Roundtable November 2025: Latest Doctor Who News and TWBTLATS Talk

Garry: Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to The Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Maria: And I'm maria.

Garry: And welcome to the november round table. Yay. Thank you very much, dear listener, for tuning in once again to our monthly roundtable show. This is the November edition, I guess you could call it that. And it's a trio performance. This month. I'm joined, as you already know, by Harry and Maria. The other guys are either busy, sick, traveling, work, what? Take your pick, Take your pick. They're all doing stuff. So it's just us three. I mean, this is the best ones anyway, to be fair. Let's be honest. These are the best. The best two in the team to be on anyway. So. Not that we don't love the other ones, but. Yeah, yeah. So we have got some news to go through on this one. We were going to do a review of another story. We had a couple in mind. I think we've even watched one of them. But then it was a sensible decision to boycott that for another time just because one of the stories was. It requires a bit more in depth chat and analysis and a dive into. And we haven't got the time to do that with a few of us with an hour. So we're going to run through the latest Doctor Who news that's been circling around on the interwebs, socials, etc over the last few weeks. So we're going to go through mainly the information that's landed since the last time we spoke on the roundtable about the war between land and the sea. So we've got the launch date, we've got the Times, we've got some episode titles, the trailers dropped, all that stuff. And we've also got an interesting condensed special edition of a certain episode that's going to go out before episode one of Surf and Turf. So we'll touch on that briefly as well. And then a very, very quick update about Russell's plans for the Christmas special next year. And I say plans as in future stuff to work on because, yeah, turns out not a great deal has been done or planned thus far. So we'll touch on that as well. But before we dive into the news, Maria, how have you been since we last recorded?

Maria: Yeah, I've been. I've been good. I'm well. Which is. Which is good around this time. Yeah, I normally come down with a bug or two, but, yeah, no, I'm fine. I haven't really done anything Doctor Who related. I've been watching a lot of podcasts but that's about it. To be honest, I haven't watched a lot of Doctor Who. I was thinking of kind of cracking open some of those Christmas stories in preparation. You know, like, people open up the Advent calendar. I was thinking I might just start going through those Christmas specials in preparation. But, yeah, we're. We're. We're in December next week, so I might start doing that next week, but that's about it.

Garry: Nice. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. Getting the old Crimbo specials queued up. Because before you know it, Christmas is here and you're like, oh, don't have time to watch them now. Should have started watching them a few weeks ago, so. Yeah, it's good idea, that. Nice. Okay. I'm glad you're well, though. Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, when we get into this time of year, as winter approaches and starts to settle in, seasonal changes and stuff, you get the old lurgy and the bug, of course, but glad you're well. Harry. How are you doing, dude?

Harry: I'm good, thank you, Gary. Yeah, it's. It's funny because I was thinking, do my own little Christmas Doctor Who special marathon. I keep. Think I keep meaning to do it every year, but then I never get around to it. Maybe this year will be the year. Who knows? Who knows?

Garry: Yeah, but you should. You should do it.

Harry: I should, shouldn't I? Yeah, it'd be awesome. And there's enough of them now that, you know, you could. You could make a weekend of that. I'd be a pretty good weekend. Put up the decorations. Have some mince pies at the same time. Yeah. Mm. I'm excited already. But, yeah, I'm. I'm doing all right. And it's been a good doctor who related month for me. I finished my Sylvester McCoy marathon going to those stories. Yeah. Yeah. And I really enjoyed it. It's a really. It's a really solid era. I must admit, I don't think I'm quite as enamored with it as some other people are. I know that you love the McCoy era, Gary. He's your favorite classic Doctor, right?

Garry: He is, yes.

Harry: Correct.

Garry: Yeah.

Harry: Yeah, I totally see the appeal. I think I just prefer. I think Tom Baker is my classic Doctor, or maybe even William Hartnell, if I'm honest. But. But no, there's. There's some really good stuff in there. I think if I were to pick a favorite, I'd probably say Greatest show in the Galaxy. I think that was the standout one for me. I really, really enjoyed that. 1. And also curse of Fenwick, that Fenric can't talk. That was a close second. Yeah. And now I'm working my way backwards, so I'm doing a Colin Baker marathon. I watched the Twin Dilemma for the first time ever and. Yeah.

Garry: Yep.

Harry: Deary me.

Garry: Good soundtrack, though. I love the music to that.

Harry: Oh, interesting. I didn't really pick up on the soundtrack. I think I, I really enjoyed Colin Baker's performance. I absolutely love Colin Baker as the Doctor. I think he's. Yeah, he was really short changed, as we all know. And, yeah, I just think he made it, he made it watchable for me. He's. I just think he's got this, this gravitas and like, and he has that ridiculous costume, but, like, he, he, he, he outshines it. He kind of, you know, the way, the way that he portrays the character, it just. I don't care about the goofy costume. I think he's, you know, I just think he's a really cool Doctor. So. Yeah, so that's cool. A rocky start, but we'll see how that goes. And is there, is there anything else? I mean, I did want to mention actually, that if any of you Doctor Who fans out there are wanting some books for Christmas this year or, you know, someone in your life that wants Doctor Who books, Xavi are doing another really cool Doctor Who book deal. Three for eight pounds, which is pretty, pretty decent in today's economy, I would say. So, yeah. Xavi, three for eight pound book offer. It's not just Doctor Who books. There's loads of books, but there's some really cool ones on there, particularly the Terrance, the Essential Terence Dix, which is like the compilation of loads of Terence Dix's Target novelizations. Those are ones that I've been eyeing up for a while. And at the minute I can get them for a really good value. So I think I'm gonna do. I think I'm gonna do just that. So, yeah, get on it. I'm not sure how long it's gonna last, but. Yeah, that's happening right now.

Garry: Okay, that's interesting. Three, four, seven pounds.

Harry: Did you say for eight pounds?

Garry: Three for eight. Oh, yeah. Three for eight books. Okay. Yeah, looks good, man. Oh, yeah. I like the top row on Xavi at the moment, as you mentioned that. And the top row of books is pretty much Doctor Who.

Harry: Yeah, that's very cool. They must be having a clear out. They must need to get rid of them.

Garry: Yeah. So the Essential Terrence Sticks, they got volumes one and two, and they're 9.99 each.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: So if you're getting three for eight pounds, this is amazing.

Harry: Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty banging deal. You don't get deals like that anymore?

Garry: Not since I were a lad, no. Did you get deals on books like that? It were good. I tell the so. Oh, that's amazing. I might have to. Dude. Very nice spot. Yeah, a very nice spot. Because typically we talk a lot about the special edition Blu Rays DVDs, all that stuff. From a visual standpoint, other than touching on the Doctor Who magazine from time to time, we don't really talk about the books in great detail. I know Jordan's done a. Yeah, Jordan's done a bunch of reviews on like the old Virgin Adventure books and stuff like that, so he loves reading all that stuff. But yeah. Oh, there's a bunch of Target books on here as well. Very nice. Oh, have they got the. Do they have it? Do they have the. What's the last one I wanted to get. It was a story that we all spoke about and we said that the novelization, the target book is probably very good.

Harry: Paradise Towers.

Garry: Was it Paradise Tower? Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Yeah.

Harry: Oh, I must admit, right. I. I did purchase that after we. After we talked about it. I ordered it off of ebay. I gave it a read. It's still trash, I'm afraid. I still didn't enjoy it.

Garry: There was.

Harry: There was. There was. There was a bit. There was a chapter that was focusing all on caretaker, subsection 5, 3, 7, whatever the heck his name was. And like, it still had all of the. All the jargon, all of the, you know, like the bin line of fire escapes, weird lingo and stuff. It's. It's just. Yeah, it still doesn't really translate well because it's. It's just a load of nonsense. It's just a lot. It just feels like a load of nonsense. So, yeah, I'm afraid I gave it a go. Still not for me, I'm afraid.

