January 2026 Roundtable: The War Between Closing Thoughts and More

Garry: Hey, hey, hey, who fans and welcome to The Big Blue Box podcast. My name's Garry.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Maria: And I'm Maria.

Garry: And welcome to the January Roundtable. Yay. Welcome back who fans, to another episode of the Round Table. We hope you are keeping well and safe. We hope you had a fantastic Christmas and New Year and that you've all managed to do something Doctor Who.

Maria: Doctor Who related.

Garry: She's in again.

Harry: I was never going to win that one.

Garry: She's in there again. We'll have to watch this. I think she's coming in at the last minute. It's like being gazumped on ebay or. Or something like that.

Maria: It is exactly what it is like.

Garry: We think a. You think you've won the item. He's like, yes, I've got this in the bag quite liter. And then with like three and a half seconds, it's like, now you've been sniped by. Anyway, the first episode back for 2026. We genuinely mean that. We hope you had a cracking break to celebrate with whatever you were doing over Christmas and New Year. But now as we career through January, it's. We're over the halfway point now, which is good. So the. The bulk of January is behind us, which is a good feeling. Get this month out the way and then it feels like you're back to a little bit of. Of normality. We're going to talk about on this episode, the closing episodes to the war between, because we, if you guys listen to the December Roundtable, the first two episodes had launched by that point, so we dived into that and gave you our thoughts on. On that stuff. So there's three episodes. We won't go into mega amounts of detail. Don't worry. It won't be a huge deep dive into those episodes, but we will speak about them, our thoughts on them, and then that series as a whole. And then we'll finish up with some little bits and bats around Doctor Who and a couple of little things that have been happening in the world of Doctor Who. There's no. Just spoilers. There's no big news to talk about. I think every. Certainly all the. The various Doctor Who podcasts and YouTube channels that I personally consume are all running a little bit on empty at the minute. It's a bit. A bit dire out there for news. Every time I see a new episode drop for a podcast that I listen to, I'm like, yes, here we go. This is going to be either something that I've missed, some news that I'VE not heard something like that. And then it's just like, yeah, so we're a Doctor Who podcast and we're going to dive into the reign of Morbius. And you're like, oh, cool, love that story. But not much. I think that's just an example of not much going on in the world of Doctor Who, which is to. I mean, when before we recorded, we were talking about some other things that we've some other irons in the fire. So to speak with other podcasts Maria mentioned is like, yeah, we got sod all on till. Till Christmas for Doctor Who's which. Very correct. So there we go. But we are here to keep your. Keep your Doctor Who train going, as it were. Harry's got his sonic screwdriver very ready to go and his figure of Paul McGann. It's a shame Matt's not here.

Harry: Oh, yeah, he would have loved it. Absolutely. Save it for next time.

Maria: Actually, Matt's working on that Dalek, you know, the one that he's been building for. How many months is it now?

Garry: How many years?

Maria: Six months. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's working on it tonight. Yeah. Bless him.

Garry: Yeah. We should actually say we are absent a couple of people, so Matt can't be with us. Matt's busy, Jordan's busy, Adam's busy. So, yeah, we've got the best three bunch on this one. Harry, how have you been, my good man?

Harry: I've been okay, thank you, Garry. Yeah. January has felt like forever. I know it's a bit of a cliche to say, but. Yeah, we were just saying before we start recording, January feels like it's been three months in one, so it'll be nice when February rolls around. But yeah, I've been doing quite a few Doctor Who related activities recently. Well, mainly just been consuming stuff. So I've been watching through Colin Baker's era because I'm sort of going backwards a little bit through the classic series. So I've started with McCoy. I've watched all of that and going through Colin Baker. I am loving Colin Baker as the Doctor. It's been. It's been a while since I've seen any of his episodes, but I, Yeah, I don't know, I feel like I'm seeing him in a completely new light. Like I think he's utterly fantastic in that role. So that's a. That's a thrill ride for sure. I'm also reading a book at the moment, a Doctor Who related book. I'm reading Dracula, which is one of the. I guess you could call it the sort of classic literature, classic IP crossover novels. They've done a bunch of them, like with Alice in Wonderland, the wizard of Oz, etc. Dracula is written by Paul Mars. He's written a few of them. And this is with the first Doctor, Ian Barber and Susan. And it. Oh, it just captures that era so well.

Garry: Yes.

Maria: Yeah.

Harry: He's always calling Ian by a different name. It's dead funny. And he's just got. He's got the. The mannerisms of Hartnell, like, nailed down perfectly and it's such a. It's such a delightful read. That has been really, really good, so.

Garry: Sounds good.

Harry: Yeah, I've just been.

Matt: Yeah.

Harry: Reading and watching the best of the best from Doctor Who, gearing up for a year of probably very little news, but more conventions, more events and things like that.

Garry: Yeah, yeah, nice, dude. Talking of Ian and Barbara and Hartnell and so on, towards the end of last year, I posted on Socials a couple of times, but nothing big. But it was just that feeling of starting off a brand new Doctor Who rewatch. So I think it was like October or something like that. I started at the very beginning. I mentioned it on one of these, but it's taken me a while to get through them. But I finished up the Dalek Invasion of Earth today. I finished the last episode on my lunch break. I think that's the beginning of series two. Yeah, it is, yeah.

Harry: Yes, yes. There's plenty of giants just before.

Garry: That's it. Yeah.

Harry: But it's kind of. Dalek Invasion of Earth really is almost like a pseudo season one finale. It feels more like that.

Garry: It does, yeah. And do you know what bit I'd forgotten about that story, amazingly, that we say goodbye to Susan and at the end of that story and that I've got to say, mate, that hit me like a ton of bricks today. I don't know what it was. Maybe I'm having, like, I don't know, just an emotional time. I don't know, I have no idea. But when Susan says goodbye, and the way that that was written was so beautifully done because she doesn't even get to say it to the Doctor's face. She's outside saying it to David, the guy that she ends up with, presumably. But they can hear her inside the tardis. So when it cuts to those three, Ian and Barbara and the Doctor inside the tardis, you can see Ian and Barbara's face and they look a bit like, this is it, this is the end of this four TARDIS team. And the Doctor then goes into that lovely speech that was very famous, you know, go forward in all your beliefs. Oh, man, it just.

Harry: Don't. You're making me. You're making me sad, dude.

Garry: Talking about it, I'd. I'd not forgotten the speech, but I had forgotten that little run up to it with Barbara saying. Susan saying goodbye. I just hadn't seen it in so long and it just hit me out of nowhere. I was just sat there like, just eyes welling up and.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, it does catch you unawares, actually, because it's such a long story and there's so much that happens in. In that story in terms of development with all the main characters and the supporting characters. You know, you really go on a real adventure with that story. So. Yeah, that bit at the end, it kind of. It's understated really, isn't it? It's not. There's only one bit which I think I don't like, which is where Susan kind of tells David that she loves him and she kind of says, I do love you, I do. And it's kind of. That's a little bit overplayed for me. But the rest of it. Yeah, ye. The rest of it is so beautiful the way it's played out. And you really, do you feel so sad as she kind of. I think she drops the TARDIS key, doesn't she, at one point.

