Roundtable October 2025: Doctor Who Returns for Christmas 2026 and We Revisit The Aztecs

Garry: Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to The Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Maria: My name's Maria.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Garry: And welcome to the October Roundtable. Hey, fans, hope you're keeping well and safe. We hope you've had a cracking few weeks since the last round table. We hope you've done something Doctor.

Harry: Doctor.

Maria: Related.

Harry: Related.

Garry: Didn't fill the lungs up enough for that one. Yeah, hope you've done something who related? Dear listener, welcome back to another roundtable for October. Spooky season is upon us. Of course we were going to do the cliche. We were going to go down the usual route. What are the top five scariest Doctor. Who episodes to watch at Halloween? It's been done like a billion times, you know. Plus we have a couple of articles on the blog for that and yeah, basically Blink, Satan pit, hide, those kind of things. Someone did mention one the other day. We were talking about this the other day and someone's like, oh, why didn't you mention Santa? I can't remember what it is though. There's another story that people gravitate towards for the spooks link. No. Oh, midnights.

Maria: Oh, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

Garry: Can't miss that one out. Creepy one. That so, yeah, spooky season. It's a shame that our good friend and team member Jordan's not here because he's into. He's into all the ghostly goings on and spooks and all that stuff.

Harry: Ah, we could have had another ghost story. Yeah, that would have been good.

Garry: From old J. From Jords. Yeah. Actually a little plug for another podcast then. So Jordan.

Harry: Oh, yes, of course.

Garry: Got in contact with. Was it Peter Laws? Is it the Peter Laws podcast? Dan Laws, Stephen Laws.

Maria: Peter. Peter Laws.

Harry: I think you're right, of course.

Garry: Yeah. So the. The podcast, the Peter Laws podcast. Jordan got in contact with him a little while ago and I believe it's his latest episode or the one before that. Just retells Jordan's experience of when he was working in a certain shop a few years back and had some not nice experiences that shook him a little bit. Shook him to the core. And he's been a believer since then. So, yeah, go and check out Jordan's story on the Peter Laws podcast. It's very good. But yeah, it's a shame he's not here.

Maria: It's called into the Fog. Called into the Fog.

Garry: Into the Fog by Peter Laws. Yeah, I'll stick a link in the show notes. Go and check it out. It's a Good. Listen, anyway, I'm not going to do the whole spooky season stuff, but we are going to talk about a couple of things on this month's roundtable. The agenda is thus thusly. First of all, some big news dropped today for Doctor Who. Everybody can exhale now. Everybody can relax. You know, pull your panties out your bum a little bit. Yeah. Oh, God. Oh, no. Doctor Who. What's going on? Just relax. Pull your. Pull your panties out. Just relax. Yeah, it's all good. We knew this was coming. So some big news drop for that. We'll get to that. And then we did the. The thing that we did last time where we just threw it out to the guys on the proverbial virtual roundtable and said, what story do you want to talk about? And Maria came up with a belter from the classic years, The Aztecs. We'll talk about that one. When did we review that? Adam and myself, on the old. On the actual pod.

Maria: I was going to ask you that, Garry, when did you last review it? Because I don't remember it being very recent.

Garry: It was a while ago. It was a while ago. While I'm looking that up, you guys. Maria, how have you been?

Maria: I've been good. You know, we're obviously into the autumn now, so I. What have I done that's Doctor Who related? I did go to a screening at Riverside Studios of the Ark, which is a William Hartnell story. It features Dodo and Stephen. So obviously it's really exciting that we're going to be reviewing The Aztecs because I really feel that, you know, William Hartnell sometimes does get a little bit forgotten. You know, when we're sort of talking about doctors in terms of, you know, everyone gets excited about the latest Doctors or they're kind of talking about the new series. And it's nice to kind of throw a little bit of love his way. But, yeah, that screening was really good. It was better than I kind of expected. I think the arc is a story that sometimes doesn't get. It's not one of the classics, I would say, of Doctor Who, but I remember the first time that I saw it, I was really surprised at how it kind of twists and turns a little bit within the story. And I think it's actually really for the time. I think it's ambitious. And, you know, they do try a lot of different things with it in terms of special effects, the direction is really good. You know, they use some new techniques. So it's actually a really good story to have for a screening. And at the screening, we had two writers, so we had James Gossip and Gavin Rymel there. And what they do is they give a watcher's guide to each episode before you watch it and then there's a little discussion after the episode's aired and they kind of, I think they're both kind of really geeky, so they're looking at all the technical stuff around it and stories behind the scenes, so it makes it a really interesting afternoon. So they're a lot of fun, so a lot of fun. It's quite a nice relaxed event and they, they do have them every few months. So it's quite nice to go through screening and, and, you know, just show a little bit of love towards story that maybe you wouldn't have thought about.

Garry: Yeah. Oh, nice. And your, your review of that is up on the blog, isn't it?

Maria: So my review, yeah, it went up this. I think it was this week. So have a read of that. There's some fun facts in there, some interesting things to say about the episode and, and it's the first appearance of Dodo as well. And you know, she's an interesting character. Her accent kind of goes from posh to cockney to northern, depending on, depending on where she is in the story. So. But no, seriously, I think it's a good story story and I, I really enjoyed that screening. I don't think I've done anything else. Have I watched any Doctor Who? I can't remember if I have. I think I probably have. I think I, I think I watched the Happiness Patrol a while back. I don't know why, but I really kind of go back to that story quite a lot and I, I don't know if it's because, you know, I've seen it a few times recently and I, I just really rate it and you know, it's good to watch Sylvester McCoy stories then. Most of them are pretty good. So, yeah, so I think I watched, I watched that a while ago. That's about it for me. In terms of Doctor Who related with you. Oh, actually, no saying that I haven't done Doctor Who stuff, but I have done. Have been watching some sci fi on Sky Mix every evening week, weekday evening, they have repeats of Star Trek the Next Generation and also Deep Space Nine. So I'm going, I'm coming home in the evening and I'm kind of distracted by kind of watching Star Trek for two hours. I haven't, I haven't watched the. I haven't watched all of it, to be fair. I don't Think I got to the end of Deep Space Nine. So I'm really enjoying, actually I'm enjoying that. It's giving me that sci fi fix that I really need. So, yeah, so that's what I've been doing.

Garry: Oh, sounds good. I remember a friend of mine got to kept banging on at me for years to watch Star Trek the Next Generation because I'm not really a Trekkie, to be honest with you. I've kind of dip in and out.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: But I remember watching through the first season of the Next Generation and thinking, okay, I've watched about 72 episodes. There must be an end to this season somewhere. Look online. It's like, oh, you've got another 200 and something episodes to go. It was back in, you know, back in the day in the sort of the 90s, 2000s when US shows had like at least 20 odd episodes a season.

Maria: Yeah, yeah. I mean there's a lot, there's a lot to get through. I mean, I think the first couple of seasons are really kind of setting up your characters and then it's, and then it kind of goes into their personal lives and you have, you have episodes that are kind of character centric, so they concentrate on certain characters. I've noticed that with Deep Space Nine, I think they kind of, they have those arc stories where the story kind of has an overarching arc, but then they've got all these character driven ones and if you like that character, then that episode's quite enjoyable. But if you're, if you're not, if you don't really like that character very much, you know, it can be a little bit of a turn off because, yeah, they are a bit variable. I mean, I do, I do enjoy Deep Space Nine, I must admit. And you know, there are some good characters in it. For anyone that loves Star Trek, I think you have to watch those series. Really. You know, on top of the original 1960s series, I haven't really watched a lot of the newer stuff, to be fair. I think it's just because it's not on, it's not on a channel that I can access easily because I don't have a lot of the streaming services. So. But yeah, I'm a happy, but I'm a happy bunny every evening. Next Generation in Deep Space Nine, you know, it's, it's filling that, that sci fi fix that I need, you know, because we've, we, you know, without Doctor Who on the tv, it's hard going.

Garry: True, true. Well, Maria's up to her eyeballs in sci fi, as usual. Very nice, Harry. How have you been, old buddy?

