days where Adam and I were back in, like, the early years of recording, where we had absolute 100% concrete good news to talk about. Not every month, but every week. Every week there was something official.

Adam: Yeah. To talk about.

Garry: It was good old days, eh?

Adam: Which is the really rubbish newspaper that always puts out loads of rumors and stuff as if they're fact. Is it the Daily Mirror or Mirror, like. And they got one right. One year they got one right and now everyone's like, yeah, but they got that one right. It's like, is it the Daily Mirror? It's one of those.

Garry: It was the Mirror. Yeah. I can't remember exactly what it was, but we spoke about it on an episode because we. We started that little segment with. Take this with a pinch of salt, because it's just, you know, an old rag here in the UK that just does.

Harry: If my memory serves me right, I think it was Davros in the Magician's Apprentice, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah, something like that.

Adam: Cool. There's a. There's a. An episode I haven't watched for a while.

Garry: Yeah, Old dav. Yeah,

Matt: old.

Garry: Which version of DAV, though, You know, controversy.

Harry: Michael Wisher.

Garry: Ah, Michael Wisher. It was indeed.

Adam: All the way.

Matt: Yep.

Garry: Anyway, let's see how you all are. Let's welcome back Jordan. First of all, because Jordan's been absent for all, you're probably thinking, who's Jordan? Who is Jordan? You know Jordan. How have you been?

Harry: I don't know.

Jordan: I'm very good. I've just. I've. I'm on reading week from university, so I've actually got five minutes till I. Not. I am doing work and if my lecturers are listening, I am still doing. It's not a holiday. It's a holiday. But, yeah, no, I'm good. Yeah.

Garry: Cool. Yeah. Jordan's been busy. Busy be. Jordan was like. Like, I don't know, if you were to give him a job title, like, you know, assistant editor of the Big Blue Box. At one point he was just churning out hundreds of reviews and articles and was on all the roundtables and everything, and then he just vanished. Everyone's like, where's Jordan? But, yeah, Jord went back to uni to study acting and is doing very well.

Jordan: Yes, thank you. Yes. Yeah. First some. Two ones. So we're doing really well.

Garry: We are doing well.

Jordan: Good now, but we're doing really well.

Garry: Just want to put this date in the. Out into the ether, into the web, the interwebs. Tuesday 17th February. Saying it here on the podcast. We joked about it earlier, but if or when at some point Jordan becomes the next Doctor. This is where we said it. 17-02-2026. Yeah, this is where we said it, because we're going to be at a convention, all of us, and we're going to be like, we know the Doctor. They'll be like, no way. Right, Fire up the Big Blue Box. The February roundtable. 26. Yep, there you go.

Adam: I would love that because I've already got a picture with Jordan. I could say, look, I've met the

Harry: Doctor, so you don't have to pay a fortune either.

Adam: Yeah, free selfie. It's a bit like, you know, when Chris Marshall was constantly rumored as being the next Doctor. And the only reason I wanted that to be true is because I've got a selfie with him. I was like, yes, let it be him. So I can say, I've already met him. So, yeah, I've got that selfie lined up. Jordan ready for the big announcement?

Garry: Yeah. So we've all got pictures with Jordan completely free. Yeah.

Harry: Jordan, just don't be alarmed if in May I give you a picture of yourself and ask you to squiggle on it and you go, what's this for? I was like, a few years time, it'll be worth something.

Matt: You know what?

Jordan: I have actually been practicing my autograph whenever. When I was. When I was working over the summer, I was at Primark, and whenever I would have to sign a delivery in, I would do the most elaborate Blooming autograph you've ever seen in your life. And I was like, just in case. Just in case. People be prepared.

Garry: Well, actually, Jordan, you have had a series of professional looking shots done in not.

Jordan: Yeah, headshots.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when we get to the capital event in May, Jordan's going to turn up with this little decorator's table with a black cloth over it and a chair like, what are you doing here? And a massive stack of photos.

Harry: Just.

Garry: So, anyway, Jordan's doing very well. We wish Jordan all the best. You've got another year and a half, I think, or something like that. So, yeah, that's Jordan and what he's been up to. Matthew, how have you been, buddy?

Matt: Hello. Yes, very well, thank you, Garry. Been quite busy with one thing or another. I've been spending a lot of time recently. Well, I am getting married this year, so. Yay. So, yeah, I've been doing lots of planning, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been doing anything Doctor Who related. I've. I haven't done much, but I've managed to listen to a couple of big Finnish releases that have come out recently. Cybergene being one of them. A War Doctor story, the early War Doctor with Jonathan, Carly and. Yeah, very, very good audio. Very good story. It's kind of, it's kind of like Genesis of the Cybermen. But if the Time Lords were. If it was part of a Time war, I, I don't want to spoil anything more than that, but it's, it's kind of a reinvention of the Cybermen in, In the different way. Is well worth a listen. It's. Yeah, it's kind of. You think, oh, they've been and done that already. Spare parts comes to mind. But, you know, it's, it's completely different sort of way around it that they go and it's. Yeah, it's. It was really engaging and Jonathan Carlick, just brilliant as the War Doctor. Really, really good. Yeah, you kind of. It was almost.

Garry: Sounds good.

Matt: Yeah, it was almost like you couldn't really tell the difference between the two at certain points. And it's. Yeah, very good. And then other than that, you've. I've been listening to the Imposters, the new third Doctor, Elizabeth Shaw and Sarah Jane story that's come out recently and, yeah, absolutely brilliant, that one. Um, I just love especially the pairing of, um, Sadie Miller and John Colshaw. Um.

Garry: Was it John Colore?

Matt: I believe it's John Colore. I always get the. It is, yeah, yeah. I always get the John Colshaw and who. Who voices the Brigadier. Oh, this escaped my mind. But yeah, yeah, I always get them too.

Harry: John Colshaw is.

Jordan: Does the Brigadier and then it's Tim Trelaw, I think is the third Doctor.

Matt: Thank you.

Jordan: Thank you.

Adam: But they are really.

Matt: Someone knows that and it isn't me. But no, they. Every time that they are, they are together in an audio. It's. It's. It's brilliant. It's. It just brings a smile to your face and it's a really good story as well. Kind of brings sort of Android invasion vibes to it, but in a different way. Really worth checking out. It's really good. So, yeah, that's. That's been me.

Garry: Nice. Very cool dude. Can imagine you're listening to Future Wifey in the background. Matt, can I get your opinion on this venue thing? You're like, I'm busy.

Adam: Is he going to be a Doctor Who themed wedding? Matt, Is it going to be like a. Are you going to be dressed up as a Cyberman and a Dalek or.

Matt: I have been preaching for this idea for a while and it has been met with a very enthusiastic no, but I'm sure I'll squeeze something.

Adam: Did you know when Garry got married, he was, you know, when Garry got married he was dressed as C3PO. So you got a.

Matt: You got, you know what pictures. All that didn't happen. But I could see it, Kat, if you could.

Adam: Garry's wedding was like, you know, the end of A New Hope, Star Wars. You know that when they. The ceremony be at the end where they get the gold medals.

Garry: That's pretty.

Adam: Pretty much exactly what Garry's wedding looked like. That song told.

Matt: Brilliant.

Garry: Shove off.

Adam: That's how I imagine.

Matt: But I'm sure I'll sneak you something. Something who related. Yeah.