Garry: Yeah. And the camera zooms in on it at the end. Yeah, yeah, it's lovely.

Maria: And yeah, it's such a lovely moment. But yeah, I get what you mean entirely. I kind of forget that as well. Because you're so drawn into that story. You've got so many interesting characters. I mean, I. I don't know. Did Terry Nation write that whole. Did he write that whole story?

Garry: I believe so. I believe so.

Maria: Yeah.

Garry: Yeah, yeah. Just. So that's where I'm at, the rewatch.

Harry: Garry, I really want to know what was your favorite of season one that first season? Because I find it really hard to pick, but I wanted to know if.

Garry: You had a favorite, a favorite from series one. Are we. Are we defaulting to seasons or series? I don't want to drag up an argument. Adam and I have not an argument, but a subject that we've.

Harry: I guess officially it's season for the classic, classic series.

Garry: Yeah, I mean, I really, really liked the Aztecs. I really like that story. It's got such a. Some interesting over the top, chewing the wood characters. It's just really entertaining. You know, it's a bit of a kind of historical, you know, Merge with sort of things. But, yeah, I really like the Daleks and I really like the Aztecs. I think those two stories. And of course, an Unearthly Child. I'm a bit. Don't get me wrong, I like it. I really, really like that one. It's. It's obviously a. A milestone episode and a big moment for who, of course. And I. I do like it, but I think I prefer the Daleks over that, just because we really start to get into Ian and Barbara very quickly, establishing themselves as their characters that they're going to be for the next two or three years. And they really hit the ground running with that stuff especially. Especially William Russell. He just absolutely nails that chemistry with the Doctor where he gets frustrated with him and, you know, the Doctor gets frustrated back and there's this to. And throw between them. And you've got Barbara and Susan, who are like peacemakers in one way, but on the other hand they've got their own stuff going. So, yeah, that. The chemistry between those four just really kicks off wonderfully in the Daleks. And I love the soundtrack to the Daleks as well. It's got this real eerie atmospheric. It was. You could really tell that. You could really tell that Varisi, Lambert and those other people just really. Yeah, they just really delivered on that kind of. Yeah. So that whole. We want to make a. Like a science fiction show, but give it a little bit of an edge and make it not like, you know, the other science fiction things you've seen before. So there's going to be a little bit of, not horror, but like a little bit of that. You know, kids are going to be scared, but you're going to love it at the same time and all that. And we could talk about this for hours and stuff, but. Yeah, so I like the Daleks and the decks, mate. What about you?

Harry: Well, yeah, the Daleks is definitely up there. It's. It's a real. It's. It's got a real classic kind of Sunday afternoon adventure kind of vibe to it. A bit like it's kind of up there, or even more so than something like Raiders of the Lost Ark, for me, a kind of iconic sort of adventure story. I absolutely love it. And I also. I really love the Aztecs. I really love every episode in that first season. It's. Yeah. Season. Not. Not series. We'll get it right. I think it's a. I think it's a masterpiece. But I want to show a bit of love to the Reign of Terror. I don't think it gets oh, yeah, yeah, enough appreciation. I really, really enjoy that one and it's. I'm glad that we have the missing episodes animated and we can sort of view it all in full. It's a shame that we have to watch Marco Polo in Telesnaps. I hope that gets animated at some point or God forbid someone makes an AI recreation of it. Although I must admit I've seen clips of people using AI to recreate missing episodes and I hate to say it. Yeah, it does look pretty cool.

Garry: Yeah, it's not bad at all. Yeah, yeah.

Harry: I don't know if I want to go down that rabbit hole again, but yeah, no, it does look pretty cool. Cool.

Garry: No, yeah, the Reign of Terror wasn't too bad. I found it. I, I, to be honest with you, I did find it a bit plotty when you get onto the tyrant of France and a bargain of necessity, those two EPs. But having said that, a really good script from, from Dennis Spooner, I think. Was it Dennis Spooner or was it Peter Newman? I'm sure it was Dennis Spooner. Pretty sharp scripts for back then and. Yeah, pretty good. No, I agree. Maria, what you, what your thoughts actually on, on going back to the, the beginning, the series one? Is it the Aztecs you like or the Romans from series two? It's one of those two you really like, isn't it?

Maria: No, I, I do like, I do like the Aztecs very much. I think that's one of the ones I would probably go to because, you know, you're going to have a good time watching that. You know, there's a bit of, there's a little bit of comedy in it. There's loads of drama in it. I think another story, I would say, from that first series, which I like is the Edge of Destruction. You know, the one that's set only in the tardis.

Garry: Oh, the little two parter.

Maria: Yeah, the little two parter, yeah. Because there's that bit where Susan is really, really strange and very alien and I really, I really enjoyed kind of seeing her do that, you know, and she got away with kind of pointing. Was it a pair of scissors, Ian? I think, yeah. So I enjoy that one. I enjoy the keys of Marinus as well. You know, there's a lot of good stuff in that first, in that first season, the Reign of Terror, I haven't seen in ages. What I remember watching my DVDs, I think the quality wasn't very good on the episodes that existed, so I found it a little bit off putting. I, I know it's Been animated, hasn't it?

Garry: Yes.

Maria: And I don't. I don't think I've watched the animation. I must actually. I think I've still got it in cellophane, to be fair, so I probably should have a look at that.

Harry: I must just say the animation on the Reign of Terror is very like. I don't know if you guys have watched any anime, but, like, when it gets like, super exciting and eventful, like there's loads of like, quick cuts and like close ups and it's like super dramatic. Yes, it had that kind of feeling to it. It was like, very frenetic. It was a bit. A bit of an odd choice, but yeah. Yeah.

Garry: Oh, infinitely better than telesnaps. Yeah.

Maria: I mean, I'm really hoping when we start getting some missing episodes back that we can complete some of these stories because I think. I think. I don't think you can really appreciate it when you're watching only animation with some of these stories. I don't think it. I don't think it works entirely. I mean, I'm thinking of. Was it Pat Troughton story? Was it Fury from the Deep? Which I really didn't like in animation.

Garry: Yeah.

Maria: So, you know, I think if I. If I could see the live, live story, I would be able to make a much more informed decision about whether I actually like it. I think I find animation is so variable these days, it's difficult to kind of really know the story. Anyway, yeah, that first season is actually really good. I think there's a lot of the strong stories. Definitely. I would go back to the Aztecs, an unearthly child. I can sit through episodes two to four because I. I don't think it's that bad. Yeah, I mean, okay, it is about cavemen and. And whatever, but I still think it's a good story. I mean, yeah, some of these stories are a little bit ploddy, but if you think about it, you know, they weren't meant to be seen all in one go. So, you know, you have to kind of make a few allowances. And to be honest, I'd much rather have the episode than not have it, so.

Garry: I agree. Yeah.

Maria: Actually, it would be interesting to think about. Okay. If you could swap and bring a missing story back, what would you swap it for? I'm trying to. Trying to think if there's any. Oh, I know, probably the web planet. That's probably the only one I would probably swap out because that was the one I found absolutely turgid to get through. Honestly. I just. I found it so hard. I mean, it was so hard to actually sit and watch that whole story. If that one went missing, I don't think I'd mind wash my mouth out with soap, but, you know, maybe bring back some Marco Polo.