Garry: Yeah, I see. There was that actually. Yeah, it was Paradise Towers, but if you're. Yeah, I'll go on your recommendation for that, but I'll add it to the collection at some point. The Target books. But.

Harry: Oh, yeah, there was one that I.

Garry: Really wanted to read. Maybe it was one that Adam and I, A story that we reviewed a while ago then, and we spoke about the novelization potentially being very good, supposedly. I'm going to take a stab at it being. Please hold, caller. Please hold. Not that this matters too much, but I think it was just trying to get all these bloody shooty reviews recently.

Harry: While you're looking at that, I've. I've developed a bit of an obsession with the most recent Target novelizations, the ones that. Of the most recent shooty seasons. I just. Mainly because I think the book covers are beautiful. That kind of like blue sort of color scheme that they've got going on. I really hope that they like, release subsequent ones in that style. I know that Joseph Lidster is. Is writing a new Target novel. I don't know which one, but I think that's coming out next year and there's going to be a few more like, miscellaneous stories. So I'm hoping for more kind of that look. That look like that. Because a lot of these Doctor Who books I buy just because, like, they look pretty rather than actually reading them, which I will get around to doing one day. One day, but one day.

Garry: No. Nice, man. Yeah. Cool. I can't find the story. I. So forgive me, Harry and dear listener, while I went off on a little mini hunt for that story. I can't. It will come to me at like. Yeah, when I wake up in the. In the morning, it'll be like, oh, it was that story. But anyway, we've lost Maria. She's. She's got some. Some bad Internet as usual. When she joins back in, she'll. She'll dive back in, I'm sure. So let's kick off then with the War between the Land and the Sea. First bit of news, which landed a little while ago. Everybody will know this anyway, this bit, but. And it's gonna land on the 7th of December, which is the first Sunday in December, and it will launch with a double bill. So the first two episodes are gonna drop at the same time, which is a reasonably popular thing that shows do these days when they just. They drop a couple to kick the story off. Bear in mind it is only five episodes. So we're going to get two of the five straight away. And then presumably over the next three weeks we'll have the remaining three episodes. So that will take us up to the 28th of December.

Harry: So we actually have another double bill on the 14th of episodes three and four. And then episode five is going out on its own on. On the 21st. And then I think they've done that deliberately so that it all five episodes are out to binge kind of over the Christmas holidays. That's. That's another angle that Russell's putting on this. It's a. It's a festive box set. That you can. That you can watch Gotcha while you're off work.

Garry: While you're off work. Yeah. Okay.

Harry: I can't think of anything better.

Garry: So. So. Okay, so we're gonna rattle through this pretty quick then, which I know is to be expected for the most part anyway. It's kind of a mini series, isn't it? It's only a, it's only a five parter. So there have been longer single story classic who episodes. There's been six part classic classic who episodes. So yeah, this is easy for, for, for veterans who have gone through the classic years who have sat through six part episodes and also the War Games, then this five parter will be a piece of cake. No problemo. So yeah, double bill on the 7th of December, double bill on the 14th, finale on the 21st. So the, the episode titles have been released as well. The first four at least. So the titles are here. So the first one is called Homo Aqua, second one is called Plastic Apocalypse. We can see where these are going. The third one is called the Deep and the fourth one is called the Witch of the Waterfall, Episode five, tbc. We don't have that yet. So we can probably gather from the first one that it is a. Maria is back. Maria's back. Hello. Here she is.

Maria: Hi everyone. Sorry, my, my, my Internet is rubbish. I do apologize.

Garry: No worries. We've just gone through the. The dates for the War between the Land and the Sea. Maria. We're just recapping that the Double Bill episodes one and two will end on the 7th of December. The following week on the 14th, it'll be another double bill. And then on the week after that it will be the finale, episode five. We've just gone through the episode titles as well. Homo Aqua, Plastic Apocalypse, the Deep, the Witch of the Waterfall, Episode five. Not. They've not given us the title for that as yet. So before I throw this to you guys to get your thoughts on this, to get your thoughts on the individual titles, your thoughts on the writers for this. So it's, it's a like a tag team between Russell T. Davis and Pete McTighe and they've kind of shared writing duties with it. So Russell writes episode one, episode five. Pete McTigh has written episodes two and three and then between them they've co written episode four. So they've kind of split writing duties between them. Your thoughts on this as. Because one of the reason why I asked this first is because one of the main criticisms that we've had of Russell since he came back Especially the previous season leading up to shoot his finale finale episode was. We were kind of unanimous that we felt that Russell wrote a bit too much. He should have maybe stepped away a little bit, overseen a bit more, got some other writers in rather than then write, you know, everything, trying to do a lot of it himself. So based on that, what are your guys thoughts on him writing half of this, albeit with Pete McTighe?

Harry: I mean, yeah, I think I've had my fill. Yeah, I really bring the bacon to I. Gary. Yeah, it's. I mean, yeah, I think I've had my fill of Russell really these past couple of years because like we say he's. The ratio has been very high, hasn't it, in, in on his end for the episodes that he pens and yeah, you know, I, I think it's really cool in a show like Doctor Who where you can have different writers every week and that's, you know, different voices and I mean that's kind of, that kind of helps the show because the show's a variety show in a way. Yeah. For the War between the Land and the Sea, which is going to be like this serialized drama. I think it's cool that he's writing essentially half of it and I mean, pinch of salt, like it's going to be sort of children of Earthy kind of Russell writes really cool like allegorical dramas and this kind of, I mean, you know, judging by the title Plastic Apocalypse, it sounds like it's gonna be sort of in that vein. So. Yeah, you know, I think I feel like this is where Russell shines and actually maybe it'll be a bit of a gear change from Doctor Who. So it might be a good thing. It might be a good thing. We might not see the same sort of problems crop up. Touch wood. Pete McTighe on the other hand, I mean, I've got to be honest, I've not really enjoyed his Doctor Who episodes. I think he did Lucky Day, which I thought was rubbish. He. He wrote Kablam which was fine. I think he did another one, I can't remember but, but obviously he wrote a lot of the trailers for the collection box sets a lot, you know, and, and they were wonderful. So double edged sword, you know, it could go either way. I hope we get good Pete McTighe because, you know, we know he can be good. I've not really. I don't know whether he's had much experience writing dramas and things like that, like allegorical dramas like Russell T. Davies done. So who knows, he might Be good at that. But yeah, well, we'll have to see. But yeah, I'm glad it's not all Russell. It worked really well for Children of Earth because Children of Earth was a mix of Russell and was it John Fay? I think that was the other writer's name.

Garry: Yes. Yep.

Harry: Yeah. And that worked really well. So. Yeah. And I also like how it's all directed by Dylan Holmes Williams because he was a brilliant director for the episodes of Doctor Who that he did and it kind of provides a little bit of consistency, kind of like visual tonal consistency you would imagine by having the same director all the way through. So, yeah, I think judging off of that, I'm optimistic.

Garry: Yeah, optimistic. Nice. Okay, Maria, what are your thoughts on. On this? Do we reckon. Do you reckon that Russell is. Can give us a bit. Bit of a different take and a theme on this stuff or you. If you. Have you been burnt from Doctor Who?