Garry: You know that Matt's. Matt's girlfriend is like, will you not shut up? We are not having a Doctor Who themed wedding. Stop putting ideas in his head. But that's cool, dude. Yeah, you've got the. Plenty of planning to do and all that. So. Yeah, nice one. But you can sneak in some who, though. It's all good. Harry. Mr. Shakespeare, how are you?

Harry: I'm all right, thank you, Garry. Gearing up for a. For a house move. So I've not really done anything Doctor Who related, but I have done something Sarah Jane adventures related. I've been going through that again and. Oh, I love it so much.

Garry: I know. What a time, eh?

Jordan: What?

Harry: What a time.

Garry: What a time.

Harry: I remember being there after school. Because I'm that young and.

Garry: Shove off as well.

Adam: Sorry.

Harry: Yeah, no, it's just every time I go back to it, I forget how wonderful it is and how just. Just consistently good that program is. And yeah, Elizabeth Sladen is just wonderful. And, and. And the ensemble as well, like the Attic crew are just. Just br. There's some really good ideas. It's so scary. Like, for. For a children's show, they really kind of push the boundaries of that one.

Matt: But also it still.

Harry: It still feels safe. It still feels like at the end, oh, everything's going to be all right. And it fits very, very nicely on children's BBC kind of thing.

Matt: So.

Harry: Yeah, no, that's just been great. I'm about. I've just watched the Wedding of Sarah Jane.

Garry: Oh, David Tennant, is it? Matt Smith?

Harry: David Tennant. David Tennant was in that one. And yeah, I kind of. I want to keep going, but also I know that eventually I'll get to the end of it and there'll be. There'll be no more new ones. But, But I have been thinking. Well, there is the Ronnie Takes on the World Big Finish, which I could purchase, which I'll be very interested in listening to. Uh, and I believe Matt did a review of it at one point and you liked it, right, Matt?

Matt: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. It's. It's perfect in the best possible way. It kind of honors the Sarah Joan adventures, but it's. It's its thing in its own right. I have kind of asked Big Finish on multiple occasions if there'll be more coming out, and I've met with a stony silence, so I live in hope. But I think. I think somebody else did the second box set. I believe it was Jordan or it might have been Maria, but I know somebody reviewed it, but yeah, they're both. Both are absolutely brilliant.

Harry: That'd be so cool to listen to because I. I always thought, like, as much as you can't have the Sarah Jane adventures without Sarah Jane, I always thought that, like, Luke, Clyde, Ronnie, all of them guys could. Could carry a. A show on their own kind of thing. So whether that continued like in audios or books, that's something I've always been sort of interested in. So, yeah, I might. I might give that a listen at some point. That would be really cool. Yeah, I don't think they're going to make any more, though, which is unfortunate because I think it was in the. The Vortex magazine, and I'm not quoting it here, I'm not sure if I've got it. 100. Right. But I think, you know that they're saying that series like Ronnie Takes on the World and also I think Smith and Sullivan aren't exactly big sellers because they don't have like, doctors in them and that kind of thing. So they're less likely to make more of those, which is a shame, but. But yeah, better than nothing, I suppose. So. So, yeah, Sarah Jane adventures. Been watching that, been having a great time and I think, yeah, when you're going through like a big life transition, like moving house and whatever, watching something really nice and, and familiar and comfor perfect. So, yeah, that's me.

Garry: It's just very nice.

Matt: Just worth noting that we don't know for sure. I mean, last time at the Capital, the Capital Cutaway, I. Because that had just come out around that time, I think it was the second one. I spoke to one of the big Finnish employees that was there and I said, you know, dying for more. Can you give me anything? Is there going to be any more? She kind of looked at me a bit funny, sort of winked and, you know, so don't quote me, but I think I can safely say yes. However, that was a year ago, so nothing's happened, so I don't know. But.

Harry: Well, they're going until 2035 now, so they got plenty of time. If it's a budget thing, they can save the pennies. Come on, big finish, give us what we want.

Garry: Nice one. They normally record with like years in advance as well, so if she gave you the little wink and nudge.

Adam: They've got Tom Baker stuff banked up for years and they. I remember they, they said he's. They've got audios with Tom in the vault ready to release the next five years, I think, at least. So, yeah, they do record quite a bit in advance. Yeah,

Garry: nice one. Nice one, Harry. Bit of sja, you guys. Big finish and all that. Very good. And lastly, the geek's handbag, Adam himself, he's back, back on the podcast. How you been, bud?

Adam: Yeah, I'm good. I can keep mine short and sweet, mate. I've done absolutely nothing doctor related, I'm afraid. The show's dead to me. No, not really. I just haven't. I'm afraid life's been getting in the way. I've been back and forth to the uk, packing up my house and then moving back here to the us and I just haven't had time to do. To do much at all. So, yeah, short speed for me. I mean, all is good, all is well. But the last thing I watched was the, you know, the Fish spin Off, which still hasn't aired here in the US by the way. Land between the Sea and Actually, I couldn't. I really wanted to jump on for the second part of the podcast, the Round Table, where you guys finished up your overall thoughts on the Fish Spin Off. I, I think most of you, from what I can gather, kind of enjoyed it for the most part. That's, that's the vibe I got from the, from our WhatsApp chat. I think it's only me and Maria that were sort of really down on it and what a rubbish finale and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, it, I have to say it did, it did fizzle out for me, the spin off. I, I thought it started off really promisingly and I don't know, I may give it another rewatch at some point. But yeah, I found the finale really disappointed. So that's the last sort of Doctor Who sing ish. I've, I've watched. I think I haven't listened to a Big Finish in ages. You know, you guys talking about Big Finish, I used to be really, really into the Big Finish stuff. I used to buy like three or four audios a month and, you know, it used to be a thing. I'd go on the website, see what was coming out the following month and pre order it. I haven't listened to a Big Finish in a while, so maybe now things are settling down my end. I might dip into a bit of Big Finish at some point. They're doing a lot of sales recently. I mean, I keep an eye on the socials and see they're doing a lot of sales, so I might grab something to listen to. I like the Tortured Ones, you know. Do you guys ever listen to the Torchwood Big Finish stuff?

Harry: Oh,

Adam: really?

Harry: Years ago. Yeah, years ago I listened to a few and then more came out and I didn't buy them and then I just, I just stopped because. Because that's the blessing and the curse with Big Finish. Like, with their output. Like, I, I, once it goes on, I feel like I've kind of lost. There's a barrier to entry kind of thing. I don't know. But the Tortured ones, now I'm they, right? I don't know.

Adam: I think that's why they're like a little 45 minute hour story.

Matt: Yeah, definitely.

Adam: The last one I listened to was really good. It was, it had. It was Michael Palin doing it. I forget what it's called. It's got a really long, strange title that's the seascape.

Matt: Something tropical thing, isn't it?

Adam: Landscape. Landscape. Yeah, it was really, really good. Really, really good. Very experimental. But Michael Palin was just. His voice is great. Anyway, so, yeah, I was. That's the last one I listened to and I was really impressed by that. And it reminded me of the stuff Big Finish used to do back in the day, where they would sort of a bit. Took a bit more risk, if you know what I mean. It was a little bit edgy, a little bit unusual. It wasn't just a straightforward story and it wasn't predictable like I find a lot of the stories are now. So that was a good one. I just wish I could remember what it was called. But, yeah, I do. I like the tortured ones. Little hour contained stories. And they're normally. They're normally pretty. Pretty good. Well, the ones I've listened to anyway. Anything with Murray Melvin. Anything with Murray Melvin. I love that man. I was so sad when he passed away. He's so good as Billis. And I think there's four tortured audios with him and there might be five

Jordan: in my mind with him. It was called Dead Man's.