Garry: Marco Polo, Yeah. I think a lot of people, whenever you say to people, what missing story were you keen to. To have back? I think Marco Polo is up there, isn't it? It's normally in the top two or three that people say that we should have back. And yeah, it's a real shame because when I finished watching the Edge of Destruction this morning. The Edge of Destruction, sorry. When I finished watching the Dalek Invasion of Earth this morning, I had a little look through to see what was coming up. Not immediately after the next one's a little cheeky little two part of the rescue, but further down the line when you get into Trout and stuff. Oh, man. Especially series four, because, you know, the first two episodes are Hartnell, aren't they? You know, he finishes up with the tenth planet.

Maria: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Garry: And then, so those obviously all intact. We haven't got the smugglers before that, but the 10th planet is all rocking, apart from the last episode, which is animated, I think. But when you get into season four, like, most of Troughton's stuff in that series is all missing. So as I was looking through it, I was like, okay, that one's animated, the next one's animated. Rinse and repeat. And it's not until you really get into his final series, really, with, you know, it starts with the Tomb of the Cybermen, you think, okay, we're back on track now, we've got the episodes back, but then, no, the next one after that, the Abominable Snowman, most of it missing. The Ice warriors, some of it missing. So, ah, it's a real shame for. For Trout and stuff. Real shame.

Maria: Well, yeah, because I think. I think the thing is you. You don't end up kind of learning very much about the companions as well. You know, they don't end up being your favorites because you can't. You can't sit and watch all of Jamie's episodes or you can't sit and watch all of Ben and Polly's episodes. So, you know, you don't. You don't really get a sense of who those companions are. But yeah, if we had all those episodes, it would be fantastic. It was especially, especially for Troughton. You know, he's very expressive. I think it would be fantastic.

Garry: Agreed. Yeah. And talking of missing, we've actually found something or someone It's Matt. Matt's joined us. Yay. Here he is. Matthew immediately joined. Immediately frozen. I think he's on a delay. Bless him. Hello, Matt. He. He'll clock.

Maria: You're mute, Matt.

Garry: He'll clock. He's not. He's just. He's with us.

Harry: Either he can't hear us or he's not impressed by something.

Garry: This is like that. This is like that moment in. At the end of. I think it's Journey's End and stolen, you know, at the end where the Daleks have moved everything just by like 1 degree, 1% into, like a different thing. This is Matt right now he's here, but he's not here. That makes sense. Here he is. Listen. Now, just to fill you in.

Maria: Yeah, I was gonna say he's like Rose in the. Was it Subwave Network, where she couldn't be seen.

Garry: Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. So just listen. To fill you in. This is. This is pretty funny. So, Matt, message. And he was like, dudes, you know, can I still join? Is it too loud? No, no, if you're. If you're not busy, come in. He's just joined and we can see him. We can see his video. He's in the thing. He has the most brilliant. Someone's thrown him this very difficult maths question face on. It's like someone's told him to work out the square root of something and he's figuring out. You can see the cogs turning in his little brain. There he is. Hello, Matt, do we have Matthew?

Harry: He just shook his head.

Garry: He shook his head. He's looking miffed. Right, we'll let Matt work out the kinks in his. Does he know he's on the call? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's there. He's here he is. I'll even come in again. Can't hear us. He'll figure it out. He will. Right, so while we're waiting for Matt to join, which is really funny, what did we decide for series one? The Aztecs is a good one, I think we all agreed on, which is good. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to to the Rescue. So many of these stories I've not seen in a long time. So. Yeah, really liking the old rewatch, Garry.

Harry: I. I can't wait to hear your updated thoughts on the Romans because I absolutely love that story. I think it's one of the. One of the funniest Doctor Who stories. It's. It's. It's a right laugh.

Garry: It is good. Yeah. And I believe that's another Dennis Spooner script. There are two writers that I really like from the first few series of Doctor Who, from the old days, Dennis Spooner and David Whittaker. So David Whittaker has kind of assumed like the Dalek side of things after Terry Nation. So those two, I really like their, their script. So yeah, I think that's a pretty sure that's a Dennis Spooner story. Tell you what, I don't have to.

Harry: Wait until you've watched it. I can just watch your podcast, listen to your podcast episode because of the new compendium on the big Blue Box website.

Garry: Oh yeah, the compendium. Very good. Yeah, actually that's a good segue into keeping you guys informed about all the things actually before we dive into the war between. So the, as Harry said, we have a new website. It was, we put it on the socials. I would love for you to check it out. It's on the usual address. Bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk brand new everything. It looks really nice. We've got all the, a lot more visibility on all the stories and, and how to search for stories and we surface a lot more subjects and categories and stuff like that. These guys, all the writers have got swanky new author pages. You can go directly to their page and see all the, all the reviews and stories that they've, they've put out over the, the years and all that jazz. And as Harry mentioned, we've got a brand new reviews compendium page where people have asked for this for. God, it must be getting on years now where people get in touch all the time and say, have you got a list of all of the podcast episodes and what score you gave the TV story that it corresponds to and all that stuff. And I kept having to say, no, we don't, but now we do. So go and check out bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk, and while you're there, you can fire off the links to go to the various social media platforms and give us a like and a follow. We put loads of Doctor Who little tidbits and posts and all that stuff out throughout the week and throughout the month in between episodes. And we also have a really cool free Discord server. So these guys are in there quite a bit chatting Doctor Who with other Doctor Who fans in a Discord. So there's a link on the website for that. Go and check that out. And here he is. I think he's, I think he's all good now. It's Matt. He's here. Hello. No, you've muted yourself. Come on. Hello. Yeah.

Matt: I'm here at last. Better late than never.

Garry: Here he is. Oh, man. How you doing, buddy? Happy New Year. Can we say that still? Happy New Year.

Matt: Oh, yeah. Oh, Happy New Year to you all and everyone listening. Yeah, no, a few technical gremlins, some cyber maps in the system aside. Managed to get here eventually. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm doing well, thank you. I've been kind of into my 13th Doctor era again recently with the latest. Well, playing catch up on the Big Finish audios. So I listened to the first one, reviewed that one, you can find that on the website along with some thoughts from the team. And then I've just caught up on the second one, which the name has just completely gone out of my head, but I have just reviewed it and that will be up on the. On the website shortly. So, yeah, alongside that, also going through series 12 again and I'm currently onto the Timeless Children.

Garry: There he goes.

Matt: A bit of a sore subject for some people, but I've got to admit what I'm doing is I'm. I'm listening to it. Listening to it. I'm watching it whilst I'm doing some cardio at the gym and these little sort of half an hour segments. It's been a really cool way to. To watch it because you don't finish the story, you don't get the whole story in one. So it kind of leaves you. It's been so long since I watched it, it kind of leaves you wanting to watch some more the next time. So it's given me sort of a new appreciation. And, yeah, I was, for the first time ever, I was kind of. I was looking forward to see what happens in the Timeless Children.