Maria: It's a bit difficult to say. I would say probably it's interesting that Russell's right in the beginning and the end episodes, so he's kind of doing the introductory bit, which I'm assuming is going to include. I don't care. They're sea devils. They're sea devils. I'm not going to call them homo aqua or whatever. It sounds like a bottled water. I mean, you know, doesn't exactly. Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. So. Yeah, so I think it's interesting that he's going to do the introduction because I want to see obviously how different these. This new species, I'm assuming they are some kind of new species will be in comparison to the sea devils or if they're, you know, because I know sometimes they. They vary them and say all their cousins and all this kind of stuff. So I think with. I think with Russell, he's good at all the kind of. I suppose he is good at writing character pieces, I suppose. And I'm interested to see how all the different unit characters are going to interact, I Suppose, with Pete McTeague. He is kind of very issue laid, I think, on some of the stuff that he's written. Doctor Who though, I suppose it could be a good mix. I'm just wondering how they're going to fill it for five hours, if I'm honest. I mean, I don't know how much story there is in five in how much they're going to. How much they're going to do over five hours. I mean, children of Birth obviously was. Was something that Russell wrote and he wrote it. He wrote it very tautly and you know, it was a very good piece of drama. I'm. I'm hoping this is gonna have. This is not gonna kind of disappoint in that way. I mean, it's very difficult. I mean I've. I've only watched. I think I've watched the one trailer. I don't know if there's been more. I've only seen one trailer. I think a lot of it sits on Russell Toby shoulders by the look of it. I don't. You know, and obviously he's going to be. He seems to be a really important character in it from what I can see. So a lot of it's going to sit on his shoulders. You know, is he the hero? You know, how are Eunuch going to get involved? How much is Kate Stewart in it? I suppose it's very, very difficult to say. I think he can. He can be good at. He's not always been good at wrapping up stories. And I suppose I was gonna say, you know, that worries me a little bit for the conclusion. But then again, you know, he did write Children of Earth and I thought that was wrapped up quite well. So I don't know. I mean, they've both got different strengths, haven't they? You know, I think, you know, I think there obviously is an issue in terms of the issues that they're bringing up around plastic pollution and things like that. I suppose it's very. It's very of the moment. Will it actually interest people? Is it something that can sustain over 5 hours? Very difficult to say. I don't know. I've. I've heard that there might. It might have adult themes in it as well, you know, and I'm not sure how I feel about that, you know, if there's a into species relationship and stuff like that. So. Yeah, I'm not sure we won't know really until we see it. But I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping, hoping that it gives me more than I expect. Yeah. I'm not saying that there's so little that I've seen of it in terms of trailers. Difficult to say really.

Garry: Yeah. Gotcha. That makes sense though. I totally get what you're saying. It's. Yeah. There's a. A kind of air of trepidation amongst. Especially people who weren't too taken with shoot his last season. If you know the who fans that were not really feeling that, I think they'll go into it with a little bit of. Yeah. I would say though that I do agree that as Harry was Saying maybe this will give him the sort of change of pace and change of gear that was needed from Doctor Who. Because I think back in the day when he was overseeing Torchwood, that obviously had adult themes and it was a.

Harry: Bit more.

Garry: Not risque but, you know, a bit more sort of late night TV than, than Doctor Who, the main show. So. And that had some absolutely fantastic episodes that he wrote for that and also in the opposite direction as well for Sarah Jane. There's some bangers from there as well. So he has this habit of, you know, when he switches gears and, and focuses on something else that's not the main Doctor Who show. He can result in some really, really good stories and stuff. So who, who knows at this point? But it was interesting to get your guys thoughts on that.

Harry: I just wanted to weigh in real quick. Right. I just realized that Pete McTighe also wrote praxis.

Garry: Oh, Praxis, of course.

Harry: And that's interesting because that was also about plastic pollution, about microplastics and I thought that was a really good episode. So yeah, it's interesting that he's also writing for this spin off and there seems to be an element of that here. I think it's, I mean, say what you will about Doctor Who being political. I mean, you know, Doctor Who's always been political, so, you know, it's nothing new. But I think, I think this is a really important issue and I actually think it's really cool that this spin off is talking about it. And yeah, I just hope it's not heavy handed and I hope they deal with it in a sort of intelligent kind of way. But yeah, no props on them for doing that for like a primetime weird fish show that's going to be on BBC1 on Sunday nights. That's pretty cool.

Maria: I get a sense that they're going to kind of focus on obviously what man's doing to the planet and things like that and making humans out to be the monsters. So, you know, that could, that could potentially be quite interesting to, to explore. You know, I think, you know, there's, there's quite a bit that can be explored around that. I'm hoping it, I'm hoping it will be quite political in some ways because I think, you know, that, you know, if it's got a message, as you say, Harry, not to be too heavy handed, but I hope it is going to be political, you know, because I think that, you know, that could leave an, that could actually leave a good impression. But, you know, rather than, you know, concentrate too much on the Steedevils, I think, I think the human drama is actually far more interesting. So. Yeah, let's see. I wonder, I wonder why they're sharing episode four. That's interesting that they're actually sharing that. So maybe, maybe that's where obviously maybe things are coming together.

Harry: I'm very interested by the title, the Witch of the Waterfall.

Garry: That. Yeah, that sounds really cool. Yeah. It could be for a number of reasons the co writing thing. It could be that one or the other one hasn't been able to quite nail the, the script and so they've lent on the other person to, to come in and, and rewrite and do that stuff. So they get credit for that.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: Or it could just be that they ended up in the pub.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: Few brandies, a few sherries. I mean, and away you go.

Maria: I mean Pete McTeague, he, he wrote during Christmas Chibnall there. It isn't he. So that it's not. They don't. There's not. I suppose there's not a common ground there between them. So it could be quite interesting to see what they, what they both bring together to the story. I actually liked Kerblam and I, I didn't mind Praxias. I mean to be fair, it has been quite a few years since I've seen them. I think I did re. Watch Kablam Blam. I'm not sure if I rewatched Praxia but I, I think I liked them at the time. I know I definitely like Blam. I haven't really watched anything else that Pete McTeague has done, so I can't. I know, I know he's done quite, he, he, he did quite a lot of folk stuff in the early days and then he's obviously moved on dramas. So I'm, I'm not quite sure of his pedigree at the moment. I mean he's done some really good shots shorts for the Blu Ray box set which I've actually enjoyed. I think they've been really good. But that might have been because they were shorts. You know, I haven't, I haven't seen anything. I haven't seen anything of this length with him involved. So I, I think that, I think it could be a good combination. I'm. I'm starting to come around to it. I think the, I think, you know, obviously when the news first broke about this spin off, I didn't quite know what to make of it. You know, considering that it's also using a creature that we, we know from classic as well, you know, Sea Devils and things like that. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I mean, as long as they treat them respect respectfully, you know, it could actually be a good drama. I mean, I, I, you know, I think there's a lot of negativity around it because I think, you know, those episodes could have been used in the series that we've just seen with Shooty to actually expand some of those ideas. Probably a bit better, but, you know, we've got a spin off. Let's see what it's about. What I think is interesting is when they've actually put in them out because I think the 7th of December is when they're doing the finale of I'm A Celebrity. Get Me out of Here. I'm not sure. I think it's playing opposite that. So it'll be interesting to see if, if it can actually pick up loads of viewers that don't like reality tv. If that's the case.

Garry: Yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah, It's a bit, it's both, it's both a risk and you know, you've got to give it, you got to give these things a shot, you know. But having said that, we've said so many times now over the last. What? Well, last couple of years that viewing habits are so different these days. You know, it's not all about the. How many people are sat on the sofa with a cup of tea at that very moment of an evening watching TV anymore. It's kind of like that, I guess, for like the older, older generation, but just the watching public in general. You've got people that are recording stuff on sky and watching it later. You've got people that watch it on iplayer later and stuff like that. So yeah, it will go up against those on like the nightly, the nightly viewing figures. But like the other stuff is very different these days, isn't it? And so. Yeah, but I get what you're saying, though. It's. It's a risk to put it up on a. On against those other programs because it's also going out, isn't it on? It is BBC1. Yeah. I was going to say, is it BBC2 or one? But yeah, it's BBC1, BBC1.

Maria: So they've given it, they've given it a good slot, to be fair, you know, so hopefully very good slot.

Garry: Halfway.