Adam: Yes.

Jordan: And they wanted the train.

Adam: Train. Yeah, yeah.

Jordan: And that was brilliant. That was. That's the one with him that read in my mind. There was another one, I think, called the Sigil. That was really good.

Adam: Yeah, yeah.

Harry: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Matt: Anything with Murray Melan, with Torchwood. Solos have been amazing. He did. He did quite a few towards the end of Aliens Among Us and Gods Among Us. He played quite a part in that, I believe. But then, yeah, he's. Especially Desmond Switch. That's. That's a highlight. Go back to that one every Halloween because it's just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Adam: Yeah. 100% agree.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah, they are good. That story you're thinking of is called Tropical Beach Sounds and other relaxing Seascapes.

Adam: That's it. I knew it was a really long title. Yeah, good one. That is good. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: Torch would have got some really interesting out there titles. The one that sticks in my mind is Something about the people you kill in Middlesborough, I think was the title of one story.

Adam: Yeah.

Garry: Which was. Yeah, that was weird.

Matt: I think that was a. I'll tell you the one.

Adam: Just.

Garry: Good.

Matt: Not that I think that was a Tracy Ann Oberman one, wasn't it?

Garry: I think so, yeah. Yeah.

Adam: I'll tell you the one that doesn't leave you if you've listened to it is Corpse Day with Bern Gorman. That is dark as hell. Have you guys listened to that one.

Garry: What's it called? Corpse Day.

Adam: I think it's Corpse Day. I'm pretty sure it's called.

Garry: Is that the one with.

Jordan: There's another one with him. That's. That's really good as well. I can't think of the title.

Matt: Corpse Day. Is that the one with.

Jordan: He's in the women's prison. He's the doctor in the women's prison.

Matt: Is that the one with Andy Davidson as well?

Garry: Sorry.

Jordan: Yeah, of course, Dave. Yeah.

Adam: It's very dark. I wouldn't recommend it as the first one you go to. I mean, I thought it was excellent, but I don't know, I'll never listen to it again because it was really disturbing. But it was very well written, as James Goss, I think, wrote it. But it's. That's probably the darkest Torchwood audio I've listened to. I was a bit freaked out after I listened to that one, but it was good. But, yeah, maybe stick to a lighter one if you're diving in.

Jordan: See, 90s mental was like that for me, where I kind of all. I just. That sticks in my mind, that one.

Adam: Yeah,

Harry: yeah, yeah.

Garry: Funniest title. Very short and sweet on the Torchwood range. Has just got to be. Ooh, dunnit. Ooh, Done it.

Matt: Nice.

Garry: Done it. Eh?

Matt: You gotta play with part of a trio.

Garry: I don't know.

Matt: Written by Yanto, wasn't it? Was it not?

Harry: Ah, yeah, it might be.

Jordan: I think it's the trio.

Matt: It's the.

Jordan: The three people who survive the impossible planet and the state.

Matt: Yes, you're correct, it is.

Jordan: Each one of them got an audio.

Garry: Yep.

Jordan: But I can't remember which one that

Harry: is, but I think that was with

Garry: one of them, Zach.

Harry: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that survivor.

Garry: Yeah. And then you're right, yeah. You got the other stories and the other ones. Yeah. Huh. Pretty good. The old Torchwood range in it.

Matt: It's such a.

Garry: Now that we're talking about.

Matt: Such a shame that it's coming.

Harry: Yeah, I know.

Jordan: I thought they would just carry on forever.

Garry: What was the one with Ace like? I think it was called Sabotage. Was that any good?

Jordan: They were quite good because she worked really well. There's a character called Mr. Colchester. Sister.

Garry: Yes.

Jordan: Who got introduced in like 80 and got to.

Harry: But they work.

Jordan: But they work really well together because he's really grumpy and. See, but she's. She's older,

Matt: so.

Jordan: Yeah, so, yeah, no, they're well worth listening to, the ones. The ones with those two.

Garry: Oh, cool. Yeah.

Adam: I'll tell you the One you'd like, Garry. And of course I can't remember the title of it, but it's. I can't remember the character. You know, the, the. Oh, no, I'm gonna give up because I can't remember the character name or the title of the audio. But there's one. I will send it to you in the waste chat as there's a really sort of more light hearted one with. Who's the other police guy that's only. He's like only in the odd scene.

Garry: Oh, PC Andy Davison. Andy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam: So there's one with him and I think it's Ben Gorman. And it was just a really. It was a lot more light hearted because he's a more sort of in brackets comedic character. And it was just them. And I think it's the first one he did useless with the information. So I'll send it to you, Garry, in the thing. But that was a fun. That was a more fun listen because a lot of the tortured ones are pretty dark. That one was still dark, but it had a more comedic element and I. I think you'd really like that one, Garry. I'm gonna look it up while you guys chat. Hang on.

Matt: I think the weirdest thing I open

Adam: my big Finnish app.

Matt: I think the weirdest thing for Sergeant

Garry: Andy Davison Gooseberry

Matt: was to turn up in the 8th Doctor stories.

Garry: That was a. Oh, the Stranded.

Matt: Yeah, that was an absolute blindsided thing. It just popped up.

Garry: But yeah, that was pretty cool.

Matt: Works really well there as well.

Garry: Yeah.

Adam: Can't you put these into order? Can't you put these into. It's. It's really basic, isn't it? The big finish up. I haven't opened this for ages. Can't you put them into. Just search Torchwood.

Garry: I'm not sure about the app. I've used it in a while, dude. No, but there are two stories though with. With. With Bern Gorman and Tom Price. One's called Gooseberry and one's called the Three Monkeys. He can't remember. Look at the state of him. Got his app open.

Adam: Oh, I found it. Yeah, No, I found it now. Right, there's that one. So Torchwood might be order. Yeah, yeah, the hope.

Jordan: That's the one that I remember that's really dark. Where he's in the women's prison. Yeah, it's based off of the Moors Murders. That's the one.

Garry: Oh, yeah, that covers him in an empty grave, basically.

Harry: Yeah, I remember.

Jordan: That is fantastic. But it's not one you listen to for A start.

Garry: Agreed.

Adam: Ghost Ghost Mission is the one I think you like, so that's a more easygoing one.

Garry: Ghost Mission.

Adam: Ghost Mission with PC Andy. Yeah, Pop.

Matt: It is probably the darkest one I see. I've listened to. It's Reese.

Jordan: Which one Puppet was really good. Yeah, that was really.

Matt: Poppet was all about.

Jordan: Yeah.

Matt: Welsh legends and kind of supernatural, and it was entirely led by. Yes, Reese and just a couple other supporting cards and core. That one gives you shivers.

Adam: All right.

Jordan: It was all the little dollies and it was the little sort of weaved dollies and that one. Basically any torture story that has a horror thing, it's good to listen to those.

Harry: But it sounds like. Just hearing you guys talking about them and how good they are, I. It's making me want to check them out.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, it's good, I think. Yeah. Poppet was written by someone who wrote a guy that. Also another really good one. Stuart. Stuart Somebody.