Garry: So you've watched it as the. As the creators intended. So, yeah. On a cliffhanger, so to speak, if we get those these days and leaving you wanting more to go back to the next one. Cool. I like it.

Matt: Indeed. Yeah, it's been. It's been really fun.

Garry: Sounds good, man. And just very quick question for you before we. We've already let the listeners know that we're going to chat about the war between in a second, but the three of us have just been on a massive tangent about Series one, Hartnell's first series. If you can cast your mind back and remember the stories from that series, do you have a fave from there?

Matt: Yes. Is it Series one? I don't want to sound like a.

Garry: Noob here, but Fake fan, Fake fan moment coming up.

Matt: The Keys of Marinus.

Garry: Oh, dude.

Matt: Is that so on? Is that so on?

Garry: Yeah, you nailed it.

Matt: Yes.

Garry: Yes. Nice. Why the Kings of Marinus then?

Matt: I love it. I just think it's so ahead of its time. The ideas that they were doing there and the constant switching back and forth. It's been so long since I've watched it, but the constant switching back and forth between times and places and seeing how it all connects. God, it's been so long since I watched it. But yeah, I remember at the time thinking, God, this is miles ahead of where they were. Like, this is 1963 and it's stories and plot lines that you would see in modern day. Who. And I just thought, you know, the acting was. Was brilliant in it some and. Because I think it's. Is it a six parter?

Garry: It is, yep. Yeah.

Matt: I believe it gives everyone a bit more to do. Everyone gets their time to shine. I remember particularly liking Ian in it, aside from Susan screaming all the time. But that is series one. Who isn't there?

Garry: But Carol Anne Ford was actually really unhappy with her character in that story. She's gone on record saying that she thought this is harsh, but she. She described her character in that particular story as pathetic. She was not happy.

Maria: Yeah, she did scream quite a lot, to be fair. I mean, she. I think she was in the jungle, wasn't she? There was an episode set in the jungle and she was screaming and so frightened and. Yeah, I can understand it. It's probably frustrating for her.

Harry: I remember a bit where she got upset about not being able to paddle in a really shallow pool.

Garry: Do you remember that?

Harry: It was at the start of the story. I was. Yeah.

Garry: I think so. Yeah, I think I remember. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: It has been a year since I watched it.

Maria: But is that. Is that where she loses a shoe or something? Something. And they work out. It's an acid call.

Garry: So, yeah, that was it.

Maria: See, See those ideas? You don't really get all of that stuff like in Modern. Who do you. I mean, they were so imaginative in kind of. I think Matt's right. I think the Keys of Marinus is actually. I think there's only one episode which is the one that's set in the jungle. I think that's the only one I think that I don't like. But the rest of them, you know, for 22 minutes per episode or 25 minutes, they're actually really clever, I think, you know, and they do. They do bring in some interesting side characters as well, you know, and it's so different and I love the idea of being able to travel to different places on a planet because you. In Doctor Who, you find the Doctor normally only goes to one location on a planet and everything that happens in that location is representative of that whole planet. Whereas this. This is a bit more like, I'm going to Berlin, you're going to Paris, Harry's going to Sydney. And it's so different each episode. It's fantastic.

Harry: I love.

Maria: I love the ideas in it. I think Matt's. Matt's right. It's a brilliant story for the most part. And, you know, the restrictions they had in terms of filming it. I think they must have filmed it in Lime Grove, I think, but it's fantastic.

Matt: Thank you. Yeah. I think because of the chop and change in locations as well, the pacing had to be kept quite tight for each story as well. So it runs really smoothly is what I found when watching it for the first time. I think it was one of the first Hartnells I watched. And I remember thinking, you know, this is brilliant stuff because it's just as fast paced as some of the newest. Newer. I say newer. Some of the. Like the seventh Doctor, the sixth Doctor, where they've got the. The production values are much higher and they can, you know, sort their pacing out, to which often very early Doctor Who kind of sometimes falls flat on. Whereas this. Yeah, like, because of all of the different locations, the. And it just felt so nicely done, I put it. But then again, I haven't seen it in years, so that's actually kind of reminded me to go back and watch it. I think I'll do that later.

Garry: Prodded you into a. Into a rewatch. Very nice.

Matt: It doesn't take much to rewatch, Hartnell.

Garry: No, that's true. Very true. Alrighty, that's enough waffle about classic Doctor Who. Nobody watches it anyway, so it doesn't matter. I'm joking. Everyone's face is like, gary, you can't say that. You can't say that. Of course we watch it. Of course we watch classic Doctor Who. We're going to fast forward, though, to something a little bit more up to date, as it were. As I mentioned earlier in the December roundtable, we spoke about the first two episodes of the War Between. Now we're just going to give our very brief opinions and thoughts on these closing few episodes. So we finished up on episode two, which was Plastic Apocalypse, where at the end of that episode, Salt had demanded that the next round of negotiations was going to happen on their territory. So they wanted them to go into into the. Into the sea. So we pick up on episode three, which is called the Deep, where we see Barclay and the others are all training to go into. Into the deep sea, submersive and submersible, and go very deep down. And so they're training for all that stuff. They're going to be lower down to meet up with Salt and all that stuff. We weren't really sure how that was going to go in terms of story and visually how they were going to do that. Was it going to be like a Star Wars Episode 1, under. Under the sea with the Gungans and all that stuff? Was it going to be very CG heavy or was it going to be a bit more of a. More of a virtual thing? Ended up being a bit of both. Ish. And then stuff went down there. We went into episode four, the Witch of the Waterfall stuff really went down there. And then we went into episode five, the End of the War, where everything was wrapped up way more than what I expected it was going to be. There was. That was pretty much a nice. Sort of encapsulates this whole thing. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say we're not going to get the war between series 2 anytime soon. I think this is a one and done thing. So over to you guys. What did you think to the latter half of this series, this five episode miniseries and your thoughts on. Because it was interesting on those first two episodes, because we were mostly enjoying it mostly. We think we sort of came to the conclusion that in terms of writing and things like that, it was actually better than a lot of the stuff that we'd seen in Doctor Who in shoot his last series. But we did have some concerns about what was going to happen with or between Salt and Barclay and how this was going to go down and stuff. So whoever wants to jump in first, what are your thoughts on the latter half and the ending specifically? And did you enjoy it? Yes or no thoughts? Harry, Hit us up, dude. What did you think?

Harry: Oh, okay then. So I think the main thing that I was hoping for, I think we were all hoping for it really, was that the end, the latter half of the series would stick the landing. And I would say it did that for the most part. It kind of stuck the landing, but it was a bit wobbly when it reached the landing and it was in risk of falling over. So yeah, episodes three and four were really, really good. Biggest surprise of all is that the fishy romance which I was so apprehensive about, I actually didn't Mind, Like, I actually thought it was kind of sweet. I. Yeah, they sold me on it.

Garry: The.

Harry: The. So, yeah, Russell, Tovey, Goo Goo and Bathroom. They had great chemistry, their characters. It kind of made sense, even though she's a fish and he's a man. But, yeah, I don't know. Weirdly, it works for me. Yeah. That was a massive surprise. I also thought, spoiler alert. Although I guess we've all seen it by now.