Harry: Yeah, Garry, I'm, I'm pretty good. You know, I've, I've had, not to toot my own horn or anything, but I've had a pretty good month in terms of Doctor Who related stuff. So it, I've also been watching a bit of Sylvester McCoy. I, I, I'm on season 26 now. I'm watching, watching them slowly. But I, I, I, I rewatched The Greatest Show in the Galaxy for the first time in years. Probably the second time ever, to be fair. I think the first time I watched it I was probably a teenager. And that's a brilliant story. That's a really good, really underappreciated people don't talk about that one enough. It was absolutely fantastic. I loved that, I loved that story. I went to the Adventures in Time and Space in Peterborough again. I did that weekend. Just gone. It's about to close. So I think by the time people are listening to this, it's probably not much use saying go along and visit because it's probably, it's probably closed by now.

Garry: But you missed the window.

Harry: Yeah, unfortunately. But hopefully, I mean, you know, I was talking to a volunteer who worked at the museum and they didn't say that it would never come. They didn't say it would come back, but they didn't say that it would never come back as well. So take that with a pinch of salt. It might see the light of day again. But yeah, it was lovely to visit that again. They added the secondary console since the last time I was there, it was a replica built by some of the, I think there was some of the art students or product design students at the local university. But it was really cool. It was really cool, like seeing a recreation of it. So, yeah, that was wicked. And of course we had Terror of the Zygons at the bfi, which was, for me, very last minute. I wasn't expecting to, to go, but at the 11th hour you had a ticket your good self, Garry. So I went along to that. I don't normally go to the BFI screening, so it was lovely to attend one, especially for season 13, which a season that, you know, I absolutely love. I think we all absolutely love it. And yeah, that was a great day. We have Blake 7 coming up at the BFI as well, because we couldn't get enough of it. So, yeah, that'll be awesome. I think that's in a week and a half, something like that. So, yeah, so it's been a. Yeah. Not to toot my own horn. Not to toot my own horn, but a really good Doctor Who related month for me, I think.

Garry: Sweet. Yeah. Maria's just reminded us that the exhibition is open until this Sunday, the 2nd of November, and if you happen to.

Harry: Be listening, just before that final weekend, Sylvester McCoy is going to be there, I think, on the Sunday that it closes. So if there's still a few tickets left for that event, then go ahead and visit the museum if you can. But yeah, it's looking a bit slim, unfortunately. You can always read my article on it. I wrote an article on it and you can sort of vicariously experience it through that. There's loads of, like, YouTube videos as well on it, so it's worth taking a look at. They put a lot work into it.

Maria: When you went, Harry, did they have a lot of original costumes or were there replicas there as well?

Harry: It was a mix. It was about half and half, so a lot of it was recreation. Especially, like they had a room that was dedicated to Daleks and a room that was dedicated to Cybermen. Most of those were recreated costumes, which I didn't mind because I thought it was really cool to physically see kind of a history of the Daleks and a history of the Cybermen. But also there are loads of original stuff that they sourced as well, particularly what I was most enamored with. Well, two things, actually. One, it was Marco Polo's tunic, which was also Richard the Lionheart's tunic in the Crusade. That was amazing to see. And there was also one of the Space Station Nerva, like, like space uniforms that they had from the Ark in space. That one of those original ones as well, which was really cool. And yeah, there was. So, yeah, a mix. Yeah, lots of really cool, like, original stuff. Like. Yeah, it's always cool to see it. I love going to Doctor Who exhibitions. It was cracking.

Garry: That sounds awesome. Yeah, really good one. And that. Was that your second time, did you say?

Harry: Yes, it was so good I had to visit again. And also it's not. It's a short train ride for me, so it's easier. Easier said than done, but yeah, we'll have to keep an eye out for any. I'm sure it won't be the last. There'll be other Doctor Who exhibitions, definitely. So just keep your eyes peeled, basically.

Maria: Can I mention some sad news that I heard this week that was that that was released Nabil Shaban, who played Sil in the. In the 1980s, Vengeance on Baros and Mind War and he also did a. He also did an. Another production, um, that was done by Keith, um, Barnfather, who does the Real Time videos. I think it's called. I think it's called the Devil Seeds of Alador. It was very sad to hear that he passed away this week. I suppose it kind of resonates with me because the 1980s was kind of my era when I was watching the show and I was a real fan. So I was really sad to hear about that because I think still was such a. It was such a well, well realized character. So. Yeah, I just thought I'd mention that. That made me quite sad hearing about that this week.

Garry: Yeah, no, I saw that earlier. Yeah, it's sad. I think he was 70, 72 when he passed away. But yeah, I mean, an entertaining character in an episode, sometimes unintentionally entertaining. But there's no, there's no denying at all that those scenes that he's in, it, it's like you can't. You can't look away.

Maria: You can't. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: It's just so good. Yeah. Yes. So. Oh, dear. So, yeah, leaves us. Because I remember over the years, whenever we've done news where Doctor Who actors have left us over the years, it's always a really release because it hits you, because the actor themselves have passed away, of course, which is sad news. But then it just sort of adds to the. To the ongoing list of, you know, people that are leaving us who were involved in Classic who. And. Yeah, so it's like a double whammy when we lose people from. From classic who.

Maria: So, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of, you know, obviously I'm aware when older, older actors or people behind the scenes kind of pass away from the 1970s and 1960s. And I suppose you kind of. You kind of imagine, because obviously they. They work so long ago on the series that, you know, it. I suppose it doesn't touch you as much, but because it's the 1980s and he wasn't, he wasn't really that old. I. It just made me sad to hear about that because, you know, he was. I think he was, you know, he played a unique character and I think he was a actor as well that, you know, I think he fought for disability rights as well and things like that. So, you know, it was, it was quite sad to sort of hear about his passing, really.

Garry: Yeah, I agree. It was sad. So, yeah, thanks for mentioning that, Maria. That's. Yeah. Nabil Shaban leaves us at age 72. Okay, onto some news Then we've only got one piece to talk about and it's. It was dropped earlier today by the BBC on their official social channels. And it is the following news. The BBC can confirm that Doctor Who will be back on our screens next year for Christmas 2026. The Crimbo special, written by the man himself, Maria's favorite showrunner, Russell T. Davies. He's going to write the Crimbo Special. And this is on the, on the back end of that main story. There were two other sort of mini stories. The first one was that Disney plus will not be partnering with BBC Studios or Bad Wolf Studios any further. Once the spin off the War between the Land and Sea have gone out, that will be it. No more sort of production partnering. There will still be, I assume there will be like, like leftover streaming rights and stuff where international people will still be able to stream Doctor Who on Disney plus for a while. I'm guessing, I'm not sure. But in terms of making new Doctor Who, that will no longer be a thing with Disney plus. And it looks like they've not mentioned any other streaming partners. So I'm gonna, you know, I know it's always wrong to assume, but I'm going to assume that moving forward, BBC Studios and Bad Wolf are just going to sort of co create Doctor Who with the. With a smaller budget allocated by the Beeb. So that's the first sort of sub story. And then the second one is. Is the. The spin off that I just mentioned. The War between the Land and the Sea. Call it what you want. The War betwixt Land and the Sea. Turbolasa, Surf and turf, whatever you want to call it was supposed to air next year that seemingly has been brought forward to this year. So it was kind of. I don't think the BBC ever actually came out and said, yes, this is going to drop in 2026. I think it was just people found it on like TV listings websites and other bits and bobs as the date that it was or the year that it was going to go out, which was meant to be next year. But in this news story and in some other bits it does say that this is going to head to BBC iPlayer and BBC One later this year. So we are taking an educated guess that it's probably going to drop December and we'll go through and finish up in February ish around that time. And then this is not brand news, brand new news. But they did mention it in the story as well that we still have that animation coming for CBeebies which is being made at the moment, that'll probably be out next year as well. And then, yeah, next year we'll finish with this new Christmas special, which is being produced by Bad Wolf and BBC Studios for the BBC. Who knows where the money's coming from for that test Daily Claudia Winkelman's salaries. Who knows? Who knows? So, guys, over to you to get your thoughts on this one. Are you shocked? Surprise. Or are you like, yep, we could see this coming a mile off. And are you looking forward to Doctor Who being back on our screens for Christmas Day yet again?