Jordan: Is this Stuart Pringle?

Garry: Stuart Pringle?

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, they're really good. Anything by them is really Laura Mooney and they're really.

Harry: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: I think my favorite across all of

Jordan: these finishes ranges, anything with them are.

Matt: Yeah, the Third Doctor, another Cyberman story, but the third Doctor in Joe. Joe Grant or Joe Jones as she plays in that one. He picks her up as after the Sarah Jane Adventures was set and takes her on a very harrowing Cyberman story. It's very dark, that one, but excellently written. Some of the best big finish I've listened to in years.

Garry: Oh, cool. Sounds good. Anyway, this is not a big finish podcast. Crikey, they've got their own podcast for that.

Adam: Yeah. Nick Briggs is rubbing his hands together,

Garry: thinking, oh, I know, right? We need some commission. I think in a minute. I don't want to get a phone call from old Briggsy. I'm not up for that. I'm not down for that. He sounds. He sounds like such a friendly, lovable guy, but I think if he's got a bit of a mare on, I think he could be hard work. I think it could be.

Adam: Especially if he gets the modulator out and phones you.

Matt: Yeah.

Adam: What are you doing?

Garry: You stupid beep. You stupid beep. I can't believe you. Beeping beep. Oh, no, Briggs, he's on. Right, That's. That's big finish stuff. I think you can tell listener that we are. We are fans of. Of some of these Torchwood stories. So any of. Any of them that we've mentioned, they're all great. Go and. Go and check them out. They're normally quite. They're normally cheap. Ish. Thought of. The older release is now over at Big Finish. I think you can pick them up for like, five. Somewhere between five and eight pounds or something. So pick one of them that we've spoken about, dip your toe in and have a listen. They're pretty good. So it's been good to catch up about Big Finish so far. Let's get on to our first theme of our discussion for the roundtable, which is showrunners. Let's talk about showrunners, because that seems to be the. The main theme of fandom right now. And we joked earlier, before we recorded that we've got absolutely soddle. Official concrete news from anything. Like the BBC are very quiet, obviously, Disney are very quiet. Those guys have just bloody scarpered, you know, they've left. They've left the house on fire with half a bucket of water. So great. Cheers for that, lads. So they've gone all. It's now is Russell just sitting there, you know, taking just selfie after selfie on bloody Instagram. Don't know what he's up to with Doctor Who. I assume you'd hope so that he's right in the Crimbo special, or at least has got partway done with it. So, yeah, hopefully that's happening. But that's it. Nada. Nothing else official. So it's down to fandom to create its own echo chambers, its own problematic, stupid bloody whatever. We were saying earlier that there's been so many other podcast episodes and YouTube channels that the opening line in these kind of dark, quiet times is always the same after three, everybody. One, two, three. According to our sources. Yeah, it's all that, isn't it? What's that, then? Hp, ketchup, whatever. No one's got a source. Let me just make that perfectly clear. Nobody has a source these days. It's not like, you know, when Adam and I, you know, a few years back, used to rock down to the BFI and we'd see a certain person wandering around outside and they'd spill the beans because they'd had like six pints of whatever, you know, that would be a. We have spoken to a source because we've spoken to them face to face and they are, you know, working at the BBC or they're a writer or something like that. Nowadays it's just like, oh, yeah, saw this thing on. What was it? Twitter, I think it's called. X Threads. Instagram. Yeah. Someone's dreamt up this bloody story and now it's true and everything. So no one's got a source. So we're talking about rumors today, talking about showrunners. It seems to be a two horse race at the minute. This could end up being like one of the biggest, like surprise announcements ever where they're just gonna say, right, Russell has now joined Disney. He's buggered off. We've now got another half a bucket of water with the factory on fire. Now it's down to this person to sort it out. And it's gonna be some person we've never heard, like not in the running at all. Just come in at the last second like somebody sniping an ebay item from you with like three seconds to go. But the two horses in the lead are Pete McTighe. He's the, he's the guy that I think everybody is kind of. If you want, if you want. This sounds like a negative, but it's not. If you want to play it safe because you've got somebody who knows the world of Doctor Who inside out and has worked on it and done all the things, Pete's your man. The other person in the running is a guy called Jack Thorne. Now Jack Thorne is a guy who's an incredibly successful writer, has written loads and loads and loads of things. One an absolute beep ton of awards for a lot of things that he's written. Very, very good at what he does. The difference with him though is that he almost works on.

Adam: On.

Garry: On some. Who did he work on? Who in the end? I know early in the early days he was going to. He was going to write an episode or two in the fifth series for Matt Smith's first one, but then something happened. Read into this how you will. If you want to read between lines, you feel free to do so. But apparently he amicably, amicably parted ways with, with the beep and ended up not writing for series five. So Jack Thorne is a guy that massively successful, almost like Russell in a way in terms of he's just had kind of hit after hit, if that makes sense. Loads of very good successful shows under his belt. However, unlike Pete, is not been planted in the world of Doctor Who for the last decade or, or two decades, whatever it is. So those are your two. Your two front runners. I don't know if you guys have heard any other names. I've not heard of any. Anyone else who's gonna throw their hat into the ring. Jordan is sadly taken up with the acting side of things, so he's going to be in front of the camera, so he sadly can't do the, the writing stuff. But your thoughts, please, on who would you prefer to be the neck if it was to be one of these two guys, who would you prefer? Somebody like Pete who's already, you know, in the world of Doctor Who, or somebody fresh and new into it, like Jack Jordan. What your, what are your thoughts?

Jordan: I, I would probably go with Pete just because I know that he's kind of got a track record with Doctor Who. I, I recognize the name Jack Thorne, but I cannot for the life of me think of what he's done most recently.

Garry: Adolescence.

Jordan: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I think I will still go, Heath. I think because like you said, he's kind of, he knows the world of Doctor Who. However, I wasn't a massive fan of some of his Jodie Whittaker stuff, and probably the less we talk about Barkley and Salt kind of falling in love with each other is probably for the best. I, I, I hoped that that hadn't gone down the Cyberwoman route. And then it did, and I was like, oh, God's sake.

Garry: Really?

Jordan: So, so I'm gonna say him, but I'm gonna say it with a bit of reputation, if that thing. But it, I mean, let's honestly, it wasn't Cyberwoman, let's be honest. But anyway, it was, it kind of fitted that. But also mainly because I really liked the, the trailers he does for the box sets. So I think he might be someone that's a little bit more kind of like, here's the new stuff. But let's also not forget the stuff that came before. So he would be my choice, but Jack Paul would be quite good now that I know what he's. The shows that he's done. And if it's gonna be someone like Netflix or HBO or kind, whatever, the kind was money. And he would probably know how that world works. Jack Thorne. So that obviously drop my head. I would probably go with Pete.

Garry: Gotcha. Right, okay. Gotcha. That was so funny, by the way. You just face in hands, like, oh, they went there.

Jordan: It was really good up until about halfway through episode four. And then I was just like, no, let's not go down this. And then after that, it's gonna be a sound a bit crude at University that seemed to cause a lot of conversations, You know, but yeah. Oh, God.

Garry: Oh, no. Okay, cool. So you would prefer Pete just because aside from a few little bits here and there, you're sort of generally happy with.