Garry: Don't worry about spoilers. We're all good.

Harry: Yeah. Yeah. So Ibrahim getting killed off, that was a big swing. And it kind of made me think, oh, they only put Kate and Ibrahim together so that it would be more impactful when they got rid of him because he was a bit, you know, he was a side character. So I guess to give him more. Give his death more weight, they kind of did that. At least that's how I sort of read it. But I still thought it was a big swing nonetheless. And. Yeah. So the final episode. I like how the ending was kind of ambiguous in the sense that it's not a happy ending exactly. It's kind of. It's pretty obvious that it's condemning humanity and just. Just the carelessness of, you know, our waters and our wildlife and all the rest of it. I found that, genuinely, I found that very effective and I thought that was really clever and really brave and, yeah, that was another big swing on the production's part, but it was kind of stupid. The final episode. Why did he get gills? How did he get gills? I know that we joked about him living under the sea, but I didn't think they would actually do it. I still can't really wrap my head around that. And just. I don't know, just his characterization in the last episode, like the way he ran to the sea every night and screamed in the. In the sea and all of this. You'll never swim alone, you know, he's in love.

Garry: He's in love, mate. Love does strange things to you. It drives you mad sometimes.

Harry: Dramatic, wasn't it? I don't know, I just. It kind of got a bit silly towards the end, I think. And just when he's crying to his ex wife about being in love with a fish woman.

Garry: Well, she said that in the episode, didn't she? You went and fell in love with a fish and his face was like, oh, you didn't. You didn't just say that. You're kind of right. But, yeah, I didn't need to hear that. Yeah, interesting you say that. There was a couple of swings Big swings in this one. That's something I did appreciate actually, because it provided a little bit of spice to what could have ultimately been a fairly bland. I miss Salt. I'm trying to find her. Oh, there she is. Happily ever after. So having those little twists and stuff provided a bit of some sort of emotional anchors, I guess, especially with. With Kate. Losing Mr. Side character. Losing him. That was well done. You know, that whole assassination attempt and it turned out him being killed and stuff was pretty well done and. And that sort of thing. And the other cool. The other cool twist was turning around. So Salt was viewed as like the traitor. By the. By the. We can't say sea devils, can we? By the homo Aqua. And she's on the run and then she turns up and. And presumably they're kind of still going to be on the run a little bit on they. Because I think the story ended with they were going to just be condemned to like the waterways and. And whatnot. In a certain part of the ocean. They sort of admitted defeat almost. And after the. The sort of pseudo chemical warfare thing went down and. And that kind of thing. So a bit of a tragic ending in a way, but also kind of sweet with those two. If you take away the silliness of it, like you said, and some of that stuff, it's turned out to be just a good old fashioned love story wrapped up in some sort of current political stuff.

Harry: Yeah, quite. I think that's what I mean by like it. It stuck the landing even though it wobbled because it is. It is quite silly. It was quite a silly ending, but also it, it was, it was quite sweet, like you say. And that final bit, like in, in the water, like you just think, oh yeah, like the. The world may be, you know, going to bleep, but, you know, they're going to have a happy life together. So that's kind of like.

Garry: Yeah, yeah.

Harry: A little bit of an optimistic note, which is. Which is quite good.

Garry: So if you have to score it out of 10, what would you give it as a series?

Harry: I think I'd probably give it a solid seven. A solid seven out of ten.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah, gotcha.

Harry: It's pretty good.

Garry: I like that. Yep. World's going to shit, but they're still loving the air. I like it. I like it. Right, Maria, I'm fascinated by your. She's cracking up already. Right, here we go. Strapping Maria, give us your thoughts please, on the latter half of the war between.

Maria: Dear, oh dear. Dear, oh dear. Okay, so we started out really promisingly with the first two episodes, which I did actually enjoy. I disagree with Harry about the story, actually. Was it sticking the landing? I think that's what you said, Harry. I think the problem with the story was it didn't seem to know what it wanted to be. Was it gonna be a political thriller? You know, you had all these government bodies and military people that were kind of against Aqua Kind. Was it going to be a love story? Was it going to be an environmental story? Was it going to be alien invasion story? I don't think it kind of really knew what it wanted to be. There were bits that I've been. I enjoyed a bit, you know, it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it, but I don't think it actually really came together. So the things I liked, I'll concentrate on those and then I'll go to the things I don't like. So the things I liked, I thought the performances of the two leads, Google and Russell, you know, they. They gave their characters conviction, I suppose, and they. I don't know if they had chemistry together. I think it was very flirty, flirty between them. And still the idea of kind of a fish and a human is a bit weird for me. But it was, as Harry said it was. It was done in quite a sweet way in terms of their relationship. So I thought they were actually good performances from them. Conversely, the relationship between Kate and Ibrahim, or Colonel Sexy, as we'll call him. Yeah, sorry, no, absolutely not invested in that at all. It was kind of. It was kind of in there. It was in the story, but there was no development of it. It was kind of. There was nothing from the main series that we'd seen to kind of build, build up, build up any kind of affection for those characters being together. It kind of felt very weird. It was very quick, you know, it was kind of like you saw these domestic scenes and then he died and, you know, and I. I must admit, I think Gemma Redgrave, you know, she. She gave a lot in the performance where she was grieving, you know, and, you know, grief kind of affects people in different ways. And I get that. You know, she did have trauma around it and I kind of felt for her in those scenes. But the scenes of them being together, no, I didn't. Didn't believe it at all. Didn't kind of invest in it at all. One of the other things I liked was the scenes in the sub 3. I think my idea of kind of being in a very small, confined space like that, under the water is like my Worst nightmare. So when they were going down into the. Into the depths of the ocean, that I did actually feel physically sick, kind of thinking about it. It did actually make me feel quite nauseous. Don't ever get me. Don't ever get me in a sub, because I think I will be hysterical. But, yeah, so, you know, I liked that. But again, you've got. You've got these characters that kind of. You're meant to invest in. So you've got the guy with the globe, the South African guy, you've got the young Unit. That was that woman that was from. I think she was from Unit, and she died. So there's all these side characters, you know, and obviously the globe has got the bomb and the bomb explodes and they all die. But I don't know, I didn't feel anything about them. You know, there was no developers development with them, really. You know, we didn't really. They weren't really expanded on before we'd actually got to know and care about them, you know, whether they died and, you know, it's those kind of things. And then there was characters like Tide, who I really liked, but. And that was played by Samuel Oakley, who also was in Jodie's series. In Doctor Who, he played Tim Shaw and he was actually really good, but it was like literally only there for probably about two minutes in the story. And he was actually an interesting character because, you know, you want to feel that Aqua Kind actually are a threat. And I think the first episode where we had all that mystery and you had the disappearing sea devil. Sorry, I can't remember what they're meant to be called. I'll call it a sea devil, you know, that was taken back my memory. Shocking. And, you know, those kind of scenes that really set up a mystery and kind of gave a bit of threat to the sea devils that kind of disappeared, you know, in the story. I mean, all we had was loads of Georgia, you know, loads of talking, you know, and it's meant to be the war between the land and the sea. But, you know, aside from that invasion of plastic that came at the end of Ephraim episode two, you know, what actually happened? There was no. There was no real war between them. It was kind of very much talking. And, you know, we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. So, yeah, I didn't. I didn't really feel that was expanded on. And when we went down to the. The world of Aqua Kind, I actually loved the look of that. I really wanted to know more about Aqua Kind. I wanted to see more of that world, but again, it just got blown up. And then Barclay somehow survives because Salt saves him again. How did he survive when everyone else died? I don't get that. So I'm just trying to think so. Yeah, so there's things like that, you know, I don't think this whole story knew what it wanted to be. I mean, I enjoyed it, but it's not something that I've kind of felt I want to go back and rewatch again, you know, and you've, and you've got things, obviously, where Barclay abandoned his family at the end of the story, you know, that doesn't feel realistic to me. He's got a daughter and he's abandoning her for a fish woman. You know, Again, I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, you know, Again, I suppose it's not meant to be realistic and, you know, it's a. It's got a bit of a fairy tale kind of ending to it. I mean, it was really interesting. There was an interview, I think, I think we've spoken about some of the interviews that the two leads did, and I think Russell, Toby was asked what was the story about? And he said, oh, it's kind of like west side Story, which is kind of based on Romeo and Juliet. So, you know, they're obviously, they're obviously going for a love story angle. But then none of the other elements were developed, you know, around the environmental issues, because I thought it was going to be, you know, a clash between sea devils and humans, but it wasn't, it wasn't really developed enough for me, I think. And the title of episode four, the Witch of the Waterfall, that didn't come to anything either. What did that mean? It didn't mean anything. What does it mean? She's the Witch of the Waterfall. What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything. So, yeah, there was all these little things that kind of didn't leave me completely, completely satisfied. I mean, I enjoyed it for what it was, you know, it's, it's, it's. I suppose I can't, I can't put it in the. I can't put it in the category of a political thriller because it's not that I can't really put it as an environmental story. I guess it's a love story. And if you accept it on that, on those terms, then it was fine for what it was, you know, I'll, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Garry: Okie dokie. What would you give it out of 10.