Harry: All I can say is thank God. Thank God we have some certainty at last. Because I think the worst thing was that we had no idea what was happening. And I think we've all been in this kind of. Well, I can speak for myself here. I feel like I've been caught up in, like, the echo chamber of. Because we don't know what's going on. Jumping straight to thinking, doctor who's canceled. It's not going to come back for another five years. The show is dead. It's as dead as it's ever been, blah, blah, blah. But it's. Yeah, obviously I think it was always gonna come back, like, in a year or a year and a half. I think they just needed to, like, get through that red tape, small print and kind of sort out what was going off on with Disney and which, you know, let's be honest, it was always obvious that it was heading towards its end, that partnership, because if it wasn't, then we would have had a season three in the pipeline by now with Shootigatwa. So, yeah, all I can say is thank goodness we know what's happening. And, you know, we're still gonna speculate because they've kept their cards very close to their chest. We don't know if, like, this is going to be Billy Piper centric. I mean, most likely it will be maybe Billy Piper and David Tennant, as. As the rumors have it. But, yeah, no, this is. I think this is good news. I think it's, you know, it's good to know that we have a date in mind. And, yeah, who knows whether it will go back to being a janky BBC show or. Yeah, probably the most likely outcome, they'll find another streaming partner because Doctor Who's just too expensive to make nowadays on. On the BBC budget alone, at least that's. That's how I understand it. So, yeah, no, this is good. And as for the war betwixt, which I think I prefer as a Title? Oh, actually, no, I prefer surf and turf. As for surf and turf, I'm. I'm gonna choose to look forward to it. I think I've been quite pessimistic around the war between the Land and the sea because, you know, a Sea Devil unit spin off isn't initially what I would want. Like, it wouldn't be my choice as a spin off, but I'm gonna choose to look forward to it. It might be really good and it would be really cool, actually, if it was on during the festive season as a kind of replacement for a Doctor Who Christmas special this year. Matt was saying in our chat earlier on that, I think it was Matt, that it could be a, like Children of Earth thing, where they do like one a night over the festive season. That would be really cool. But yeah, whenever we get it, however we get it, I'm, I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to choose to look forward to it because, you know, what else am I going to do?

Garry: Yeah, I think I could be a sleeper hit, that one. I think that could be.

Harry: It might end up being like a Rogue One, Star wars kind of situation where, like the spin off media, the supplement is the best thing to come out of the, The Disney era of Doctor Who. Who knows?

Garry: Who knows? Maria, what are your thoughts on. I assume you can't wait for the Crimbo special next year. I can see your eyes lighting up. She can't wait.

Maria: Look, sorry, wait while I stop laughing, won't you? I don't know. I. I did wonder why it's come out now in terms of what they're doing. I suppose it could, it could be something in terms of, you know, they do want to end the speculation and, and I'm wondering if it's something because we've got Lindsay Salt, she's a relatively new person, I understand, at the BBC. I think she's only been there probably about six months. You know, it was, it was positive that, you know, that it was made clear that Doctor Who wasn't going anywhere, you know, so I think, I think I was initially kind of worried that it would maybe be when they said that Doctor Who isn't going anywhere, that we were looking at the CBEEBI series that they proposing to make. And I thought, well, is that what they mean? You know, I mean, I, you know, I'm glad the speculation has been finished. The only thing I will say is, you know, this kind of break in between series is nothing really. I mean, if we were going to do a Wilderness years. You know, it would have been obviously over a few years and that might still, it might still be a long time before we get a new series. I mean, it's good that we've got a Christmas special coming out. I do have my reservations for Russell T. Davis is writing it because, I mean, you know, let's be fair. I mean, the way the series was left with the Billy Piper reveal, you know, I think has left a lot of fans kind of questioning, you know, what, what he was, what, what he had, what he was planning. So I suppose this is a good opportunity for him to kind of wrap up everything. I mean, it is quite interesting, the wording that Lindsay Fort uses because she says, we're delighted that Russell Q. Davis has agreed to write us another spectacular Christmas special. So whether this is just a farewell episode for him to kind of tie everything up, kind of finish. Finish all the stories or kind of tie up everything in terms of all the queries around the series, maybe, you know, obviously what, what who Billy Piper is. I'm assuming that David Tennant will be back at some point. I'm assuming maybe the 14th doctor will make an appearance at some point. You know, those two characters seem to kind of probably work together, but I'm assuming this is just a tie up for him because it doesn't say that he's going to be involved in the new series or who's going to be doing it. So I'm wondering, is this a final episode for Bad Walk as well? I'm a bit.

Garry: We don't.

Maria: I'm a bit disappointed really, that, you know, we don't, we don't know about a new showrunner because I think, I think the series really needs it. But I'm hoping that that's going to come with the new series because they are talking about a new series as well. I'm not surprised that Disney plus didn't renew. I'm not, I'm not surprised that they didn't renew. I think we knew it was all on the cards, really, that they weren't going to come back. I'd be interested to kind of know what the final viewing figures would have been for them. I mean, I think the positive would have been that they actually. Doctor Who was. It went out to a larger audience. So if there's a positive, you know, maybe that positive take from it is that it did go out to a wide audience. It's a shame about the viewing figures. I know everyone says viewing figures don't matter, but I personally think they do. But I'm not surprised that they, they didn't want to do any more. Possibly the series, you know, didn't go in the direction that they were hoping for. I think, I think there was a really good opportunity with Disney to kind of use that money wisely. And I don't think, to be honest, it was used that wisely over the two series that we had. So in terms of where the money should have gone. So I'm not surprised, I'm not surprised they didn't want to kind of come back and it's probably been an open secret that they weren't going to come back. Not surprised about that. Yeah. We'll just have to wait and see. I mean, they've got, they've got a year, obviously, with, you know, with a Christmas special to kind of, you know, sort out all the underlying storylines that we've got and hopefully tie everything up with a fresh start for a new series. That's what I'm hoping for. I'm a bit disappointed with RTT coming back, but hopefully it's just a one off and then he's gone.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. I think it's safe to say that unless we get some kind of announcement that Russell, Russell has left. I don't think, as it's really weird. There was a couple of, there was a couple of other Doctor Who podcasts who a few weeks ago said that they've got exclusive news that Russell's been sacked and, and all this rubbish. He clearly hasn't been sacked. This is not a, you know, the BBC haven't sacked anybody. This feels to me like just a natural progression between the shows as it is now coming to a kind of natural end as Disney are departing and the spin off's gonna be done and wrapped up. And then as you said, Maria, the Christmas special then gives you opportunity for Russell to bring his era of the show full circle sort of again, you know, for the second time around. And. But it wouldn't surprise me if he stays on in some capacity and then we get a new showrunner and so on. So I think that's gonna be, I.

Maria: Mean, if he was, be like an executive producer on it, but didn't actually have any input into the stories or maybe the direction, then I would say that's okay. But I think if he's there in some capacity where he's influencing the direction that the series goes in going forward, I don't think that's necessarily a positive for the show because I really think it needs fresh ideas, it needs somebody to come in Somebody to look at it with a fresh eye, really. Somebody that's not, but, you know, that's not that familiar with it. Maybe somebody that isn't even a fan of the show but is good at drama because it needs, it needs drama. It needs something or it needs somebody that's got an interest in sci fi as well. Because I think the sci fi element wasn't. Wasn't there enough for me. I think it was. I don't know. It's very difficult to say, but, you.

Garry: Know, it's a difficult one.

Maria: It is a difficult one. You know, I mean, the reason why I go back to Classic two is because, you know, there's still a lot of. There's still a lot. There's a lot of sci fi elements in Classic two. It doesn't really have, it doesn't have its soap opera moments, if that kind of makes sense. You know, there's, there's not. It's always about the story and it's normally, it's normally around some kind of sci fi idea. And I think the series. I don't know if the BBC, does the BBC kind of understand what it needs. I don't know. I'm, I'm hoping that this isn't just a. I'm, I'm hoping that the, that they don't. That they learn from the last few series, that they learn the mistakes that have been made in terms of, you know, how do they attract new viewers to the show. You know, they're only going to do that if, if it's got a really strong concept. It needs to go back to the, the man in a box that goes traveling. I think, you know, I think it needs, it needs a really strong. It needs somebody to really drive it. And it's not RTD that needs to drive it anymore. He can't drive it anymore. I think it has to be somebody else. I don't know. It's very difficult and without knowing. I mean, it would be interesting to see how many episodes the new series that they're going to offer. Are they going to keep the eight or they're going to make it a longer series? I don't know. It's really difficult to say, but yeah, it's positive. I'm glad that we've got a Christmas special. I mean, I'm, I, I hope that there's a fresh idea in there, but, you know, it is really just to probably wrap up, wrap up everything from the era, hopefully.