Jordan: I think he's probably a bit More of a safe bet for the BBC, I think.

Garry: Safe. Yep, yep, gotcha. You don't want to go with the guy that wrote the Enola Holmes movies?

Matt: No,

Jordan: no, not particularly.

Garry: Oh, no, no, no. Okay. All right, then. Cool. So Pete. One for Pete, zero for Jack so far. Adam, come on.

Adam: Well, I was gonna say. No, I mean, I was gonna say Jack Thorne, until you just mentioned that he wrote those awful Enola Holmes movies, which is completely thrown a spanner in the works. Now, really, the reason I was going to go over Jack Thorne is because I would like to see the show go in a bit of a different direction.

Garry: Now.

Adam: I think we've had, since the show go back in 2005, it's had a bit of a formula to it. It's sometimes described as a bit soap opera, isn't it, in terms of the way the stores are written? Because I think they really wanted to bring in sort of like, you know, when it came back, they wanted to sort of like people to be like it used to be. You'd sit and have your dinner and watch Doctor Who. And I was going to say the family audience, but you know what I mean, they wanted it to appeal to, you know, the majority of people. And I think that's kind of worked for a while. I think it tailed off a bit, obviously, recently. I think with pigmenty.

Harry: You.

Adam: He's a nice guy. We've met with bfi, so nice guy. And he would be a safe pair of hands, for want of a better phrase. I think he'd be a very capable showrunner. I think he would produce it well. But the reason I perhaps don't want him to be the new showrunner is simply because I feel like I know the sort of Doctor Who we would get from him and it would be very similar to what we've had since 2005. And I would just like to see something a bit fresh and new. So I'm sort of nothing against Pink Mata. I think he'll be good if he does end up being showrunner, but I would like to see somebody I don't know particularly, you know, well and someone else try something new with it. So Jack Thorne. And also he's just produced the new Lord of the Flies BBC drama, and I've only seen the first episode of that, and it's pretty weird and a bit unusual and it's trying new things. And I. I think he got a lot of complaints because of that. People were saying, what's all this fish island stuff about? And all this, and. And it's very slow and it takes its time and. But I kind of respect that because it's, it's not afraid to challenge a viewer to actually watch something rather than just, you know, like Russell said in recent interviews, have sound bites and be very fast and zany and fun and it's, it's taken itself very seriously. So if we were to get something like that from him with Doctor Who, I think that's the sort of Doctor Who I'd like to see us get. I think. But I don't know. I mean, is he the right man for the job? I don't know. I don't know enough about him, but I just would pick him because I'd like to see someone completely fresh that's not been connected to the previous eras have a go and try something new. So I'll probably go with Jack Thorne. But I would kind of be okay with either if I'm honest, to be a bit diplomatic.

Garry: Okay, well, let's put a one for Jack then. So that's one apiece.

Adam: I'll go with Jack.

Garry: Okay, cool. One thing that might sway you guys over a little bit with old Jack. I know I mentioned the, the Enola Holmes movies but. And Jordan will appreciate this one, but he was the co writer on the Stranger Things first shadow play at the Phoenix Theater. So he does have that and he's done a couple of other little bits as well in that kind of genre. So he does have a bit of kind of, you know, sci fi fantasy drama.

Jordan: He kind of has something to do with horror somewhere along the line. Which is kind of why I want Doctor Who to be again is just be scary again rather exactly being safe. I want them to be people, to be petrified. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Garry: So yeah, bear that in mind for old Jack.

Jordan: Doesn't make Enola hones the companion. We're good. No one wants that. Jack, if you listen. No one wants that.

Garry: Nobody. Nobody wants that. Okay. All right. One all then. Harry. What's what say the. Is this an egg situation or is this a non biting of thumbs towards either person? Please explain this in Shakespearean thing, please.

Harry: Well, Sira, I would bite my thumb at the idea of Pete McTighe being showrunner. But I would welcome greatly Jack Thorne being our showrunner. The reason being. And it's, it's kind of a. It's kind of a daft reason. To be fair. I must admit I have not watched anything that this guy has written. Jack Thorne. But I have.

Garry: He hasn't seen Enola Holmes.

Harry: Oh, I Think I have seen Enola Holmes actually. Enola Holmes might be the only thing of his that I've seen. And maybe one or two episodes of his Dark Materials when they're on the telly. But, yeah, no, I, I mean, so much of his stuff, I mean, I'm just looking through his Wikipedia right now, and so much of his stuff is just like, I've heard people raving about it and saying that it's really good or like with the case of Lord of the Flies, like, just not necessarily like people raving about it, but people are talking about it and it's kind of in the sort of zeitgeist, if you will. And so, so that already kind of puts him in good, good stead. Yeah, I've got to, I just 100 agree with Adam, to be honest. Like, I feel like if we get Pete Matai, it will be very predictable. Nothing against him, he's a decent writer. But I, I, yeah, I kind of feel like I'd be happier if we had someone completely new. We had no expectations whatsoever of what he was going to be like as showrunner. And you could have Pete McTighe come in every now and again to write an episode, that would be perfectly fine.

Adam: So.

Garry: Oh, great, I didn't get the job, but now you want me to come in and, and save it a little bit, do you? All right, then. Well, this is going to cost you Netflix. How much money you got? Yeah, like that situation, probably.

Harry: Yeah, you can have X amount of money and a free Netflix subscription.

Garry: I want a Netflix T shirt. A subscription for a year minimum.

Matt: Without ads.

Garry: Yeah. And a pass to get in and

Harry: out the door and a mug which says to dumb on it. That would be, that would be the full package. No, but it'll seriousness. Yeah, no, it's not a case of like, like, who's better than who? I, I just feel like out of the two, if we're making the choice based off of what would help Doctor Who right now, it would probably be. So, I mean, you know, we, we, I mean, flipping hell. We had Russell come back a second time and we thought, yeah, this will be fantastic. And, you know, it, it went the way it did.

Garry: So what are you saying, Harry?

Harry: It, you know, some episodes were okay. Some.

Garry: They were. Yeah, you know. Yeah, they were. Yeah. So.

Harry: So, yeah, I just think someone, someone who's never written for the show before and also has a pedigree of writing some really successful stuff. I think off the basis of that, I'd go for Jack Gotcha right But that too. That's if it's either of them. I mean, it could be Mark Gattis might rock up and, and say, surprise, guys, it's me.

Garry: That is a possibility. Yes. Okay, so two, one in Jack's favor so far. Matt, hit us with your wisdom, please. What say the.

Matt: Well, I don't know about wisdom, but you know what? I, I've never heard of Jack, Jack Thorne before. Actually you said it today. I, I hadn't heard this rumor. I'd heard about Pete McTig, but not about Jack Thorne.

Garry: Do you know, Pat, because you haven't got any sources, mate.

Matt: That's the problem. I know. I need to go shopping. I've run out of ketchup. I've run out of mayo. It's terrible.

Harry: Just go on Reddit.

Garry: Yeah.

Harry: You'll be able to find someone on

Garry: there with a sauce.

Harry: We won't name names, but you know, a few people at Bad Wolf have probably lost their jobs by being potty mouth on there.

Jordan: Yeah.