Maria: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean the thing is, obviously there are some shows that people still want to watch live, I think, I don't, I don't think, I don't think Viewing habits have changed that much in that there aren't some programs that are kind of of that moment, you know, and people tune in live and I think, I think I'm at the I'm a Celebrity finale. I think that will, that will draw people in because obviously if people have been watching for the last sort of two or three weeks, they'll want to see who's obviously the winner. So I think people will watch, will want to watch that live. So, yeah, I think, I think the series, if it can garner enough interest, will pick up more on iplayer. I think you're right about that, you know, definitely. And you know, maybe that's something people will watch later on rather than on the night. But yeah, I mean, BBC one, you know, they've got a good slot so they, they give it a shot. And I think you said it's a double episode the following week as well. Yeah, so they're pushing it out quite quickly. They're not kind of, they're not, I suppose they're not kind of, they're not building any momentum with it. I suppose they're just putting it out and seeing how it will go. But yeah, it's, it's December, I suppose, you know, people, people will want to sit down and watch something in December, coming up to Christmas. So it could do well. Could do well. Especially on the 20, 28 day figures, which I think is what the BBC tend to look at. They tend to look at the 28 day figures they could do. Okay.

Garry: Yeah, very true.

Maria: Yes.

Garry: Harry, what are your thoughts on the trailer?

Harry: The trailer? Which one? The one with Kate talking to the camera?

Garry: No, the, the standard trailer.

Harry: I don't think I've seen it, you know.

Garry: Oh, God. Which trailer, Maria, have you seen the trailer?

Maria: I have seen the trailer, yes. I.

Garry: What are your thoughts on the trailer, Maria?

Harry: Oh, no, I'm letting the side down.

Maria: It looks, it looks very, very. It looks very dark, both in tone also in, in the way it's actually being filmed. I think there's obviously a lot of night shooting that they've done, so that kind of lends a bit of atmosphere to it. It was okay. I mean, it wasn't the best trailer that I've ever seen in terms of. I mean, obviously there's a world threat, you know, and you can see there's obviously two opposing sides. It's not anything new in that respect, but it was, it was okay. It was fine. I thought it looked, it looked nice. Wasn't a trailer that would kind of, if it was you know, it's not a film trailer that would kind of encourage me to go and watch it in the cinema. But it was fine, it did its job. It kind of explained the plot. Quite explained what to expect, I suppose. You know, two opposing sides, issues around pollution. There was a bit of politics. I think there's some politicians in there. So I think we know, I think we know what we're signing up for with it. It kind of, it does what it says on the chin.

Garry: Gotcha. Gotcha.

Harry: There is a new trailer that just came out while we've been recording. It came out 28 minutes ago.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, so that's, so I'm referring to like the one that Maria's watched, which is basically like, you know, Russell Tovey talking to, I think her name's Salt, the character from the, the Sea Devil character. And they're, they're having a bit of a conversation and, you know, there's some other characters and there's a couple of fight scenes and all Harry's looking bewildered.

Harry: Yeah, completely missed this.

Garry: I, I, there's three trailers. There's one which is like a tick tock style portrait video thing of, of Kate Stewart.

Harry: That's the one.

Garry: Just basically, she's basically just saying, look, the sea devils have, or you know, the aqua people, whatever you Sheen calls them, I can't remember. She's like, they've made themselves known to the world. So this is a turning point. This is either gonna go very wrong or very right. We need to treat this carefully. Enemies will be made, friends will be made, blah, blah, blah. You know that. Yeah. Then there's the actual trailer that Harry knows nothing about. And then there's the trailer that's just dropped. Just literally now the tides have drawn us together.

Maria: We would speak with him. Me, homo aquito is you W. We inherited their world. They want it back. We will flood, we will drown. We will choke. We could end the conflict between our species.

Garry: Today's the day we stop.

Harry: Oh, is this, Sorry, I think I feel like I'm digging myself. But like, is this trailer that we're talking about the one that was shown after the reality war?

Garry: Yeah.

Harry: Oh, I've seen that one.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: Right. So, Harry, trailer. What are your thoughts on the trailer, Harry?

Harry: I went, it was on in the cinema after. Yeah, that rubbish episode. I can't remember. I might as well not have seen it because I don't remember anything about it. But I remember thinking, yeah, it looks okay.

Maria: Yeah. I must admit, I think the one with Kate Stewart, I didn't particularly like that one. I think that kind of style of talking state the state to the camera is quite old fashioned. I don't know, I just kind of, I didn't feel it brought anything. I mean, I know it probably wasn't, it wasn't meant for television. I just saw it on YouTube. But yeah, I didn't like that too much. I don't really like kind of just looking at someone's face and they're kind of telling me what's going on. I think it's a bit of. What is it? Show, don't tell? Don't show, don't tell. And I think that was a bit too much. Tell me.

Harry: I will say that I actually preferred that trailer because, well, it was nice to see a familiar character from Doctor Who kind of at the forefront. But also visually I thought there was some cool little like CGI shots as well because, you know, this is like that. This is the last product that's going to be using any of that Disney money. And you can see it in that trailer, which is really cool. Cool. And I just flicked through the new trailer hot off the press and there are some really visually striking shots in that, especially of some of the homo aqua. So yeah, it looks really cool. The trailers have definitely gotten better and more memorable as they went along.

Garry: They definitely have, Harry. Yeah. So three trailers all in all. Two official ones, one five months ago that Harry can't remember. One that's dropped. We're recording this. It's now 8pm on a Thursday night in the UK. One that dropped literally 30 minutes ago and the kind of teaser y trailer thing with Kate Stewart. But I will say, guys, that I am, I am liking the look of this. You know, I said this a few times now. I think this could be very cool because we, and I say that with a sort of air of sort of fingers crossed, of course, based on what we've, we've all said in the last 20 minutes or so but. Or last 40 minutes. Wow. But I do think that we're due a really good Sea Devil story. You know, something that's not your average like, oh look, everyone's happy and now the Sea Devils are here and they're a threat and we need to defeat them. And yes, now they're defeated and now everyone's happy again. I don't think we need another story like that. I do think we need something different. And it looks to me like this could be me reading into this either very, very wrong, very, very badly or I've got this bang on, but it seems like there's a love interest between Toby's character and the main sea devil character. I'm getting like flirty vibes from those two. So that could be interesting, couldn't it?

Harry: Well, they, There was an interview with Russell Tovey and Google and Batha Raw talking about their favorite scenes and Google said that her favorite scene was they were submerged in water and apparently it was, it was romantic. So I knew it. Make of that what you will, you.

Garry: Can see a mile off.

Harry: I mean, I think it's a bit weird, to be honest. I thought the Shape of Water was a really strange film. I think it's. I think it's proper strange. I'm not gonna lie.

Garry: It does have a weird. I don't know. It has a weird. It depends on what the tone that they go with, don't they? It could be a very nice kind of romantic Disney style. I don't mean. And I say that very, very poor choice of words based on what just happened with our friends at Disney.

Harry: Salt will become a princess. Yeah.

Garry: It could have that kind of Disney esque, kind of, you know, Beauty and the Beast kind of thing. Or it could be a Torchwood, that kind of thing. Raise one eyebrow as I say that. Yeah. Who knows?

Maria: Oh, I think, yeah, I, I'm, I'm a bit, I'm a bit with Harry. It's, it's a little bit weird. I mean, you know, I loved my goldfish when I was growing up.

Garry: But that's as far as it goes, right? It was just a mutual appreciation of. I like watching you swim, I like you giving me food. That's as far as it goes, right?

Harry: Yeah.

Maria: I'm sorry, this is just too weird for me. I mean.

Garry: Come on, it's 2025, Maria. Come on.

Maria: Oh, listen, there are some really strange people out there and you know, there might be these things going on behind closed doors, but honestly, I, I mean, I suppose, I mean, okay, this has got Disney money in it and maybe there is going to be a little bit of kind of this kind of fantasy element of romance in it, but it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable to be honest. If that.

Garry: Loosen up. Come on, it's. There's no more lines anymore. Come on.