Garry: Yeah, no, I'd say so. I'd be surprised anyway, if, if they announced at some point in the near future, the newer series after the Christmas special, that Russell would still be here, a showrunner and all that stuff. I'd be surprised.

Maria: Anyway, I'm just thinking when a new series might drop. I probably think 27, maybe. 20. 27, 20, 28, maybe.

Garry: Yeah, it. Probably the end of sort of summer, autumn of 27 at the earliest, I would say.

Maria: Yeah, I think so. It's still going to be quite a long gap between anything really. Anything substantial.

Garry: Yeah. So get your classic DVDs out, fire up iPlayer, ITV.

Harry: There's no excuse to watch all of classic Doctor Who now, is there?

Garry: Exactly, yeah.

Harry: Better get on it.

Garry: Yeah. Get your. Get your big finish out, give all that a listen. So. Yeah, but as Maria said, Maria said, it is positive news overall because as well as a lot of people having their fingers crossed and all that stuff for Russell leaving and all that, the. The viewpoint from the BBC, and it's good to have it from the horse's mouth, and I'm quoting Lindsay Salt here, where she says the BBC remains fully committed to Doctor Who, which continues to be one of our most loved dramas. We can assure fans the Doctor is not going anywhere and we will be announcing plans for the next series in due course, which will ensure the TARDIS remains at the heart of the BBC. So I think that's like a. A message to say, chill, everyone, there's going to be a bit of a break. But fear not, the. The BBC still considers Doctor Who as a. As one of its. One of its best. So we'll see. We'll see.

Maria: Well, they've. They've realized that fans do spend a lot of money on Doctor Who. Merchant on Doctor Who DVDs and probably Blu Rays as well. So, you know, if it's good that it's not going anywhere because they know that it will make money for them in the long term.

Garry: Yep, agreed.

Harry: Agreed.

Garry: Yep. It's a shame that Matt and Jordan not here because I'm sure they would have some big opinions on this, but we're. I hope they get better soon. They're poorly, bless them. A bit of man flu in the. The big blue box towers. They're in isolated wings recuperating. So. Yeah, let's take a guess. What would Matt think? He'd probably be like, well, I bloody love the fact that Dr.'ho is coming back at some point. I know, my love. I love. I bloody love another Crimbo special. I would. With Russell. Bloody brilliant.

Maria: Sure.

Harry: It's like he's in the room.

Maria: His comment was damn in the chat, so take from that what you will. I'm not going to speak for him.

Garry: I don't know. Yeah. And Jordan. Jordan's probably in the same boat as you, Maria. He's probably. He's probably enjoyed the last couple of seasons more than. Than we have, I think, and is probably looking forward to a Crimbo special. But at the same time, he's probably eager for some sort of fresh, new Doctor Who as well, I would say, as we all are. So. Yeah, Right. That's the bombshell that's dropped directly from the Beeb today in the world of Doctor Who. So weird having, like, official Doctor Who news. I remember when. When we started the podcast up many moons ago, Adam and I, we used to have loads of official news to talk about every single week. It was mad. Like, every week there was a. An interview with Stephen Moffat or Russell or Chibbers or an interview with an actor or a new thing or something. It was an event. It was just crazy. But now it's like you have to wait for the Tumbleweed to go past the road for a few months and then you get one thing like this.

Maria: And you live the glory years. You and Adam, you had the glory years where you had news every week and something was coming out.

Garry: Yeah, it's mad.

Maria: And the merch was good as well.

Garry: It was, yeah. We had back listeners, if you're not aware, years ago, when it was just before the round tables, before. Before this lock gate crashed, the podcast, it was just myself and Adam talking about stuff and we actually had to have a proper dedicated merch corner segment because there was, like, stuff, like loads of Doctor Who collectibles and merch pretty much every week. It was. Yeah. Ah, the good old days.

Maria: Dalek Tat is wondering where it's gone.

Harry: Dalek Tat.

Maria: He needs to come back.

Garry: Dalek Tat.

Harry: Bring him back in time for Christmas 2026, Garry.

Garry: Yeah, back in time for the return.

Harry: Of Doctor Who again.

Garry: Doctor Who.

Harry: Doctor Who.

Garry: Should we talk about The Aztecs?

Maria: Let's.

Harry: Let's do it.

Garry: Barbara.

Maria: Barbara, what on earth are you doing there? They think I'm a reincarnation of that priest in the tomb. I found this and put it on, and when the High Priest caught me, I was still wearing it. So he thought you were a God? Yes.

Garry: If The Aztecs decide you're not what you're supposed to be, then we shall. This is not yet.

Maria: This is a false goddess. I shall destroy her. Famine, drought and disaster will come. Where Will it end Yetaxa in total destruction?

Garry: But you can't rewrite history.

Maria: Not one line. Your monsters. Sweet favored men. All of you monsters.

Garry: You have betrayed us.

Maria: You have declared your love for me. I shall destroy you. And I acknowledge and accept your gentle proposal.

Garry: The story that Maria wanted to. Before we get on with. With that, though, I did track down the original scores for that. We. We. Adam and I reviewed it back in 2016 for episode 93, and I gave it a 9 out of 10.

Harry: And.

Garry: Adam gave it an 8.5 out of 10. So we had. I remember I watched this. I watched two episodes last night and then the remaining two today. And yeah, I'll tell you if my thoughts have changed on that, if it's a. Still a nine or whatever. But Maria, why did you want to. Why did you want to look at The Aztecs?

Maria: Well, I'll be honest with you, Garry. There's so many store. There's so many stories in Galactic who. That I kind of thought when you guys said to me, because I'd missed the. The last round table, unfortunately, and you said to me, pick a story. So I thought, well, how can I possibly do that? Because there's so many good stories out there. So I. I put it into the TARDIS randomizer and it came up with the Aztec. So, you know, it obviously. It obviously knows what?

Garry: You put it in the what?

Maria: TARDIS randomizer.

Harry: You got your own tardis.

Garry: You got your own TARDIS tardis.

Maria: And I put it in the randomizer and it came up with the ad.

Harry: Hold the phone. You've not mentioned this before.

Maria: What. What do you think? What do you think all of this is around me?

Garry: This is Maria in the Morning. In it.

Maria: Right.

Garry: What should we have for breakfast? Randomizer. Hit me. What you got?

Maria: I've got a food machine that.

Garry: Eggs and broccoli.

Maria: Yeah, I've got the food machine next door and it kind of produces these little cubes of egg and bacon in the morning.

Harry: Dearie me.

Maria: But yeah, it was done purely at random. Purely at random. Not. Not my choice, because I think I would have probably gone for Peter Davison. So I thought, well, no, we won't do that. We won't do that.

Garry: Let's. Okay, Maria, what's. What's. What Doctor's era do you want to review the most? Let's. Let's have three guesses. We'll get it in one, probably.

Maria: You know what? You. You guys have didn't tell me which stories you hadn't seen because I said. I said tell Me, the stories that you haven't seen, and then I'll. I'll pick something from there. Nobody came back. You guys are like, you're all off doing your. Living your lives and doing whatever you're doing, and nobody kind of came back to me.

Harry: So I'm just in Peterborough, so.

Maria: Yeah, you walk in Peterborough. Okay, you're excused.

Harry: I'm always in Peterborough. Yeah.

Garry: Okay, so randomizer aside, what made you want to look at the Aztec?

Maria: Well, okay, the fact that I didn't. I didn't run the randomizer again was. I thought. I thought The Aztecs is actually a really good. The Aztec is actually. It's a historical. It's a historical. Which I think gets overlooked sometimes in Doctor Who. It's an example of a good historical because it's still got that element of educational. I mean, I think we're about six stories in with this. So it actually really kind of. The storytelling is quite ambitious in that it's obviously trying to do its educational remit, which I think it does, because I think I did. I did learn something from it, you know, and I'm a. You know, I'm a mature adult, but, you know, I love kind of learning something new from it. And I think, you know, there's an element of that in Doctor Who that, you know, that is important, you know, and I think it's just. It's full four episodes as well, so it means it's not one of those stories that kind of padded out a lot. So I thought it was a good, good example of a historical. You've got your original progress crew. Yeah, let's just get stuck into it. Why not? It's the good story.