Matt: Sorry, Matt, but I would say, I would. Looking at his IMDb, I would probably say Jack Thorne actually, or someone as different as Jack Thorne. I didn't know if we were going to be looking at who we thought would make good candidates, so I had a couple of other ideas. But if, but Jack Thorne I think would. He's fresh. He hasn't got pre existing notions and ideas of, of how it should be. He can come into it with a fresh mind, take it right back to basics, which is. I think that's exactly what the show needs. It's so caught up in itself that it's kind of forgetting that it's just a man with a box, you know, exploring time and space with a few friends. It's got so much more than that that it's, it's getting stuck. Anytime it tries something new, it's getting stuck. And I think someone that's been in that world for so long, like Pete McTig or Teaguer, I'm not quite sure how he said, but would maybe fall into the same trap. I love his work. I think especially the collection trailers. I think he's put so much heart and soul into those and they're beautiful. However, I think a fresh, a completely fresh face for going forward, for who is exactly what it needs. Yeah. Like Harry was saying, I think with Russell T. We were so happy. We like fandom as a whole just lit up, I think majority when he was announced as coming back. And you know, careful what you wish for, I suppose because to not put Too fine a point on it. It's not been the what are you saying? Reunion that we hoped.

Garry: What are you saying?

Matt: I'll put it bluntly. I was expecting a lot more from the man himself and it left me feeling a little bit disappointed.

Garry: We all were. Yeah. But, yeah, remember when Adam and I spoke on whatever episode it was when that news became official, because we spoke about the various rumors leading up to it. Not that we had sources or anything like that, but when we got to the actual news that when it was confirmed, we were like, this could be amazing. This could be like a, you know, a victory tour for. For Russell already. And we were like, we're not going to count all the chickens just yet, but this is a. Could be a great decision. And now look, I remember us saying

Adam: as well, one of the things we kept saying about Russell is how good he was at writing characters. I remember specifically saying that, like, you know, one thing we can rely on is that Russell's good at writing characters. He draws you in. We didn't really see much of that at all from him in. In the RTD2 era, which is really disappointing, really. I'll tell you, one of the reasons I think that Jack Thorne could appeal to the BBC as well is because they will love the fact that he's got that massive hit of adolescence. I mean, that thing was huge. They were, you know, that's a big, sparkly hit and they would. So I can see why if he is in the running for it, they would think, oh, adolescence, writer. Yeah, we want that. You know, a bit like when Chibnall came in, he had broad church. You know, you can see why the BBC might have been excited. Oh, the writer of broadcast. Yeah, we'll have him. Obviously we know how that works out. But, you know, so I can see the same thing with Jack Thorne. Well, you know, I mean, I have to say, you know, thanks to RTD2, the Chibnall era is now not my least favorite era of Doctor Who. So, I mean, yeah, so. But I mean, I think, yeah, I can see why he would appeal. They would be looking at that, thinking,

Matt: you're looking back on the timeless child. Some rose tinted glasses now, are we, Adam?

Adam: Well, someone reminded us that we gave. I think we actually rated Timeless Child really highly, me and Garry. Well, we can't honestly remember, but yeah,

Garry: we did rate the story reasonably well because it was a. It wasn't too bad, the actual episode and the story. But in the episode we did dive into the timeless child bit and we were like this Is making us feel a little bit uncomfortable. This is a little bit.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: We're not sure about this bit, so other than that bit, I think we rated the episode reasonably well.

Harry: You both gave it a nine out of ten.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam: I was going to say I think we rated it high. Yeah. One day I'll go back and reassess the. The chimney era. I'm just not ready for it yet. But one day I will go back.

Garry: I'm sure he feels better though, now that he's, you know, by default been bumped out of the bottom spot. I'm sure he feels pretty good about that. Yeah.

Adam: Now he's joined the mothball on the sofa. Come and go. Come on, Chris, come and grab yourself a glass and sit down with me. You've done your stint, lad.

Garry: It's like I told you. I told you this would happen. Christopher, come and have a glass. Look, look, look over here. Look at these guys clamoring to be showrunner. They don't know what's coming.

Adam: I told him, he's got Pete McTigh on the phone.

Garry: You've already had your turn. He keeps asking me back, you know, he keeps 100% ask me back, ask things. And I say no every time. But yeah, those two are just like, yeah, just waxing on. On the good old days, but really thankful that they're not involved in it anymore. So, okay, I think this is a three one situation now. Three for Jack.

Matt: I would say so.

Garry: One for Jordan's. Jordan's faith in. In Pete is. Is holding strong.

Jordan: Sorry, Pete. I tried to defend you. There's a reason why I will never play a judge or a barrister or anything like that.

Garry: Just quickly, I'm gonna go with neither. I'm gonna say I don't want either of these two to be. To be showrunner because I think the reasons that. Don't worry, I don't have another name to throw in it. I'm just saying in general, I just not up for prior of these two. I think they are both very good. That's not to take anything away from them at all. I feel like Pete is the safe bet for. He's. He's like the guy that, you know, when you have a routine with something like you go to the same vet or the same car wash or you have the same plumber out to service your boiler every year. It's like you know exactly what the crack is with that. There's no surprises, there's no weirdness. It's like, oh, hey, John, how are you? Doing, yeah, all good boilers upstairs. You know what to do. It's that kind of situation for me. And with Jack, I feel like Netflix are playing it safe, but for a different reason. It's like, well, that's surely to bring in the View in numbers because everybody loved adolescence and some of these other things that Jack's done. This is bound to be like a stepping stone into viewers for Doctor Who, so it's like a safe bet. For that reason. What I would love to see, or the kind of person I would love to see is not these two, because they're not quirky enough. There's no. There's no. There's nothing. There's no thing about them that stands out that, like, oh, they come across like an absolute crazy son of a bitch, but they're absolutely genius writers. Like, there's no weird. You know, like, back in the day, like, John Nathan Turner just used to rock up everything in Hawaiian shirts and, you know. You know, that kind of coolness, that quirkiness that you remember those people for back in the day. Like, these guys are very. I don't know, like, they turn up in, like, you know, like. Like, we, like, we do, like, jeans and a T shirt and. And that's cool and everything. And Jack Thorne turns up in a suit and a tie, and that's all great and everything, but no one turns up in, like, Timmy Mallet sunglasses just for a laugh, so that everyone's like, what are you wearing? Oh, don't worry about these, you know, it's all good, you know, and just brush it off as completely normal. There's nobody with that funny, quirky who, like, I'm really struggling to articulate how I feel, but. Yeah.

Adam: So what you're saying is you want Timmy Mallet for showrunner. That's what you're saying.

Garry: Utterly, utterly.

Adam: Mallet. Mallet.

Garry: Daleks.

Adam: Mallets. Mallet.

Matt: There's a. There's a fiver with your name if you turn up to the Capitol event wearing Timmy Malik glasses.

Garry: Timmy Malik. But, you know, I feel like we need someone who's going to be as much of a celebrity for the right reasons behind the camera as well as the people in front of the camera. If we think back when Moffat was showrunner, we had such a great connection as fans with him as showrunner. Like, didn't really hold much back other than, like, the big spoilery plot points. We got info and news and pictures on all the things, and we had stuff to talk about, and he was just brilliant with fans and stuff, you know, it was really cool. But I feel like, you know, that stuff has been eroded slowly and now we're going back to the days of. Yeah, nobody can bloody say anything. You can't say. What I mean is, you can't say anything about the story, even if it's very slight. You know, like, oh, that extra over there has got a waistcoat on that looks vaguely like, you know, Matt Smith's waistcoat in so and so. Is that a link? No, it's not. But then it turns out it is. Like, why don't you just say that? You know, it's not a freaking. It's not a big spoilery thing that is going to break the show. But everyone. I don't know. Help me, guys. I. I feel like I learned to. I feel like the showrunner needs to be the person that is in the minds of all the people when you're not watching Doctor Who, I think is the best way to put it. And I don't think that Pete McTighe or Jack Thorne are that person. So I think if either of those two was to take over, we would have good Doctor Who or better Doctor Who than what we've had, but I don't think we'd have great Doctor Who. And that is the. The thing.