Harry: Okay, well, Gary, you never mentioned this when we were talking about what spin offs do we want to see from Doctor Who.

Garry: This is, this is a revelation. Yeah. An insight into my weird brain.

Maria: But if you think about what actually made. Okay, let's go back to Children of Earth and what made that quite successful. It was the fact that you had a monster and you had the humans against it. And I think we know where we stand with those kind of stories. Whereas if you're kind of thinking, oh yeah, there's going to be a bit of romance between them, a sea devil and a human, it is just a little bit, it's a little bit icky. I mean it kind of going into areas it doesn't really need to. I hope there isn't going to be any of that, to be honest. But I've heard there are some adult tones in it. So who knows? I might have to just, I might have to just shield my eyes away stuff like that is happening.

Harry: Something a bit fishy about it for sure.

Maria: Something a bit fishy.

Garry: We went through all the fish puns, didn't we, before?

Maria: There's no place, there's no place for it. You know that.

Garry: Okay, so. All right, cool thoughts on the war between a land and a sea. I think our, we can summarize as a group here that we are looking forward to it, but we're not kind of expecting this to be an Oscar winning, you know, TV show of the year. Groundbreaking sort of thing. Has the potential to be very good, but based on Russell's, you know, hit and miss writing of the last couple of years, also has the potential to be one huge fire, dumpster fire of a, of a thing. So we'll, as always, we'll go into it with open eyeballs and, and see, see where we go. The other interesting thing I wanted to touch on, guys, is the quote unquote proper sea devils that goes out before episode one on BBC4 and BBC iPlayer on Sunday the 7th.

Maria: We're abandoning ship. We're abandoning ship.

Garry: Well, you'll be wanting to see the prisoner fight doctor.

Maria: Ms. Grant.

Garry: A concentrated beam of heat deliberately to sink a lifeboat.

Maria: Yes.

Garry: Am I to take it that you're a changed man?

Maria: This is our planet.

Garry: We're not going to hand over the world to a lot of lizards.

Harry: You know, those reptiles, Doctor, were once the rulers of this earth.

Maria: Let me make one final attempt to negotiate. These apes cannot be trusted. You have just made them angry. Very, very angry.

Garry: So this is kind of a very cool thing. I know Maria's gonna absolutely hate this, but this is, I think this is a quite a cool thing. So the BBC are putting out a special 90 minute condensed version of the original six part adventure with updated sound design from Mark Ayers and an enhanced score by Lorne Belf. Lorne is the guy that's Composed the music for the War Between Land and the Sea and they're going to kind of integrate that new score into the Sea Devil soundtrack a little bit to give it some kind of consistency between the two stories. And yeah, so Russell, sorry, Maria Russell has said 52 years after they first rose from the depths of it's Sea Devil's Night across the BBC, a great idea never dies. And viewers young and old can now heed the warning. Watch the seas. I'm very sorry, but that's just got David Brent written all over it. A good idea is a good idea forever. Yeah, so good. Excellent. Yeah, brilliant. So the Sea Devils, what do you guys think of the BBC deciding not to just put on the six part story in the run up to the first episode of the War Between Land and Sea, but to spend time, bit of money, bit of know how to edit this into a special hour and a half thing, new sound design, all that stuff. What are your thoughts on this shoot?

Maria: Well, from what I understand there is already a 90 minute version that was made years ago with the agreement of the original writers and the original production team. So I suppose this is a case of spending money where you don't need to in terms of doing another 90 minute version of it. You know, like, I mean it's not even the original people that are involved in it obviously. It's a new set of people doing it and putting their own imprint on it. And I, I think I've spoken about this before about kind of taking something original and then trying to put your own spin on doesn't. I'm sure, I'm sure in terms of the story itself that that won't, I mean, I don't know what impact that will have because they'll have to obviously cut I think two episodes off the story. I don't know what impact that will have in terms of story development and things like that. I'm hoping that will be okay. I'm not sure about putting a new score on it and you know, do you really need to do that? I know, I know why. I know what you're saying, Gary, about why, how they want to have something that's equivalent to the new series that's going out, but it just feels like a bit of a waste of money to be honest. If you've already got a 90 minute special that's already been done, why, why do it again? You might as well spend the money and go and color something that's black and white and color it and bend it in a different way. I Don't know, it's a bit of a mystery for me. Yeah.

Garry: Yeah, I see, I see what you're saying. Yeah. So you think that the money should have been more sensibly used. More sensibly for, for something else. Gotcha. I think Maria's breaking up a little bit. I think her Internet might. Yep, she's, she, she's gone. She's gone. There she goes. So Maria was absolutely correct because they, they did this with a few stories back in the day. So mid-70s, they did an omnibus edition of the Sea Devils. It went out on BBC1 1975 and this was quite common. They did this with about a dozen stories, I think, from, from the classic years, maybe more than that, where. So, you know, a year or so, at least a year after the original stories went out and they wanted to repeat Doctor Who, some of these four parts and six parts. Obviously it was, you know, quite a lengthy time to do that because back in the day, back in the, the early days of television, Doctor Who was designed to be watched weekly, where you'd watch the episode, you'd have the cliffhanger, then they'd leave you waiting for a week and you'd look forward to coming back and watching it and stuff. So if they wanted to repeat it, it means blocking out TV time for many, many, many weeks to do these multi part stories. So they used to do this sort of edited, as I used to call it, an omnibus edition. So Maria's right. So that was back in the 70s. So I, I'm not sure if the 90 minute feature that we're going to see on the 7th of December is just that same edit that they did for the omnibus version in the 70s, but they've just tweaked the soundtrack and so on. Or if it's a brand new edit, a brand new, you know, 90 minute thing put together, I can't find the exact details for that. I don't know if you can correct me, Harry, if you can find it.

Harry: But the article put out by the BBC Media center says fans are set to be transported back to 1972 with a newly re edited version of the classic story. So it looks like it's going to be from scratch, edited together. And I believe Benjamin Cook is attached to the editing duties on this like he has been for the colorizations and the recent Pyramids of Mars edit that they did. So. Yeah, and those have been hit and miss and to be honest, I think it's mainly depended on. Well, I mean, the Daleks in color had some Stupid goofy music running all the way through it which completely killed the, the atmosphere. But also, you know, it doesn't help with something like the War games when it's 10 episodes and you're trying to cut it down to 90 minutes. I will say six devil, six devils sea devils is a six parter. That's what I was trying to say. Genesis of the daleks is a six parter and I remember watching a 90 minute cut of that on the Blu Ray, which I think is one of those omnibuses that you were talking about, Gary.

Garry: It is.

Harry: And yeah, I, I gotta be honest, I can't, I think it flowed really well and I, I couldn't really tell what they had cut from that. So if they can do it with Genesis I reckon they can do, do a good job here. And I think it's really cool that, you know, I personally think it's cool that they are spending the money on this. Like I think it was great that they did the Pyramids of Mars when it was topical when Sutek was coming back. And I think it's cool that they're doing this now with the music from the guy who is doing the music for the Twix. Yes, Lorne Balf, who by the way I was looking at his, can you call it a filmography like the stuff that he's written music for and he's done some, he's done some cool stuff. He's, you know, he's done like Marvel movies and stuff like that. So yeah, it's pretty, pretty dope. Yeah. So I am looking forward to this.

Garry: Yeah, same.

Harry: Yeah, I'm looking forward to this a little bit more than the spin off, I got to be honest. But yeah, but I'm looking forward to it all. It's all going to be fun, you know, I mean what else am I going to do?

Garry: Yeah. But thank you for clarifying that. Yeah, I found the, the article now. Yeah. So it clearly states there a newly re edited version to be broadcast ahead of that first.

Harry: Also it cannot wait until the evening to watch it. You can watch it from 6am the morning of. So on Sunday 7th December you can roll out of bed not even crack of dawn. It's it's blooming December and you can watch it in the dark cold morning. Yeah. Wow.