Garry: Okay. And Harry, is this. Is this a new one for you or have you dived into 15th century civilizations in Doctor Who before?

Harry: Yeah, I've watched The Aztecs a few times. Several years ago on W, the channel Watch, when it went for a phase where it was just called W because they were trying to be posh. They did an omnibus of The Aztecs and I watched it and I thought, this is rubbish. There's no monsters in it and it's terrible. But I watched it again, I think it was like 2022, and re. Watched it for the. For the podcast just after I went to Peterborough for the millionth time. And this story is an absolute classic. I love it. I had such a turnaround with it when I watched it again a few years back because, yeah, I remember thinking it was boring, but. But then I watched it again and I thought this format for Doctor Who, like the original format of like just going back in time and like getting involved in a conflict, no bug eyed monsters, just kind of, you know, a pure historical, it really, really works. And it, to be honest, and having seen all of the first Doctor's era and seen all these pure historical stories before they ended, I think it was at the Highlanders with Patrick Troughton. I'm really surprised that it didn't stick because most of those stories that are just purely historicals where the TARDIS team just get embroiled in some shenanigans and like in this story, literally the stakes are, I mean they could all die, but also they, they might not get back in the tardis, they might not get home. It's, it's kind of like, it's very simple, it's very simple so story, but it's, it's excellent and, and it's, it's thoroughly entertaining. And yeah, it, it didn't need a monster. It didn't need a monster at all. I, I, I, I just, yeah, I feel like this format really, really works. And The Aztecs encapsulates it because they capture the setting really well in so much as they can with, you know, shoestring budget and the characterizations are really good. And the Toxel, even though he's just a bloke, is a really captivating villain and you know, hell bent on proving Barbara as not an Aztec goddess and yeah, like it, yeah. I'm just amazed by how fantastic it is, you know, for the fact that it's just a pure historical and the format just really, really works. And I think if you're going to reinvent the wheel, because we're always talking about Doctor Who doing something different and wanting to, you know, know to see new stuff in the show and not retread old ground. I think you should go back to basics. I think we should bring back the pure historical because I think in The Aztecs it really bloody works.

Garry: You make a good point about the story not needing a monster like your typical Doctor Who monster to, for them to, to either escape from or stuff like that. It's, it's, it's, it's replaced though with this very nice multi threaded sort of morale, morality sort of story in a way, because the thing, the thing that appeals to me the most, I'm only referencing this on, in your comment about the, the monster is that the monster is the, are the human beings, you know, in some respects. Oh yeah, that's the, yeah, there's this constant kind of Morale. Because Barbara assumes this kind of position as goddess, quite literally, where she feels she has the power to save all of these people. Because this concept of human sacrifice was so sort of ingrained into their kind of culture and way of life, it seemed very alien to Barbara. She was like, well, I can't let this happen. I can't let. Or all these people die. And the Doctor, like, tries to drum into her, like, you know, you can't interfere. You can't stop all that stuff because you interfere with history. And it goes, you know, it all goes to pop sort of thing, and you're gonna. You can't change it and that sort of thing. And then she's like, oh, I don't know, she's torn. She's like, yeah, she's listening to the Doctor and there's a funny scene where he actually really rips into her quite heavily and then she starts to have a little cry, you know, and, and in a reconcile. But up to that point, he was pretty miffed. And. And then that sort of rolls downhill. So then she then takes on that kind of thing where, okay, what's the. What's the catalyst for this? And it basically, it's embodied by two main characters, right? You've got Latoxel and. What's the other guy's name? The sort of. The nicer one. Yes. Yeah. So he's like. He kind of embodied his embodies, this kind of nice human spirit, you know, all that sort of stuff. And the Toxel is very much the. Yeah, you know, we'll just kill everyone if it comes to it. And human sacrifice is the only way to, you know, appease the gods and all this stuff. And so she's tormenting that. So, yes, the absence of a monster on the surface, on paper might be like, oh, that might equal a. A lame story for Doctor Who, but in reality, it's replaced by these very, very well written, layered, sort of threaded concepts throughout the story. And then the Doctor obviously having his little love. Love story and on the sidelines and, And Harry going off to be the warrior. And it's. So, yeah, it's. You make a good point, but it's.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think there is something about the historic story force, because you, you, you often think, okay, if I went back in time, how. How would I live in that time? You know, how would I exist? So, like you said, you've got. You've got Ian that gets kind of drafted into the, into the army. You've got Susan that goes off to be in the seminary. They kind of put her in the seminary. Seminary. Seminary. You know, and Barbara's obviously a. Assumed this goddess kind of role, so. And the Doctor is kind of considered too old, and he has to go into the. Was it the Garden of Peace, where. Where he meets. What's the name of the. The lady that he meets that he makes the coco for? Oh, God. Thank you. So, yeah, it is really interesting because, you know, obviously, you know, you're. You're travelers from another time, so how do you fit into that world? And obviously, Barbara's got this kind of clash of her. Her worldview with the worldview of The Aztecs. You see nothing wrong with people. And one of the most interesting bits was when you've got those characters that are going to be sacrificed. Christ, and they're thinking that it's actually an honor for them to die. So I, you know, that that would go against everything that we would kind of imagine about, you know, you know, that people want to live and they want to thrive and survive, but, you know, you've got these people that are happy to die for, you know, so that the rains will come, you know, so it's a really interesting clash of worldviews, and I think that's where the historicals come. Can. Can probably really work. I mean, that's why I love listening to Marco Polo as well, because you get. You get these different viewpoints, different worldviews. So I think, as. I think Harry's right, there is, obviously there is a. I think there is a place for historicals within Dr. WHO, but they tend to. They tend to kind of link his places in history with monsters. So, you know, you've always got a monster that's hanging around in history now or doing something, so you've always got that kind of run around, you know, trying to defeat the monster. But there's probably a more interesting story to tell if it's a pure historical. I mean, I don't think they've done one, have they. They haven't done a few historical in the new series. I can't think of one.

Harry: I don't know.

Maria: They have. Maybe there's a place to do it, you know, and actually explain. I mean, I'm. I kind of love the idea that, you know, Barbara is trying to kind of. She's trying to fight a whole civilization, really. You know, and I suppose it's inevitable that, you know, she's going to fail. And, you know, the Doctor acknowledges that, and there's some lovely moments where, you know, you kind of get the sense that he's tried, because he says to her at one point, you know, you can't do this. It. You know, it's against. You know, you can't change the course of history, because that was what they had to do. And then I think he says, I know, I've tried, or something like that. He says something like that during the story. So I don't know whether the Doctor tried to change history. And it's really interesting, but at this point, obviously we're only into the first series and, you know, there's already these rules being laid down about what you can and can't do as a time traveler. You know, the fact that you're not allowed to kind of influence anything. You have to kind of walk very lightly wherever you go. You know, you have to kind of. You can't influence what, you know, world events and things like that. You know, you have to kind of walk very lightly in history. I mean, of course, they. In, you know, of course they then changed that in the series going on, because what came to mind for me was things like Genesis of the Daleks, where the Doctor is invited by the Time Lords to go back in time and try and change the history of their creation. So, you know, they've obviously had a turnaround. You know, there's obviously been a switch for some reason that, you know, the Time Lords and the Time Lords used the Third Doctor, I think, and Fourth Doctor to kind of do a bit of dirty work for them in terms of trying to change histories or go and influence things. There's obviously a turnaround in the history of Doctor Who in that, you know, he's actively kind of influencing things. And then you've got things like the fifth Doctor in, when he's back in the visitation and he. And. And the bakery is satellite. You know, obviously he's got pteroleptals there and things like that. But, you know, they've really changed that now about Doctor Who, haven't they? He seems to go in and interfering in different events, you know, and then you've got David Tennant saying, you know, he's the Time Lord Victorious, you know, because he's changed Adelaide's future. Yeah. So, you know, it's very interesting that they kind of. They kind of change that, you know, at that time in the first series, it's very much around kind of walking very lightly and not changing anything. But then it all gets changed later. So, yeah, I think there's some really interesting stories that can be told, you know, if they do some pure historicals. I would love to see a few historical comeback. Not something that doesn't have a monster. How would they deal with a story like that, you know, that didn't have a, didn't have a sci fi element in it? I don't know if they could do it these days.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, I mean, anything's possible, right? Any, any kind of stories is possible. It's just, it takes the right kind of, the right vision from a, from a writer to, to get that across. I think the challenge with modern television today is that you, you run into this, this smartphone problem where you have a majority of people, I'm not throwing shade here, but typically sort of the younger generation who tend to watch two screens at a time these days where they've got Netflix on or Disney or something, and they've got their phone on as well, and they're browsing TikTok and Insta or whatever it might be, and it almost feels like the TV show is on in the background almost. And it's kind of. Their attention is kind of flitting between the two. And so if you were to do a historical, it's the kind of story where if you miss a little bit of it, then you're buggered. If that makes sense. Like you can't, you know, it's, you have to. I mean, I guess it depends on where you set it, right? If you, if you try and do something too clever and too intricate, then you risk, you run the risk of, of younger, younger viewers, the very people that they're trying to, to attract to watch the show. Then you, you know, you, you run the risk of those guys not really keeping up with the details. And then, you know, it's so heartbreaking though.