Adam: The reason I'm. Yeah. The reason I lean towards Jack Thorne is I would like Doctor Who to have a bit more of an atmosphere, like Jordan said about it going dark. And I feel like even though I've only watched one episode, A Lord of the Flies, and it is slow, but it's got an atmosphere to it. It's creepy. Like, I don't know what's going to happen next. You know, it's. It's. And I would love to see a bit of that edge brought to Doctor Who, rather than just being sort of more. I don't know, it's become very lightweight, isn't it? I think Jordan was saying he wants more scares. I think definitely more. More monsters and more scares, for sure. But I get what you're saying.

Garry: Yeah. I mean, some of the stories that you and I have reviewed quite highly over the years have been the creepier, scary ones because they've got such a great feel and atmosphere to them.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: And. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think Doctor Who's at its best when you're. Either. When you. You've got a character that you love to hate, like when you've got a great character as the Master or a villain that's just unbelievably you know, you. You want to see their downfall, but you want to see more of them at the same time. The Doctor Who has no plan, just pull something out of his pocket at the last second. And scary villains and scary atmosphere and scary stuff. I think that all links together to make a really cool. When you just have this kind of paint by numbers, you know, predictable, lightweight. As you were saying, stuff going on just becomes a bit. Yeah, okay. You wrote this.

Adam: I would like to see the. The TARDIS not know where it's landed. It's a bit like the old series, you know, I mean, it's. The Doctor can just flip a switch and go wherever he wants. Now. It'd be nice if that unpredictability of I don't know where we've landed today, let's see what this planet's like. If that came back a little bit, I think would be good, you know, and I think that's the thing with pygmy time. I feel he does. I feel like we would get, like, a lot of continuity to the old series, which is nice in dribs and drabs, but it would be good, I think, to have a bit more of a reset and just take it back to basics a bit and stop throwing in, oh, you know, so and so has come back this week and, oh, it's the return of, you know, Romana or whatever. And, you know, I just feel that peak week time might rely a little bit too much on nostalgia, I don't know, but just going through. Because I. I love the stuff on the collection sets. I love the trailers, they're great. But they are very leaning into, you know, the nostalgia side of things, aren't they? You know, which is great for the collection box sets, but with, you know, a Doctor Who, I. I feel like it definitely needs a freshen up, you know, go back to basics a bit. Yeah, yeah. Leave a bit of the continuity a bit like Russell did with his first era, he didn't bring in too much continuity until. Was it season three, when the Doctor, I mean. Well, there was stuff, but, you know, I mean, there was. He kept it back to basics when Equestrian came back as the Doctor for a little while anyway, it was just the sort of tenant era where we started to get him talking about his people and the Time War and all that sort of stuff, you know, So I think they should try that again.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Because even for new people watching it, for the. Like, I'm class myself as one of those who, when you Watching through Ecclestone stuff, you're like, well, who are you? You know, this is such a cool premise where, you know, he leans into the. Into the mirror and it's like, oh, something about his ears, you know, fresh off a regeneration. But I had no bloody clue what. What all that was about. And then you just discovered it naturally, as. And this is one thing that I'm so envious about, when you speak to people who have just got into Doctor Who or they're about to, is that not knowing of any of this stuff yet, you know, they're about to experience all of these things for the very first time, which must be magical. But, yeah, I get what you guys are saying. We need. Maybe we need a mix of the two. Maybe we need. Maybe we need a joint showrunner system, perhaps. Maybe we need Pete and Jack, because Jack seems to do his best work when he's teaming up with other people, let's be honest. So maybe.

Adam: Maybe a writer's room rather than having a showrunner. Maybe have, like, a producer again instead of a showrunner. A producer in a writer's room, maybe.

Matt: Yeah.

Garry: Yep. And one thing I'm very glad about is that when we talk about scary Doctor Who episodes, not one of you mentioned Sleep no More, which is great, because anyone that you did. I knew. I knew Matt was going to say something. I was waiting for it. And I was going to say, Matt,

Matt: that I wasn't gonna.

Garry: At the Capital. I'm gonna slap you now, slimmer face.

Matt: I wasn't gonna say a word, slap you around your. But you. You still may, if you like. I won't hold that against you. No, I was. I was actually gonna say the. Looking into more of the. The horror side, the more scarier tones that we. That we all kind of crave for Doctor Who. I. I was. I was thinking about showrunners, and I was thinking. I watched a series recently. I don't know if anybody here has seen it, but it's something called Lock and Key on Netflix.

Garry: Yes.

Matt: There's, I think, three seasons of it. And it's. It's actually made by. Well, it was written originally by Stephen King's son, Joe Hill, and then developed for Netflix by two executive producers and writers, a lady called Meredith Averill and Carlton Coos, thinking that series.

Garry: Brilliant.

Matt: And it's got such a Doctor Who vibe to it. Sort of mystery, but. But also just the right amount of scary. But you could also kind of still see it as a family show. I. I feel. When I was watching that, I felt just so reminded me so much of Doctor Who in. In the best way. Not, not, you know, the, the run of the mill stories, but the ones that really pull you in. The ones that, that stay with you long after you've watched it sort of thing. Is it. So some, some. A couple of writers like that I think would be perfect. Someone unknown to. To Doctor Who but have previous experience with writing similar sort of things.

Garry: Yes, no, I agree. Must be frustrating for Jordan, he's such a horror fan.

Jordan: Well, actually, I was, I was, yeah. I mean, it's annoying that they haven't done any like proper scary Doctor Who

Harry: for a while, but I was actually

Jordan: thinking, I saw recently at TIS Theatre there, it was a play called It Walks around the House at Night that was written by someone called Tim Foley who has done Big finish. But it was the right level of scary that you could swap the main character for any companion, stick them in that story. And you had a Doctor Who story. And I was thinking, actually, I thought actually, someone like Tim Foley would probably be a good shout out. He's sort of in Doctor Who enough to know what's kind of going on, but no one's ever heard of him. So he can kind of probably do his own thing with it. I mean, the play is fantastic, but you could, you could literally put a Doctor and a companion in that play and you had an episode of Doctor Who with this thing following them around in the woods for like a week or something in the play. But he would be a good shout. Someone like Tim Foley.

Garry: Yes, I agree, that would be very cool. And the thing is, as well with horror stories, it's like young people are so desensitized now. I'm surprised at who hasn't done like a couple of real like dark Belter horror stories.

Harry: Bring back the empty.