Garry: Okay, sounds, sounds all right. That was that on series. Was that on the. It was, yeah. So the DVD Blu Ray collection sets season nine, that omnibus edition is on there from the seventies.

Harry: Oh nice. I've yet to buy that one. Yeah, that'll probably be my next one. To be fair, I might watch them and compare because I'm kind of sad like that. But yeah.

Garry: We'Re not saying anything. Dude, you carry on.

Harry: I mean, we're all here. We're all on a Doctor Who podcast or listening to a Doctor Who podcast. Let's be real.

Garry: We are not saying anything. So we're not sad at all.

Harry: We're cool, I think.

Garry: Yeah. So they were reasonably popular back in the day. So as an example, we're talking about the Sea Devil. So on that season nine box set, the Blu Ray collected edition, they've got the omnibus editions of the Sea Devils and Day of the Daleks. So, yeah, I've not seen the Sea Devils omnibus. I've seen the Day of the Daleks one. When I started plowing through the special features when this came out, it wasn't too bad, I must admit. Maria, welcome back. We were just saying that you are absolutely correct in that they did already do an omnibus edition of this, of course, back in the 70s. And we've just done a bit of digging and clarified that this is. They're not just using that same edit with some updated soundtrack stuff. They are doing a complete new re edit of the story into a 90 minute special with the, with the soundtrack that. The updated bits. And then I was just saying that on the Season 9 Blu Ray collection set, which I think you've got, Maria, I think you collect those, don't you?

Harry: Yeah, yeah.

Garry: Omnibus that you're talking about is on there along with.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew, I knew it was on the Blu Ray. I just, I just, honestly, I don't get time to watch it, but I knew it was on there. So. Yeah, okay. I mean, I, I will give it a go. I think, I think one of the things that I found with obviously re editing things and adding new music, it tends to, you know, it tends to be a bit hit and miss about whether it works or not, I think. I mean, from what I understand, the new composer has got some pedigree. So I will watch it. I mean, hopefully it's not too jarring. I think what I found with some of the colorizations that they did, where they added music at certain points, it was, it was too intrusive. So I will, I will kind of watch it and just see what, you know, obviously see how it flows where, how the, how the incidental music kind of sits with it. It'll be interesting because I, I like quite subtle music. I don't like anything too loud and bombastic really? So, yeah, let's see.

Garry: Yeah, no reader. I think it just. Yeah, it just needs to fit the tone of the story, doesn't it? If so, if there's a few scenes where then that is required because, let's face it, Murray Gold did his fair share of bombastic, you know, stuff. Yeah. In terms of stuff that he's done, though, like loads of big, big stuff. Yeah, loads of stuff. Jesus Christ. Like Terminator, Genesis, the Lego Batman Movie, Churchill, Mission Impossible, Bad Boys, the Tomorrow War, Black Widow, Top Gun, Maverick, Black Adam, Dungeons and Dragons. Crikey. Beverly Hills Cop, Axl F. Wallace and Gromit. He's done the lot. Wallace and Gromit. No way. Yeah. Wallace and Gromit. Vengeance most foul.

Harry: Ah, that was. I must admit, because it's fresh in my mind that the music in that film was really good. He did a really good rendition of the Wallace and Grand Gromit theme and. Oh, yeah, it was superb. Yeah, the music's going to be cool in this show. 100%.

Garry: I think so. Yeah. It's going to be wicked. Oh, he's done some. He's done some video games as well. Done loads of work with Hans Zimmer. Loads of work.

Harry: Wow.

Garry: With Hans Zimmer. Yeah, they've worked together on loads of things.

Maria: Do you.

Harry: Do you think. I don't mean to be doom and gloom here, but do you think that this is potentially because we have a Disney budget for this show that they were able to afford him?

Garry: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's quite a big. He's. Because his work is so varied and he's been doing it since 2004. 2002. He's been working from. And we're talking like the biggest studios in the world with some of the highest grossing films in the world.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: You know, this is big, big monies to get this kind of composer in. So.

Harry: Yeah, we should enjoy it while we. While we have this kind of thing in a. In a Doctor Who spin off about sea devils. It's. Yeah, yeah. No, that's really cool. Wow, that's going to be. That's going to be really cool. I also think that once we. Once we're out of the Disney deal, I wonder if we'll also still get these re edits of classic stories as well. I feel like that may. I mean, well, I have no idea, but I wonder if that comes out of the Disney budget also, because it'd be a shame if we don't get those anymore because I've really enjoyed Them. I know I didn't really like the Daleks it in color, but also it's fun to see a reinterpreted version of like the old favorites, you know, that's fun in its own way.

Garry: I think that's the important thing to, to note with some of these things as well, is that the BBC have not gone down the George Lucas route of saying, here's the old original stuff and we're going to lock that away. And officially you can't watch that anymore. We're only giving you the option to watch the newer versions of this stuff. That's, that's. They're not doing that, which is good. What they're basically saying is, look, all of the original stories that you know and love are on iPlayer, DVD, Blu Ray, VHS, whatever you want, you know, go and watch them, you know, the originals, if that's your thing, if you're a purist, you know, stick to originals, that's fine. All they're saying is, here's an alternate version that we think you would enjoy, you know, have at it. And I think they did this with. What was it? Because we had a quite a deep conversation on one of the podcasts ages ago where Russell basically said, look, we're putting these together because we want younger fans to be able to dive into Doctor Who, and we can't expect them to sit through four and a half hours of a classic story these days, which unfortunately is very true. So here's like a condensed version that will hopefully, you know, keep your interest enough to, you know, to get into it and then the doors open for you to then experience more Doctor Who. So it's kind of like an alternative way to get especially younger fans into the show. There was one story or a few stories they did that with and everyone lost their minds on it. I was. The War Games. The War Games, yes, that was it. And everybody lost their beep about that. It was like. But that's exactly what I'm just saying, you know, they didn't take out of circulation all of the original version of the War Games and said, you can't watch that one anymore. You can only watch the omnibus version. That's not what they're saying. And I think that rule we have to keep that sort of in the back of our minds, I think, almost talking about sort of condensed versions or omnibuses or re edits and stuff like that. If you don't want to watch it, you don't have to watch it. You can just pull your VHS player out or your Laserdisc, Betamax, whatever you've got. Rip it out the loft, plug it in. S video, probably maybe composite crt. Have at it.

Maria: Do you know what though? I think, I think the BBC have missed trick really, because the original classic series was 22 to 25 minutes long. I don't see why they can't put classic stories on like, and do 20, 25, 20 minute episodes with the cliffhangers and to show them over a week and kind of keep doing that. Do you know what I mean?

Garry: Well, they can. There's nothing stopping them doing that. But unfortunately, Maria, the younger generation won't do that. The younger generation will be like, okay, and let's be honest with ourselves here, fans, team, there's a reasonable amount of classic Doctor Who stories that are between four, the either four or the six parters. And some of those are Paddy. Mm, let's not, let's not look at this with rose tinted glasses too much. There's quite a few stories where the middle part is quite paddy. And so if you're asking a teenager with their phone in their hand the whole time to say, okay, what would you prefer? Here's, here's an hours long omniverse edition or 90 minute hour and a half version. Or you have to sit through six parts of this while you've got Instagram on your phone on the go. TikTok on all that stuff. It's not going to happen. As much as it pains me to say that, you know, the younger generation are just not going to sit through six parts of classic Doctor Who that way.

Harry: It's also not marketable because you can bet money that they're going to put this on Blu Ray or maybe even make a steelbook out of it or something. Oh, actually they'll probably, they'll probably put it as a special feature on the war, the War between, the Land of the Sea, Blu Ray or something. They're doing a book of that. Yeah, I'll probably get it.

Garry: That could be cool.

Harry: Yeah, yeah.