Harry: Like we have to think about whether things are too intricate or too clever. Like that's, that's, that's really heartbreaking because it's. Because, yes, with the kind of the Disney era of Doctor Who maybe a little bit before that as well. To be fair, they were probably thinking, is this second screen enough? Can, can. Can someone also look at their tablet and look at the tv? Whereas like The Aztecs, I mean, what, what I really love about this story, and I don't know whether it's like exclusive to the fact that it's a historical, is that there isn't really, I mean, I feel very light hearted watching it, but there isn't really like a, a light hearted outcome. Because like you were saying, Maria, what Barbara's trying to do is futile. She's trying to like change a historic civilization. She's trying to impart her modern day modern at the time, modern day values on, on this situation where they're not going to see the same logic as Barbara does, because they think this is just what we do, we sacrifice people. It, you know, it's, it's the will of the gods and it's kind of, you know, it's utterly futile. But there's, there's a glimmer of hope because Ortlock sees a different way of life and then he, he goes off at the end and then he pursues it. And in amongst all of that, you got this little romance, this, this kind of cute little romance going on between the Doctor and Kamaka. And it's that bit at the end where he, he puts down that bit of jewelry and then he thinks before he goes in the Tardis, actually, I'm going to pick that up. And then he probably, I like to think that he probably, you know, takes it out sometimes and thinks of her and thinks, oh, that was a nice time. That was a nice little engagement that I had randomly, you know. I ask you, Harry, I don't know, it just comes.

Maria: Yeah, I was just gonna ask you, Harry, what did you think of the dialogue? Because I think, I think that the dialogue is quite intricate. What did you think of it? You're younger than me. What did you think watching it? Did you, did you find it difficult to follow? I mean, I mean, this is, this story is obviously in half, half hour episodes with a cliffhanger at the end. Did you find it hard to follow?

Harry: Yeah, I think when I watched it as an omnibus, especially watching it as an omnibus as a teenager, kind of like a 100 minute black and white movie, it's very dense and that's kind of, it's not that it's hard to follow necessarily, but it's not as, like, interesting. I feel like for me, I have to give it my full attention because, you know, it was made for people in the 1960s who had sensibilities and attention spans at the time that could, you know, I guess handle that. Whereas, you know, I kind of have Gen Z modern day sensibilities, unfortunately. Modern day attention span. I hate to admit it, you know, sometimes I do find myself looking at the old phone while I'm watching tv, which is. Yeah, I reflect on it. I think Star Trek.

Maria: I mean, I, I quite like it, but.

Harry: Yeah, no, I. Sorry, yeah, the dialogue. Yeah, I think I come from the theater, so, like, I don't mind kind of Something that's, like, really wordy and, like, you know, Shakespeare is very wordy. So, like, I'm kind of used to that in a way. But, yeah, I do have to give it my full attention in order to absorb it all, because it is quite dense.

Garry: Thou wouldst execute thy fellow man. I don't know how you would. Damn right say that in.

Harry: I won't start soliloquizing.

Maria: I like the soliloquizing, the theatricality of it. There's something quite theatrical about The Aztecs and there's some lovely little scenes and then it kind of is quite theatrical. The guy that plays Le Tocqueville, he's very kind of like. He comes across like he's on the stage. He's very like kind of Richard iii, kind of devious and cunning. It's a bit like a Shakespeare play, I think, the Aztec, because you've got your good guys and you've got your bad guys, and there's a few people that die in it as well.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: John Ringham, who plays Latoxor, is very theatrical in his delivery for a lot of his lines. He is a lot like. Who's the guy from the. And David.

Maria: Oh, David Collings.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah. Another guy who's, like, very kind of theatrical and sort of chews the wood a little bit on a. On a lot of scenes. But I found out with John Ringham in this, he was like the opposite almost, to. To Keith. To Keith Piat, who played Ortlock, who was very understated in the way that he. You know, he did it maybe because he was knocking on a bit at this point, but he was very much. I think he was just. Had had enough and was just. It was almost like, Barbara, was this kind of excuse that he needed just to be like. Yeah. You know, all the drama can be deflected to these other people for. For a bit, you know.

Maria: Oh, he wanted to go off into the wilderness. He'd had enough.

Garry: Yeah. He's like, I don't really care, but. No, I get your point, though. With. With Latoxel, he was. He was almost like he was being like a. Like a Disney villain, maybe.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: In some respects. Because even when he was like. If you were to close your eyes or if you were to listen to this, like, say, for example, if the. If this video. If the. The episodes were lost, but the. The. The audio had been survived and you were listening to this and you couldn't see it, you could still imagine his face, like, delivering those lines. So he. Even though he's like, really, you know, quite melodic with how he delivers the lines. His face was always like, you know.

Maria: Like he's chewing a wall.

Garry: You guys can't listen to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, you can't see our impression.

Harry: It's that, it's that, like. It's that, it's that, like, peacock. It's probably not a peacock. That's. But, you know. But like, it's probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's. Yeah, it works. It really works. He's. He's fantastic in it. Yeah.

Garry: What did you guys think to our TARDIS team in this, then? So we've spoken about Barbara a little bit and Susan, bless her, she kind of gets left a little bit on this one. She, she, she's in it for a bit, of course, but, you know, if you hadn't seen this one, like, if you guys had not said, let's do The Aztecs for the Round table. I think the last time I watched this was probably about five, six years ago and I, I honestly couldn't tell you, you know, what Susan, what Susan did in it, if I hadn't seen it yesterday and today. So. So Susan's obviously in it a little bit. Spoken about. Barbara. What did you think to. To Ian in this one, then? Because it seems like back in the day when they realized that by casting quite an older gentleman as the Doctor, he obviously wouldn't be able to get involved in, like, the physical, I'm not going to say stunt work as such, it wasn't really that extreme. But fight scenes, you know, weapons, you know, shoving people around. William Hartnell obviously wouldn't have been able to have. Have done that. So they gave that stuff to Ian to do. So he asked this, and I think you, you alluded to this stuff, Harry, in a really nice article that you put out about William Russell and in his performances and so on, that he had this lovely mix of, like, good guy, action hero, you know, being able to just get stuff done, you know, when the Doctor was off doing whatever the hell he was doing. So what did you guys think to Ian in this one?

Maria: Well, I mean, he obviously steps up and, you know, he's got the part of obviously being in the army and he's got to fight Ixter. And I find that all quite entertaining. I mean, the sword fighting does look really slow, to be fair. You know, they are kind of parrying a little bit and it's, it's a little bit slow by modern standards, but. And I love that. I love the way the, the other Actor pronounces Ian because he calls him Ian. Ian. Ian. So that. That makes me smile. But I. Yeah, I think. I think obviously his role, like you said, is to do the more physical stuff, and I think William Russell kind of does that trip. He. He's so good at it. You know, he really gets to. Stuck in because I remember. I think he's got stuff to do with Marco Polo as well and in the myth makers as well. You know, he's got very physical kind of. Oh, is he in the myth makers or maybe. No, he isn't in the myth makers, is he? There's another one that he. He gets. It's not the myth makers, I think. No, there's another one that he.

Harry: Maybe the crusade.