Garry: Yeah, that sort of stuff, you know, like Adam and I are going to show our age a little bit here. But when we were younger, when we were a lad, Adam and I, you know, horror was very. Everything was an 18. Like all the horror stories, all the horror movies, they were all 18s. You couldn't just walk into a cinema and. And just see it, you know, everything was classes too scary for everybody. But the fast forward to today, like my son, a few years back, my son, he would have been 13 at the time, 14. We're on a plane somewhere and he's queued up his films to watch on the plane and he's watching it, Part one. He's watching the conjuring, he's watching all sorts I'm like, is this not scaring the hell out of you? He's like, no. Like just shrugging it off. Like nothing. Like, no.

Adam: The, the horror film seems so tame that we, you know, the things that we used to be 18s when we were like 15 are so tame now compared. I mean, I've just finished watching the three seasons of Chucky, the TV series. And I'm like, I love TV series.

Matt: Brilliant.

Adam: But. But it's so. The violence and gore is like really severe for a TV show. And I'm like, but this is nothing now. This is just, you know, it's, I think over here when it got released as a DVD, it's like a PG13 or, or, you know, it's not even an 18 rated show. And I'm like, what? But there's like eyeballs flying across the room and blood and guts and you know, everything's just like you said, so desensitized now that I'm sat there shocked. I mean, I, I loved it too. It's a great series. I love Chucky, but yeah, I was shocked by smell. Well, yeah, I mean, that's in the White House.

Jordan: In the White House, yeah.

Harry: I gotta just say, on the subject of scary Doctor Who, 73 yards looking back, was, I think, probably my favorite episode. Not because it was the best favorite episode of the Russell 2 Davis era. That is not, not of all time. God, no, but it didn't make a lick of sense. But like the concept, like just the idea, the simple idea of like a figure that's always there, like, and never leaves you. And you don't know, you don't know what she's gonna do or what her plan is. Like, that, that is just, that is just bone chilling. And it's still bone chilling to me. And you know, I have the target novelization of that story and I'm kind of like too scared to read it because, like, I'm too scared to revisit that, that idea. But that is like. But I'm, you know, I'm. I'm a grown man and like, I'm scared by Doctor Who and like, I want, I want that again. And yeah, I think what we can all agree on here is like, we just want something a bit, A bit chilling, you know, a bit more chilling Doctor Who stories.

Garry: It doesn't have to be. The entire season is one long horror show. We're just talking about, you know, an episode here and there that brings the fear of God to small children, you know, in a good way. If that makes Sense. I don't want them traumatized. Like, you know, you'd watch the Exorcist when you were 7 or something. I mean, like, you know, in a good. In a good way. But anyway, this is. This is what?

Harry: Like, you know, I remember watching the Silence in the Library two parter when I was young and like, it was. It kept me up at night and it was so terrifying, but it was also so fun to be that terrified, so.

Garry: Yeah, exactly.

Harry: There's a line. There's a line.

Jordan: Yeah.

Harry: But I'm sure that, you know, someone accomplished like Jack or Pete or whoever that. Yeah. That they'll probably get that.

Jordan: Right.

Garry: Well, they all listen, so. Notebooks out, pens out. This is your. Your free. Bloody hell. We've plugged all the big finish stuff. Now we're helping out the showrunners. I mean, Jesus Christ.

Adam: I think you better watch out the next time you go to a BFI event because Pete McTigh will be there, be gunning for.

Garry: I think Adam says, especially if he doesn't get the job.

Jordan: I do, Steve, that we go in next Sunday. I've got better defend Pete.

Matt: What was it Adam just said about

Garry: that could be interesting.

Matt: A writer's room instead of. Instead of an executive producer. I mean, are we not. Have we not just solved the issues? I mean, for the right.

Garry: For the right price.

Matt: BBC.

Garry: Yeah.

Matt: You know, get in contact. We know you listen.

Garry: That's it. They do listen 100%. Yeah. Alrighty. I think we have waffled. This is a real waffle Y1 this week. It's been fantastic. We've waffled on about a few things. We've got another two subjects, but we're out of time. I think this lot are starting to flag a little bit. I can see. Cup of tea's needed. Pancakes.

Harry: It's Pancake Tuesday.

Garry: Pancake Tuesday here. Yeah. So what you've got to do is

Jordan: when we're all together at the Capitol, just put a recorder on the table and he. Just record that and just what you want to do.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And we'll. We'll do another one in the evening. Bring Adam on.

Jordan: Yeah.

Garry: Zoom or something.

Matt: Yeah.

Garry: A drunken one, probably at that point in the evening.

Jordan: Yeah.

Garry: You're in the us, Adam, so you'll have coffee, won't you? You'll have coffee.

Adam: I'll have a coffee, yeah. I have a coffee over here. Just. Just before we wrap up, Garry, who do you think Maria would have picked for showrunner? Obviously we'll get to ask on the next roundtable. But she would. I think she would have gone for Jack Thorne. Do you think or you think she would have gone with Pete?

Garry: I think she probably would have gone for Jack. I'm guessing.

Adam: I feel. Yeah, we'll find out. We'll ask her. But I. I'm gonna guess Pete, you know, Jack.

Harry: I don't know.

Adam: Yeah, you think so?

Harry: Okay, we'll see who knows her more, I guess.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to get it wrong if she's pretty scary. Like, she'll give you a backhander for, you know, I should have kept my mouth shut. Yeah, she's. She's harsh when she. When she's in the mood to be not trifled with. Yeah, she's. She'll give you a slap for sure. So anyway, Maria, I will put out a social post or a line to go with this episode when it goes out with Maria's take on it. But I think we settled on three to one, Jack to Pete, and then I was neutral because didn't want either. Okay, gotcha. Alrighty, who fans, let's wrap it there, shall we, for the February roundtable.

Adam: Alrighty.

Garry: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, dear listener, for joining us for another month on the round table with this crazy bunch as we talk about all the Doctor Who things. Well, just one thing in. In this particular episode, which was who's the next showrunner for Doctor Who? Let us know what you think over on the socials. You can find us over on X threads, Instagram, Blue sky, all the things, whatever your cup of tea is over there, just let us know what you think is the next showrunner or who is the next showrunner, and start a conversation over there. You can find links to all that stuff on the website, which is bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk where you can also listen to all these things for fun, free. And you can read all the articles and reviews from this lot, for free. Mainly Big Finish, believe it or not, those guys. Again, the Big Finish lot. Go and listen to it and in all seriousness, go and check out some of the Torchwood stories and some other bits over at Big Finish. It's all. It's all good, good stuff. You can also jump into our free Discord server. There's a link on the website. You can hop in there and chat Doctor Who with lots of fun other cool who fans. We've lots of conversations around upcoming things like the new showrunner or merch or classic stuff, music, whatever. Hop in there and check lot, chat lots of Doctor Who. Also, don't forget to remember to check out Adam's channel over on YouTube. It is, of course, the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: The Geeks Handbag. Check out my YouTube channel. I've got some great new videos all the way. Actually, I'm working on some stuff right now. Now, I always say that, but I am. I've actually been spending a lot of time getting some ready. I want to. I want to bank them up, you see, so I can get them all out and relax.

Garry: So, yeah, sure, sure.

Adam: Geek Sandbag.

Garry: And Geek Sandbag. Alrighty. Until next time, my name's Garry.

Matt: My name's Matt.

Harry: My name is Harry.

Adam: My name's Maria. I mean, Adam.

Jordan: I'm Jordan.

Garry: And until next time, take care of yourselves. And remember,

Adam: Timmy mallet for showrunner.

Matt: It.