Garry: So I understand what you're saying, Maria. There's absolutely nothing stopping them at all from, you know, repeating the stories, doing them weekly, throwing a little bit of money at the marketing to say, yeah, Doctor Who back on, back on the tv, you know, enjoy it as it was when it first went out, cliffhangers and all and all that stuff. But people our generation our age will watch them, of course. But you know, Harry's lot just.

Maria: I'm, I'm just aware that the way that they built a fan base, especially abroad, like in the US and in America was. Sorry, in America and Australia was they, they were repeating the stories all the time. So I, I would, I would say if you had Doctor Who on year round, so you were repeating a classic series and people knew what time it was on and when it was on, I still think you could build a fan, you could build a fan base from that. I, I don't think I know what you're saying about young people, but don't they scroll on their phones for hours looking at short, looking at videos and all sorts of stuff?

Garry: Yeah, and that's exactly why they won't stick with it. You know, having said that, there was an idea, I don't know if they're still going to do it. There was an. I'm not sure if they'll ever do this for Doctor Who, but there was an idea and I think it was Disney plus that we're going to do it, where they were looking into this concept of creating a, a channel for some of their ip. So when I say a channel, I mean instead of going on to a streaming app like Netflix or Disney plus, and then you select a film and watch it, or you select a TV show and start watching it, you don't have the choice of what that individual. So say if they did one for Marvel, it would just be a streaming channel and 24 7, they would be playing all of the things basically. So they'd play like, you know, a series of, you know, like the Avengers films. And then they might play like, you know what they're called, S.H.I.E.L.D. that series. You'd see episodes of that and then you might see like Black Widow film and that sort of thing. So they did. There was, I'm pretty sure that they were looking into doing that. So if they did that with Doctor Who, where you just had 24 7, all of Doctor Who playing on shuffle, all different stories, classic new spin offs, the whole lot. So people could, you know, in the background just have Doctor Who on or if you, you know, you want to sit there and watch it. So something like that, I think could be very cool because you're just kind of spinning the wheel. If you like, you, you know, it's like, oh, should we, should we stick the Doctor Who channel on and just see what's on. So I think something like that could be wicked. That could be really, really cool. But I think the, the, the concept of like the BBC saying for the next six weeks we're gonna play an episode of the Sea Devils, tune in at, you know, whatever time to Watch that. It would have to be outside of peak viewing thing because, you know, their viewing schedule will be packed with like prime time modern TV shows. So it would have to be on like late at night or midday or some, some rubbish like that. And yeah, you just wouldn't get the uptake. I don't think as sad as it sound, this is making it sound really sort of doom and gloom, as mad, as sad as it sounds. But that is the reality of, of, of modern television, you know, that's the thing.

Maria: Well, I mean, if, if you're, if you are going to get a modern audience then, and a younger audience, that means they have to do omnibuses for every story then, don't they? If, if that's the only way to kind of attract young people to watch something, maybe.

Garry: I'm not saying that's the only way. What I'm saying is for the big popular stories from classic who, the ones that you would say, okay, these are the ones that are more likely to attract or to, you know, get people hooked. I think it's those big popular stories that you would put in omnibus format and then if younger viewers buy into that and they're like, actually, that was pretty cool. That's your foot in the door for them to fire up iplayer and look at other Doctor Who. I think that's the, the route into.

Harry: It, you know, or the most topical stories, like obviously picking the sea devils because they've got a spin off, because young people love the trend.

Garry: You do, we do, yes.

Harry: Yeah.

Garry: You do indeed. Yeah, yeah. So, but again, you have to sort of take, you have to take the other side of the coin with all this as well. And that is there has never been a more easier, more accessible time to watch all of Doctor Who and all the spin offs. You know, if you've got itvx, I think they still have ITVX in the us where you can watch all of. All of Doctor Who and everything that is on Doctor Who. I will say Doctor Who is on repeat more in the us, in North America than is in the uk.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: So whenever, whenever I'm on, on vacay in Canada or US and we're in a hotel room and I've just got an hour to spend because Mrs. Blue Box is taking an hour to get ready and I'm sort of channel surfing, more often than not. I'll see like BBC America or Space Channel in Canada or something like that. They're repeating Doctor Who. I've seen countless episodes of Matt Smith's era, Ecclestone and A bit of classic coup on that. The other thing as well, Maria, is that if you really want to target, like some of the older. Some of the older viewers. I know we've spoken a lot about the younger generation and trying to get them into it, but I think back in the day, guys, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Doctor Who did go out on UK Gold.

Maria: Yeah, there was UK Gold. I know, I know. I was. I. I could never get it. I mean, I mean, my, My parents weren't going to get it, but I knew that they played Doctor Who continuously.

Harry: On there now, UK Gold, Is it an old.

Garry: Oh, no, no. It's going strong, dude. It's one of the most. It's one of the most popular.

Harry: Oh, nice.

Garry: Channels on. On terrestrial TV in the uk. Yeah. So for listener. Listener, if you're listening to this and you're in. Outside of the uk, UK Gold is a station TV station here that plays like old school television programs, like back in the day sitcoms and. And all that stuff. It doesn't do films or documentaries. It's literally just drama and sitcoms and that sort of thing from, like, I don't know, the 60s onwards up until, I don't know, like the late 90s, early 2000s, I guess. I can't. I can't remember exactly, but I know Doctor Who was on there quite a bit, going back a few years.

Maria: I think they used to do a lot of Tom Baker on there. I don't know if they did.

Garry: I did, yeah.

Maria: Yeah. So I think, because those were really popular Doctors back in the. Back in the original time. I think I. I think that's what kind of got people excited again. So I think, you know, if. If you were to start with classic, you'd obviously probably start with Kurt William Baker anyway, so. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right, Gary. Yeah, I think you're right.

Harry: You still Want to watch UK gold? It's now been renamed since 2020, 24 to you and gold, which is interesting.

Garry: Yeah. There's a bunch of stations that all got like, shoved into one new group. Remember the channel, Dave? Yeah, Dave, Yeah, I think that's part of it. That's part of the you thing now and all that stuff. Yeah, you and Dave. So basically they just. I think it's now a conglomerate of.

Maria: I think Dave used to show a lot of Red Dwarf because I remember Red Dwarf watching. Watching quite a few episodes of that on there.

Harry: Oh, you and Drama. I remembered the Drama channel showing some Doctor Who omnibuses that's where. That's where I first watched the Aztecs, I think.

Garry: Okay. So anyway, there's a bunch of channels that would probably be quite willing to pick up some classic Q again, and then that would obviously target your, Your older, Your older generation, the demographic that typically tunes in for those. You'd be good. Anyway, TV demographics and viewing habits aside, the Sea Devils omnibus will go out, much to the chagrin of Maria and other Classic who fans, and it will go on BBC4 at 7pm on Sunday and then it will be followed straight away by the double bill of the War Between Land and the Sea, which starts at 8:30. Also, you have to flick over to BBC1. What a chore having to turn the bloody Channel over from BBC4 to BBC1. Just watch it all on iplayer. Just put the kettle on an iplayer. So that's that last story before we say goodbye. And it's a very, very quick, almost nothing story, which is. Russell T Davies was interviewed recently about where he's up to with the 2026 Christmas special. Come on, Russell, update please. What's going on with the most important thing in your life, AKA the Doctor Who? He basically said, sodor is what's happening with the Christmas special thus far. So this is the Radio Times interview with him and they said, have you started work on the Christmas special yet for next year? He says, not at the moment because I'm busy on the War between the Land and the Sea. I'm also shooting a new show up in Manchester, so when my plate clears after that, presumably next year, we'll get to work on it. So no progress yet on that. They did go on to say he's keeping quiet on the actual story details and themes, but he has confirmed that he's got all the plots and all that stuff worked out. So he says, I know exactly what's going to happen in the story, don't worry about that. He just actually needs to write the script and bring it to life. So. So that's the thing with that. So Harry's bursting with excitement.