Maria: Oh God. Well, given that I don't, I don't really want to go and watch it again and I think with Children of Earth, which are. Okay, we've compared it to that because that was a five part story. I wanted to go and re watch that and I've probably watched it three times and cried my eyes out. So I think, I don't know, five out of 10 or maybe that's being a bit unfair. Okay, six out of 10.

Garry: Six.

Maria: I'll give it a six out of 10. Yeah.

Garry: Okay. Well, I thought you'd gonna, I thought you were going to go lower, so that's not too bad.

Maria: I could, I could. No, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna be mean about it, but I, I don't think it's. It didn't have any impact on me really, if I'm honest. It was good for what it was. I'll take it as a love story, a fishy love story. Even though. Yeah, okay, yeah, let's move on. Five out. I'll go back to five out of ten.

Garry: A middle of the road five out of ten. Fair enough, Fair enough. Safe to say that you won't be ordering the Blu ray.

Maria: Absolutely not. I think it's 25 quid and I'm not paying 25 quid for that.

Garry: Guys, we know what to get Maria for 45 quid.

Harry: Maria.

Maria: Only if you buy it for me. Harry.

Garry: Just about to say we know what to get Maria for your birthday.

Maria: Yeah.

Harry: Yeah, come back to me on that.

Garry: Yeah. Alrighty. So I think a solid 7 from Hara, a 5 from Maria. All that's left is Matt with his. Look at his big wise head on him. Wise beyond his years. I know he's going to come with some wisdom now. Give us your thoughts, buddy. Come on.

Matt: Yeah, I think, I think you might be leading viewers into a false sense of security there, but. Or listeners, I should say. But no, you know what? The last, the last two episodes I don't think were as phenomenal phenomenal as the first three. I thought the third episode was another masterpiece. But yeah, I think, I think the, especially with the, the under, under the sea sort of espionage that was going on, I, you could kind of see as soon as they decided to bring along a special gift, they just so happened to not be able to be seen or touched by anybody else. You knew that was going to be something bad. You knew that was happening from the moment you saw it. But the going down in the submarine, is it, is it a Sub. It didn't look very sub.

Garry: Like it's just a submersible. Is that submersible? Submersible. Whichever way that is. It's like a sub, but okay. Not as big.

Matt: Yeah. I was right there with Maria and feeling the, the anxiety and the claustrophobic sort of feels that you get with watching that. That was absolutely brilliantly directed and the music that went with it just, it just heightened everything. You really sort of felt in, in the sub with them at that point. And then, you know, Barkley showing, you know, how well he can ground the whole team when they're losing control. It was. Yeah, I think episode three on the whole was, was brilliant. Especially was it episode three where Colonel Ibrahim gets shot as well. I believe that's the cliffhanger part of the cliffhanger as well. Yeah, I thought that was, that was brilliantly executed. The, the love story between Kate and Ibrahim. I, I was quite invested, actually. I think I was one of the, one of the only few that were. But I really like Kate Stewart as a, as a member of the Doctor Who universe and I've always thought she was great. I know a lot of people disagree, but, you know, I, I've always been invested in her story and to see her finally get a, get a fella or, you know, have a relationship and be, you know, be happy.

Garry: I don't know. She seemed like hard work, mate. She seemed like hard work. Well, I felt for him a little bit. I did feel for him a little bit because you could see that he was so desperate to get some love back. Felt like a bit of a one way street, you know. I know she's.

Harry: The same time though, Ibrahim was being whiny as hell.

Garry: Like, Kate is literally dealing with like.

Harry: A worldwide crisis here and he's just like, oh, why don't you spend more time with me?

Garry: Well, no, I don't. I, I see it deeper than that. I saw it as deeper than that because the whole reason why he was like that is because she was showing signs of. Because he had. There was a scene where they were just sat on the bench in the corridor in the unit head office. And he was like, look, I've seen this so many times where people have just burnt out and they're useless to everybody because they're just so. He's like, look, I can see you going down this path. So before you get to that point, you need to take a step back and chill out a little bit. And a good way of chilling out is with me because, you know, all that Stuff. So, yes, he was a little bit whiny, I thought, a little bit like, hello, I'm here too. You know, the world's going to beep again, but you got a boyfriend now, you know, and all that. But at the same time, I think he had a. It came from a genuine, loving place that, you know, he wanted to spend time with her more so. So that she didn't crash and burn and be useless to the world. But anyway. Sorry, Matt.

Matt: Yeah, no, no, not at all. But, yeah, no, I, I don't think that the. When, when he was shot and unfortunately died, I don't think it had the impact that it was supposed to make me feel sorry for him as much as it made me feel sorry for Kate, because Colonel Ibrahim is, has been shoehorned in since. Is, is it the 14th doctor. So it was obvious that he was kind of put in for a reason at some point, and we knew that this was coming up. There was obviously, you know, an end in sight for him and you don't really get to know him all that well until the couple of episodes that we see him before he gets shot and dies. In Doctor Who, there's no real sort of character progression for him other than, yes, I'm a soldier, I shall do what is asked of, and that sort of thing.