Maria: Oh, maybe it's the crusade. Yeah. Sorry. It's not the myth maker.

Harry: He does a little bit of. He gets in a bit of a tussle in that one. So.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, no, he. He. He actually plays that really, really well. I mean, you know, I can't say a bad word about William Russell. You know, he seems like such. He seems like such a nice guy, and I think he had experience because he played Sir Lancelot in a historical series. So, you know, obviously wearing armor or kind of having all that stuff on him, he doesn't seem to be phased by any of it, you know, so. And I love that fight scene that he has at the end with Ixter, because I think he throws him off the. Off the edge of the. And what they're on. Is it a pyramid? Yeah, I don't know what it is. Wherever they are. The platform. Yeah, wherever they are. So, you know, I think. Yeah, I think it's wonderful. It really adds a bit of dynamism of the story. Dynamism, yeah.

Garry: Yep.

Maria: Yeah, it does.

Garry: Yes. Yeah. He is very good in it. And there's a few. There's quite a few stories where a lot was put on William Russell, I think, because not only did he have to take care of, like, the physical side of. Of things whenever it got tasty, but we have to remember that back in the day, William Hartnell just went on holiday for two episodes out of the four or whatever it was. So it was really down to. To William Russell to. To carry it a lot of times. So whenever I re. Watch stories like this where he's. Yeah, it just. Huge, huge respect for him. Not only him, obviously Jaclyn Hill as well. And so, yeah, we were saying Maria, that Susan, bless her, she's not really. Yeah, not really in it much.

Maria: Yeah, I Know, she, she only gets a couple of scenes, really, doesn't she, where she's in the seminary and, you know, she doesn't really do very much handmaiden, to be fair to Barbara, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I feel a bit sorry for her because obviously she doesn't, she doesn't get enough to do in the, in this, in this story. It's sad, really.

Garry: Harry, what did you think to Mr. Hartnell? Mr. Hartnell throughout this one? Because he's in every episode.

Harry: Yeah, he is, yeah. Yeah, he is. Which, which feels like a rarity, to be honest, but no, yeah, he's brilliant in it and I think you can, you can, you can tell that. Well, I was gonna say that you can tell that William Hartnell was particularly fond of, of William Russell, Jaclyn Hill and Carolyn Ford because that, you know, they have such great chemistry and they act very well together. But I think actually William Hartnell, whoever he's paired with, you know, he's always fantastic. You know, there's, there's a narrative that he kind of gets a bit tired towards the end yet, sure, he's in it less, but I think he always brings the, the spark and, and the, and the whimsy. He's so whimsical. I, I, you know, I love. Yeah, I just think he, he brings a really nice energy to, to the role and it's because of him that, you know, the role is so iconic. He sort of set the standard. So I think he's great in this. And yeah, I love his little romance in it as well. And his, his reaction when. His reaction when he realizes that he's accidentally engaged to Kamaka is just priceless.

Garry: It's.

Harry: He plays it, he plays it really well. Pitch perfect. And, and I also really like the scene where he, he tells Ian that, that, you know, he's, he knows the way to the tardis, and also that he had Coco and got engaged and that's, that's how he ended up finding out. And, and Ian's reaction is. Is brilliant as well. And those two together are just. Yeah, they're just marvelous. They. Watching these episodes just really put a smile on my face. I love this opening era of, of Doctor Who. And as you know, I love William Russell. I love Ian. Ian Chesterton is probably my favorite companion. And I think what I wrote about him in the tribute that I wrote last year was that Ian's this kind of. He's got like, this can do attitude. So he's like, yeah, I'll, you know, I'LL become a gladiator or I'll fight Ixter, or I'll kill him to save my friends. I mean, it's ridiculous, but it's. You know, it works. It really works because William Russell is so charming, and I just. Yeah, I'm just really, really happy that this character exists because, yeah, he just puts a huge smile on my face. He's brilliant.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah, he's amazing. Agreed. Yeah. Okay, so, I mean, sort of rounding stuff out really, really good script by John Lucarote and overseen by. By David Whittaker back in this era. And although the direction's nothing really to kind of shout home about, it's a. It's a little bit static in. In most places. You kind of forgive that, to be honest with you, just because this is all brand new territory for everybody involved. You know, it's the first. The first run of Doctor Who, as we know. So, you know, everybody's sort of finding their feet. Surprisingly, the actors, not so much. It feels like they. They just got them. They got the memo from. From day one. You know, their characters are very natural, and even in these early episodes, it's all. It's all very good. So are there any sort of closing comments or anything? You guys want to. Want to comment on this story before we wrap up? I'll get your scores as well in a sec.

Maria: I think obviously you're talking about how. How. How much of a team that they are, and I think obviously working because they were doing it on a weekly basis in terms of how many episodes they got, you know, they got out over the year. I think that obviously, you know, they. They. They bonded really well. That team, those, you know, that original team are just so kind of tight. I mean, okay, the characterization of Susan probably isn't as good as it should be, but I think in terms of how they work together, they seem to be very instinctive the way they kind of work with each other and they support each other. You kind of get that coming through. Through the stories, you know, they become very close as a unit, I think. So I think it really shows in the end product. I'm not sure where they recorded the Aztec, whether they recorded it at Riverside Studios. I'll have to check, actually. But I know it was a very small set that they had, you know, a very small studio. So they probably. They, you know, because obviously with the, with the serial, it. It doesn't use that many sets from. From looking at it. So I imagine, you know, okay, it might have been Lime Grove, which I think was even worse. So.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, well, the first two. The first two episodes were Lime Grove, and then three and four was at Television Center.

Maria: Yeah, I'm not sure. But. But you know what. What they actually produced was, I think, really good in terms of the time that they had to kind of turn things around. I. You know, I. I don't really have a bad word to say about this story. I think it kind of. It stands up in terms of design and production. I mean, they've got some, you know, they've obviously got some beautiful costumes, and I really wish this was one of the stories that they decided to colorize, you know, because I think a historical would be fantastic being colorized. Yeah, I mean, they had some fantastic costumes, a great script from John Locrotti. You know, I can't really. I can't really complain. I mean, this is kind of near the top for me in terms of story, which is always important to me. The story is really important for me personally.

Garry: Cool. Yeah, I agree. Harry, anything from you, buddy.

Harry: I mean, yeah, like Maria says, it's. It's one of the best of all time. It's one of my favorites, I think. I mean, even though Carolyn Ford was on holiday, I. I do really still like her little bit in the. In the seminary. And her acting when she's. When she finds out she's been forced into a marriage is just so, like, so emotional and so superb. Carolyn Fork and really act is she just didn't get the best material as Susan Foreman, unfortunately. But, no, I think they all have their moments in this. This is a masterclass in how you balance kind of the. The screen time and the characterization of, like, a TARDIS team where there's, like a crowd of tardis. I think. Yeah, they did that very well. So, yeah, love all of them. Love the Fab Four. Love all the supporting characters. Love the production. Love how they realized it all. I mean, with an amazing script from John Lucarotti and this production team, you know, you have a recipe for success. I can only imagine how wonderful it would be to watch Marco Polo, another historical by Lucarotti, because if it's anything like this, it would have been mega. But. Yeah, but that might never see the light of day, unfortunately. Hopefully we'll see a really cool animation at some point. But. But, yeah, no, I just. I absolutely love it. And it's stories like this which just make stories like The Aztecs that remind me why Doctor Who's my favorite show. It's fantastic.

Garry: Oh, nice, dude. Very nice. We've also Got some rumblings and, and little, little whispers going on within, within the hu. Community at the moment about missing episodes making an appearance at some point in the near future. So you never know. Old Marco could be.

Maria: That would be so good. Yeah, it would be. I mean, I'm, I, I was just a bit horrified when Harry, I think Harry said, you know, what if this story had been missing? And I don't know if you said it, Garry. Somebody mentioned something earlier and I'm just thinking, what if this story didn't exist and we didn't have the episodes? I mean, it's just, you know, it's just unbelievable. The news, the news about missing episodes is actually really good. I'm really heartened by that. You know, we just have to be patient and kind of just wait and see what comes out. But I think any, anything that kind of comes through, I'll be happy with it, really. Because I think, you know, considering how the modern series has been left at the moment, you know, I think going back into classic, who kind of getting more stuff back for that would be fantastic. So, yeah, I, I know we haven't really spoken about missing episodes, but yeah, I'll be very excited to see what comes back. Hopefully it won't be too long. You know, I'll wait a year and then I might complain.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, it could be perfect timing for the guys making the, the Blu Ray box sets because they're still yet to go back to those early ones for that very reason. You know, they've got some animated stuff, but yeah, could be great timing for those, for those guys, but. Okay, Maria, what would you score The Aztecs then?