Harry: At the thought of that. I don't know how I'm gonna sleep until next Christmas, let alone this Christmas.

Garry: Good. Couple this with the AI videos of Billy Piper and Paul McGann on set.

Harry: Ah, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's. Yeah, I'm. I've got a bee in my bonnet about the AI thing, I think. And this is a. This is a bigger conversation than Doctor Who, really. But, you know, for. As a tool for, you Know, helping you with stuff work, that kind of thing.

Garry: It's to help you with aws.

Harry: Yeah, yeah, you know, stuff that kind.

Garry: Of, you know, don't. Yeah, fine. Yeah, fine. Let's just go.

Harry: But, you know, using people's faces and creating fake imagery and, and all that kind of stuff.

Garry: That's.

Harry: That. I don't think that's cool, man. And, and yes, in the Doctor Who sphere, we've got these fake pictures of Paul McGann and Billy Piper looking at a script and like, some rather physically impossible TARDIS set designs. And also people still wearing face masks on the crew. I mean, I know some people still do wear face masks, but that's fine. But, yeah, it's. Yeah, that's all been very annoying and that's all been very negative, so I don't want to focus on any of that. But this is. This is kind of cool. It's kind of cool that Russell knows what he's to. Going.

Garry: Gonna.

Harry: Gonna do. I mean, I would hope so because he. He was writing scripts for series three, but he, I mean, that, that, that might not happen. It might not happen with Russell. So, like, who knows? But, yeah, no, I can't wait for Christmas 2026. We might as well just skip Christmas 2025, you know.

Maria: Yay.

Harry: No, I'm sure it'll be all right. And if. If we do have Paul McGann again, I don't care if it's seen as desperate or jumping the shark or whatever. Like, you know, I would love to see Paul McGann. I bet all of us would love to see Paul McGann or any. Yeah, yeah. Past doctors or whatever. Yeah, no.

Garry: So, yeah, it's all. It's one of those things where going back a few years when there was absolutely nothing going on with Doctor Who, no news, no updates or anything, the fandom entertained themselves by just hitting Reddit or forums, Gallifrey base, whatever you want to, whoever you want to go on, and just trying to squeeze as much info as they could out of whatever sources they claim to have and then just debate and talk about it all. Nowadays, as you were saying, with AI at their disposal, they're now creating what they think will be, you know, in this upcoming special and, and then trying to pass it off as legit and all the rest of it. So we've gone from people having healthy discussion, well, say mostly healthy discussion online about stuff that, you know, there's not much going on to now taking that to a whole new level. And like. Well, actually, I think that Paul McGann is in the upcoming special. So I'm Gonna put Paul McGann on set and, and do all this stuff. So, you know, I just think it's kind of run away of itself a little bit.

Harry: I mean, you know, again, like, bigger discussion than Doctor Who, like AI image generation. It can be used for rather insidious means. But, like, I just think it's rather annoying when, you know, we're being misled by things like this and it's. Yeah, I just don't think it's. I just don't think it's necessary and I would implore anyone to, to not to create those images, to not create those images and, and try and spread fake news and anything like that. But. But then again, I guess it's just like any other tool. It's just like when, like, like people making like fan trailers and things like that. It just so happens that this form of fan content is particularly convincing and might sort of lead you astray. So. Yeah, and it doesn't help with managing expectations because people might genuinely be, genuinely be conscious convinced that Paul McGann is coming back when he might not be back at all. So, yeah, I don't know. I've got to be in my bonnet about it, I'm afraid, Gary. But yeah, it is what it is. We can't stop it, Rachel.

Garry: No, you can't stop it. And Maria, we were just saying that it's a bit of a nothing story really, just to finish up on. But Russell T. Davis hasn't started writing the script yet for next year's Christmas special because he's busy with the Warburton Land in the sea and a different TV show that he's filming in Manchester, blah, blah, blah. But he knows exactly what it's going to be about. He knows the plot, he's got it all up in his head, just hasn't written it yet, which I know you're bummed about because you can't wait for that, of course.

Maria: Oh, yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to see what comes out of Russell's head next.

Garry: Oh, dear.

Maria: Yeah, I, you know, we were, we were saying, obviously there's quite a few things to, to wrap up in the Christmas Story because I, I assume this is a one and gone story that he's doing. So. And I somehow think that he's not, he's not going to do what we expect. So, you know, I, Yeah, you know, I don't trust, I don't trust what was, what's in Russell's head anymore, you know, not since he was talking about that Peter Purvis dressed as a cow or something in unit, something like that. Yeah, I don't really. I don't really trust what's in his head. You know, hopefully he won't let us down in terms of what he's thinking. But, you know, he's still, you know, he's still got his, you know, he's still got his issues in terms of the things that he wants to talk about. I'm hoping that he doesn't do any of that. He just gives us, you know, a rollicking adventure, kind of ties things up because I'm assuming there'll be an announcement about a further series once. Once this airs. Wasn't. Wasn't that what we were told, that there was a new series coming? So I'm not assuming that he's going to be a part of that. So maybe I'm making assumptions there.

Garry: Yeah. We just know that from that press statement that they put out, the BBC, that is that they just said that they're fully committed to Doctor Who and just the Christmas special is just going to be the next thing on the conveyor belt. What's coming after that? By who? When? Starring who, whatever. Nobody knows about that stuff yet, but certainly the Christmas special for next year is. Is definitely happening. But, yeah, no idea when Russell's going to get to that. I mean, you'd think that he'd have to get to it reasonably soon into the new year, but who knows? Who knows? So who? Fans. That has been the latest Doctor Who news mainly centered around the war between the land and the sea, of course, because that's the new thing that's about to drop around the corner. When is it? Next weekend, isn't it? Yeah, next weekend. Next Sunday. So that's the next thing that's going to drop. So that's what the chat has been about. And then a little bit from Russell about that stuff. Maria's gone, bless her. And her WI fi. Hey, her router. I think her WI fi router is like one of those, you know, in Back to the Future, you know, the first one where Marty's at the beginning just going through all of the. The stuff in the. In. In the doc's place. And it's just all these weird contraptions built out of, like, stuff that explodes and there's sparks coming out of it and all the rest of it. That's. That's the vision I have in my head when I think about Maria's WI fi setup. Bless her. So I don't think Maria's gonna be back for the say for the Goodbyes, but Harry, I think that's a good place, dude, to wrap it there for the November Roundtable.

Harry: Alright.

Garry: Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for checking out the November Roundtable with the Big Blue Box team, 1 1/2 of them at least. That was Harry and Maria joining for the latest news around the waterland and sea and a bit on the upcoming Crimbo special. Really interesting chat on that one, Harry. Really good to dive into your thoughts on the. That era of Doctor Who in general, the Sea Devils, the story, some of the sort of mini controversies around it with the omnibus and, and the, the homo Aqua and all that stuff. But I think ultimately we got going to tune in regardless. Right. And chuck it out.

Harry: Yeah, it's going to be a really cool fishy Christmas, I'm sure. Yeah, no, I reckon we'll have a good time with it. Thanks for the great chat as always.

Garry: Yeah, it's been really cool. Very, very cool. And sadly Maria's dropped out, in and out. But we'll pass on her goodbye on her behalf. Make sure you are following or subscribing Dear Listener to the Big Blue Box in your preferred podcast app of choice. You won't miss all of these cool episodes. And when Adam and I are free and we do the standard weekly stuff, you'll get all that as well. We're on the socials too. You can find links to those on the website, which is bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk and you can check out all the reviews from this slot. And we have a very a free Discord server. Hop in there and chat Doctor Who with plenty of other cool Doctor Who fans and talk about everything Doctor Who related. We'll be back next month for the December Christmas Roundtable. So join us then.

Harry: I love a Christmas roundtable.

Garry: Love it ain't any. My name's Gary. My name's Ari and remember.

Maria: Sat.