Maria: But he's not a Mike Yates. He's not a Mike Yates or a Sergeant Benton, really. I mean, there's not, there's no, there's no development in terms of who he is, really. And that's the shame of it, really, because, you know, you could grow to like them as a couple if you, if there was a little bit more kind of put in the stories before, you know, in Doctor Who.

Garry: I miss old Yates, you know. You know, when he went off grid for a little while from UNIT and infiltrated the, the, what's the Planet of the Spiders. You know, when he infiltrates the, You know, all that stuff and then he gets, yeah, he's, he's in there. He's like this kind of James Bondi Special Agent. That's. I miss old Yatesy. Yeah, sorry, Matt, crack on.

Matt: No, no, not at all. Yeah, but, but it had the opposite effect on me and I thought, I can't get that out of my head. Now I'm expecting a giant spider to.

Garry: Sort of behind me. Sorry, sorry. I love that story. Spiders aside. Yeah. You weren't too invested when he, when.

Matt: He not bit the dust. I was more. I, I, I, it did get me, but more feeling sorry for Kate. I Think the way that Gemma Redgrave acted that and, and the subsequent grief and anger that she had was brilliant. I think she's just a terrific actor and she finally got the chance to show off what she can do. Instead of. When you're in Doctor Who as a very strong, what should be a lead, but you're sidelined because the Doctor's in the room, it kind of limits your potential. But this, I think was brilliant to see just how fine of an actor she is and, and just, you know, why, why I love Kate so much. I think, I think the character's great.

Garry: True. What did you think? Actually, just while you're on the subject of Kate, just very, very quickly, we had that little post credit scene at the end, didn't we, where somebody's very naughtily tossed a bit of, a bit of litter down a plastic bottle and she snaps like she can tell that all of the events that have just, just happened has really affected us. Did you, did you feel for her at that? Because I did. When I saw that, I was like, yeah, this has taken its toll on her mentally and now she's, she's not in a good place. You can see that.

Matt: Definitely. Yeah, I know it caused quite a bit of stir online and people think it was just, you know, telling the audience and, and all that sort of thing like orphan 55, but it wasn't, it wasn't at all. I was completely, I see where they were going with it. She's just watched all of this unfold. She's dealt with the devastation that this is like an entire population all but has been decimated because of what we as humans are prepared to do if anybody, you know, even, even threatens to share the planet with us or encroach on our, on our patch. You know, it's, it was, it was a lot. And you can't help feel for Aqua.

Harry: Kind.

Matt: But seeing, you know, the, the blatant disregard straight away from the human race, you. Yeah, I, I pull out a gun as well. If I, if, if I so had one and I was the Commander in Chief, I'd do the exact same thing. You know, I thought, no, that was, that was very well done. She's been through a lot. She's seen a lot. She's completely within her rights to have that sort of reaction.

Garry: Yeah, pick that bottle up now.

Maria: I think, I think it was a bit weird though, to put it in the post credit, post credits. I mean, I mean, if Russell T. Davis hasn't said, oh, please keep watching after the credits, I Mean nobody would have kind of, you know, people could have just turned over and missed the whole thing.

Garry: No way. No way. We've got Marvel to bloody blame for that. Every beeping film and everything that you ever see, now everybody watches the post credit scene thanks to flipping Marvel. But actually no, I think some people would have done for that reason. But you're right. Sorry. Yeah, you are right. I think a lot of people wouldn't have hung around after they saw old. It's a bit like in Harry Potter, you know, when he takes the gilly weed and he's got the gills and he's diving into the black lake and stuff like that reminded me of that. It was like, okay, is this a temporary thing or. Actually no, he's gone to live under the sea. Maybe because they can come out of water, can survive out of water, can't they? So maybe this whole thing around, he's abandoned his family. He's kind of. Yeah. On the surface at least. Excuse the pun. It's not great from that point of view. But there's nothing to say that you can't just come back. He's like, says to Salt like, I'll be back tomorrow. I'm on land for the weekend, spending a weekend with my daughter. I'll see you tomorrow. If you want to come, come. It's all good. Yeah, we're going to Hollywood bowl and then we're going to Nando's or Blackpool.

Matt: For some fish and chips.

Garry: Yeah. If you want to come, fine, but if not, I'll see you.

Harry: Going to the aquarium.

Garry: Where do you want to go this weekend, darling? I've always wanted to go to the aquarium. You're kidding, right? Fine.

Maria: Oh. Oh, you guys are making me crack up. I mean, you know, it's just so funny, isn't it? I mean I, I thought all of the Aqua kind had to go to that.

Garry: They did. Yeah. The Mariana Trench, wherever they went.

Maria: Yeah, the Mariana Trench. So are we saying that they didn't go there and they were swimming the seas and living a happy life in the water?

Garry: Do you know what? I think they. This come becoming a bit of a trend at the moment with if any, any anyone listening or. You guys have seen Stranger Things the last season. They left that very ambiguous at the end as well. It's like did, did 11 survive? Is Mike's theory correct and she's still out there somewhere? That sort of thing. They, they've done this thing where it's like you. It's almost like the viewer makes up their own mind. About that stuff because the agreement was after the bad people outside of Kate Stewart's knowledge and all that stuff had basically poisoned the ocean and killed off the majority of Aqua Kind. They had accepted defeat and they had said, right, okay, we'll now go into this little pocket of the ocean known as the Mariana Trench. We'll stay there. But then with Salt and Barclay swimming off together with the gills and the flips in the sea and stuff, they look happy as Larry. So are they then like you said, do they? Because I. One would assume that because you remember the dude that came out after Salt had buggered off. What was his name? Commander someone. What was the guy's name, the other Aqua Kind dude who took over negotiations after Salt had done a runner. That guy.

Maria: Oh, tied.

Garry: Tied, yeah. Tied, yeah. So he had basically declared something assault as a traitor. And she had said to Barclay, if they ever. If she ever goes back or if they find her, you know, she's basically going to be. It's not good news for her. So at that point, at the very end where Barclay and her go off in the sea, are those two now just on the run? Are they like you said, swimming around having their own little. Their own little fishies, own little little bubbas, their own little family. What's going on? I don't know. Or do they have to go back? It's with. To join all the other Aqua Kind in the Mariana Trench? I don't know. It's kind of an ambiguous. Like you make your own mind up about what they. What they end up doing. Who knows?

Harry: Did you have any more thoughts in the Christmas special?

Garry: The Christmas special? Yeah. Who knows?

Harry: Returning Doctors, we want Salt and Barkley to come back.

Garry: Yeah. And show us their fish babies. The Billy Piper's doctor, her TARDIS has got a little fish bowl on the side with a couple of little fish. One of them is called Salt one. Okay, Matt, did you have any more thoughts on this? And if not.

Maria: Also.

Garry: It's fine, but what school? Just.

Matt: Just a couple, I think. Episode six, Barclay was episode six.

Garry: There's only five. What's going on?

Matt: Episode five, episode.

Harry: It's like Stranger Things. There's a whole extra.

Matt: Yeah.

Harry: Secret episode.