Maria: Well, it worked. It works on a drama level. It's got the educational element in it, which was really good. I think the performances are all pretty much thoughtless. I don't think there's anything I can complain about in terms of performance. Although the guy, is it John Ringham, he's a little bit, he's a little bit theatrical, but, you know. Okay, we'll let, we'll give that a pass. I'd say I'll give it a high score. I'd say I'm torn between eight and a half and a nine. I'll say. Oh, God. Eight and a half. Eight and a half out of ten. I think that's fair.

Garry: Okay, nice parry.

Harry: I'd probably give it a nine. A really strong nine. This one only. I only wouldn't give it a ten because, I don't know, I don't want to give out 10 out of 10 that freely nowadays, to be honest. But yeah, it's, it's a definite nine for sure. And even better, if you do what I did and watch The Aztecs in 4D, you watch it with a cup of cocoa in the middle, have a little, have a little interval between parts two and three and make yourself a cup of cocoa and then it's almost like you're there with them. So I think if it was in.

Maria: Color, I think that I would notch it up to a nine probably, because I think I would. I love, I love the richness of probably the costumes that they're wearing. And it's a shame it's in black and white because we can't, we can't see how good they probably are. So, yeah, I'll say eight and a half. But to be honest, it's not a story that I can have too many criticisms about. There's a lot worse stories out there.

Garry: Yeah, it's a shame that it's in black. The audacity of Verity Lambert to make Doctor Who when she did.

Maria: Well.

Garry: Just the nerve of those people not having the foresight to put that, put a sticker pin in it until color TV had.

Maria: I think ITV had color series, didn't they, in the 60s? I'm sure they did. ITV did. So I don't know. I don't know why it took the BBC so long to kind of get into color. That's probably an interesting story, but.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, who knows? Budget money, probably. Yes. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Revisit in the Aztec. So good shout for wanting to, to do that one. It was great to re. Watch it and, and, and give it a bit of a recap and our thoughts on it and stuff. So my score wouldn't change either. I initially gave it a nine back in 2016 and that score's gonna stay on that for me, I think. A good nine. It's just such a wonderful sort of four parter. It's one of those kind of sweet spot stories where there's enough to fill mostly the four reps. If it was a six parter, I think we'd be in trouble. I think that they'd struggle to stretch that out across six. So the four parts is pretty cool.

Maria: There's no padding with this, actually, and that's something that Doctor Who can struggle with. You know, you get to episode three and there's a load of padding before they finish the story. So, yeah, I think you're right. There's a lot going on in this to Be honest. It doesn't. It doesn't really stop moving. Yeah.

Harry: North.

Garry: Ah, well, what a lovely. What a lovely story to go and look at for the October roundtable. I'm sure for the next one, at some point in November, we will come back with whoever's going to be on a roundtable. Whatever they want to review will stick a vote in and they can throw a name in the hat and we'll do another story. Because this has been really cool. I love sort of diving back into stories that we did years ago or even just a year ago and revisiting and stuff. And more importantly, getting your thoughts on it from the roundtable because, yeah, luckily for you, you weren't around to hear Adam and I at the time recording in person.

Maria: So, yeah, I don't. I don't think I've listened to the Big Boo Box podcast from the beginning. Maybe I need to. Have I got. Have I got time?

Garry: You do not need to, Maria.

Maria: Do it.

Garry: In between Star Trek. No, you don't. You got another thousand episodes of that.

Maria: Have you done the pilot, actually? Have you done the pilot episode, Garry? You haven't. Have you? Or have you?

Harry: The pilot.

Maria: You know, the first one before the. The one that they did. The first one that they did.

Garry: Oh, the first time around. No, I don't think we did. No, I think we just did an Unearthly Child, and that was.

Maria: Okay.

Garry: Let me just double. Let me just confirm that quickly. Oh, no, we did do the. Oh, hold on. Okay, so we did an Unearthly Child back in as an episode 124, which we did in 2017, and we did talk about the pilot for a bit in that. So we did talk about that. The pilot in that review, but we didn't do, like, a dedicated full episode on it.

Harry: You should do an episode. Yeah, that'd be a really cool review.

Garry: I can't. Oh, crying all over the place. In the last third. I'll just be like, oh, for God's sake.

Harry: That is true.

Garry: I'd love to do it, though. I would love to. Yeah, I would love to do that. In fact, I will add it to the. I'll add it to the list and then. Yeah, we'll. We'll see what Adam says. He might be like, you know, for God's sake.

Harry: And then you could do Dimensions of Time.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah, if you can.

Harry: If you can bear it.

Garry: There's.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: When I was going through the list of things on the new website, one of the things is a complete list of every single Story from Doctor Who and. And our sort of correlating podcast episode review to that story in one giant table. And as I was going through it, I've noticed. And Adam's going to kill me for saying this. I don't think I've told him yet. But we need to review all the. Of the spin off of K9 that they did. You know, the more modern version. So I think we've got like 20 odd episodes of this weird canine thing that no one's heard.

Maria: Zealand one, the one you're.

Garry: That we need to.

Maria: Really.

Garry: Yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Harry: That's like a whole half year of podcasts. That's great.

Garry: Yeah, so he's going to love that. Where can you even get it?

Harry: Like, is. It is. Must be on dvd.

Maria: It's probably available. It's on.

Garry: Yeah.

Maria: On dvd, probably. You have to get it on DVD or something. Or Blu Ray or whatever.

Garry: Well, Disney are not gonna. Yeah, they're not gonna play ball anymore, are they? Definitely.

Harry: They can be like.

Garry: You guys can sod off. Who's. What's this? We want to talk to you about Doctor Who. Sod off. Been burnt by you guys already. Thank you very much. Plowed a load of money for nothing. The contract, you know, for three viewers in Seattle.

Maria: Got a hundred. 100 million. Was it 100 million pounds? I mean, can you imagine what they could have done with what actually came out? I mean, yeah, let's. Let's not go down that rabbit hole, but. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: Colorize The Aztecs for that.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: Twice over. Anyways, that is a good point.

Harry: Just, just a quick one, Garry. You can get K9 the complete series, which is region one. I think region one is. No, that's not. That's not in the UK. No. Bugger it. You'll have to get a region one DVD player as well then. And the tagline, which I think is hilarious. The tagline is, who's a good dog?

Garry: Shut up. Oh, God. Anyway, that'll be fun, won't it, Adam? That'll be fun. So anyway, on that. On that chirpy one. That is a good note. That is a good time to stick a pin in it there, folks, for the October Roundtable. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, dear listener, for checking back in for the monthly roundtable episode that was, of course, October 2025. Thank you very much to Maria and Harry for joining me. To recap the big news that has landed this week, that the Beeb has got full commitment to Doctor Who moving forward. They have grabbed Disney by the scruff of the neck and thrown them out out into the dumpster in the alleyway out of the back of the Bad World Studios. They're no more. See you later dudes. Don't need you anyway. So that's the news for that. And we also chatted through The Aztecs. Wonderful to to go down that little memory lane and re watch that and chat about that too. And high scores for that one, of course, a 9.8.5 all round four for that one. Remember to follow and subscribe to the podcast on your preferred podcast app of choice. That way you won't miss the monthly roundtables and when Adam and I get round to it back to talk about news and other stuff on the regular show. You can also check out all of the reviews and articles that this lot right on the on the website bigbu box podcast.co.uk and you can link off to the socials and the free Discord server. Maria, thank you very much for joining me.

Maria: Thanks Garry. It's been brilliant being back on the round table.

Garry: Thank you very much Harry. Good to get your thoughts as always, buddy.

Harry: Thank you Garry. It's been awesome. Happy Halloween everybody.

Garry: Happy Halloween indeedy. Hope you get some some trick or treat candy to watch some Doctor Who over the weekend. And so we will be back at some point next month for the November round. So table. So until then take care of yourselves and remember a Bunzy.