Matt: It's the conformity C. That special episode. But in episode, episode five, Barclay, Russell, Toby was just completely sidelined into this soppy bugger that like Harry was saying that he's supposed to be this everyman that is certainly the most important man in the world and he's got all of these stakes that around him and instead he's just, I don't know, a bit of a wet lettuce, just kind of.

Garry: He's in love. I keep saying it. He's in love. That's what love does to you sometimes. It just turns you into a nutter for no rational reason. And then you look back on it in a few years time and you're like, wow, I was a complete beep at that point, wasn't? I have grown up now, but back in the day when I was, you know, love does strange things. It's this, that's what makes the world go around.

Maria: Does anyone know what the ratings were for the series?

Garry: I've got them here. So the, the total million. So this is like the overnights plus all the consolidating and stuff. It ranged from 4 and a half mil for episode one, then 3 and a half, then went up again to nearly 4, then went downhill from there. So 3.2 mil for episode four and then just over 3 million for episode five. Now you might be thinking, you know, that's not great. However, in today's viewing habits and today's viewing, the landscape of television, that is not terrible for a show that was on, for a show that's considered a spin off. And spin offs always, they never ever get the same amount of viewers as the main show. I think I could be wrong. So listener, please get in touch if you know the right answer to this or something. But I'm pretty sure I think it's done better.

Maria: It's done better than Doctor Who.

Garry: Well, I was gonna say, I think episodes one and two, I think have got higher viewing numbers than the average viewer number for Doctor Who across season Shooter, season two. I think I could be wrong.

Harry: None of those episodes surpassed 4 million.

Garry: So.

Harry: Yeah, I think that's probably right.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't done terribly. And you know these other websites that sort of, they bring all the scores together like Rotten Tomatoes and all that stuff. It's currently sitting at 85% which again is not, is not terrible at all by any means. So yeah, it's. Oh, sorry, Matt. What was your score, by the way?

Matt: My score, I probably would have. I, I'll give it a. I want to give a 0.5. I'm gonna go an 8. An 8 out of 10.

Garry: An 8. Yeah, nice.

Matt: I was, I, I left it feeling like re. Really pleased. There was obviously a few niggly bits. The, the big thing about the rust went absolutely nowhere. It was so cool to see. And then it went absolutely nowhere. Having leaving the family at the end. Yeah, I did. I didn't agree with that, but we have kind of covered that. Maybe he's just coming back for fish and chips at a different date. And I think the ending was slightly rushed with the whole sort of just, okay, we. We surrender. You know, we. The virus was very, very quickly.

Garry: Severance deployed. Yep.

Matt: Yeah. And. And then just everything came to a halt and it was kind of just aftermath after that. But I think the actual. The actual conclusion was very, very quick, which unfortunately is. Is a bit of a recurring theme with rtd, isn't it? So, you know, as expected. But on the whole, I finished episode five, not episode six, thinking, you know, this was so much stronger than the last two and a bit seasons of who that I just left with a smile on my face.

Garry: Yes, same. If I had to score this as well, I'd probably give this a seven. I'd give it a solid seven. So we've got some interesting scale there in scores. We've got Maria, middle of the road with a five. We've got sevens, and then we've got an eight from Harry. So interesting. So not too bad. Last thing I just want to touch on, so I'm a.

Maria: No, no, it's fine. It's okay. You carry on.

Garry: I just wanted to say I thought the soundtrack by Lorne Balth was very, very nice. Really cool soundtrack. That it's. It's. If he got the memo is the best way to describe it. Just the. The way that it supported the story and some of the themes. I kind of wish that Murray did more of this stuff when he came back for Doctor Who, because talking to somebody the other day about Murray Gold, actually, and I was saying that the. His first run on Doctor Who was so memorable. I can remember so many tracks from across all of, like series one with Eccleston through to when he left. I can remember so. So many tracks of his, but from his second run, I think I can only remember like two. I remember Shoot. His theme, you know, intergalactic song. Is that right? Interstellar. Sorry, Interstellar song contest. There was a bit where he's outside in space and he uses something to like propel himself back towards the. And that music there, that kind of bombastic sort of, you know, it was almost akin to Matt Smith's I Am the Doctor. You know, they've sort of regurgitated that whenever sort of action kicked off. I remember that and I remember the closing music, which was beautiful for his regeneration scene. I remember that. I cannot remember a single other bit of music. From. From those tire that entire run when Murray came back. But Lorne Balfe's music for this just suited it perfectly. Did a fantastic job. I've got it on a. On the old Apple music. I've listened to it a few times while I've been working. It's just a really, really nice. Really nice soundtrack that Garry.

Harry: How could you forget? There's always a choice.

Garry: When we went to.

Maria: I like the kind of drunk way that Harry kind of does it.

Garry: He's had a few. Harry's that bored on the podcast. Yeah, he's got whiskey. Me and Matt Smith.

Harry: Clip of Matt Smith that you used to have in the intro for the podcast way back when. Just remember who's standing in your.

Garry: Oh, dude. I can just imagine as well like a drunken version of. Of that speech as well. Because he does. It's weird, isn't it? Because he doesn't. It doesn't do that at all in terms of like. But it does come across like he has had a few beers, doesn't it? Even though he's not meant to be straight down the line with it. Completely serious. It's a serious moment. But you're right, it does sound like he's had a couple of beers. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say me and. Me and my wife, Mrs. Big Blue Box. We went to the proms last year. Was it last year or the year before? And oh man, when. When we thought it was done like at the very end concert done, ready to get up and go. They busted that out. There's always a twist. And the whole place was filled up with all the same extras that were in the show and they were dancing and it was going off and you should have seen everyone's face. It was so funny because in the run up to that, everyone got emotional when they heard their favorite doctor's theme or their companions theme and all these lovely bits of music from Murray Gold over the years and all this stuff. And then at the end when that just hit you in the face like a frying pan, everyone's face was like, this is good, isn't it?

Harry: I must admit I was on the iplayer, so probably. It probably didn't have the same impact, but it was a bit whiplash, dude.

Garry: Yeah. Just came out of nowhere. Like nobody expected them to bust that one out. And it just. It was really loud and all of a sudden as well and everyone. Yeah. And everyone was kind of awkwardly sort of clapping, but not clapping and didn't know where to look. And it was. It was very funny. But anyway, music aside, I really hope if Murray's back because potentially the Christmas special this year is Russell's last, potentially. So whoever's going to be showrunner after that and there's been some names knocking around whoever it takes over. If that is the case, if Russell does leave, is Murray sticking around? Are we getting a new composer? I mean, potentially exciting times.

Harry: Didn't Murray say that he was leaving with Shooty? I feel like I remember hearing someone.

Garry: I don't know, just gonna do possibly.

Harry: 15Th doctor and that was it.

Matt: In which case it was in Doctor Who magazine.

Garry: Do you know what? That does make sense because when he was on Doctor Who the first time around, I remember seeing a tweet from him. Somebody tweeted him and said, oh, you know, another composer I think, and said, how's things? And he was replied with like. He just replied with something like knackered, overworked, stressed, all that stuff. So that was when. I'm pretty sure that was like series 10, series 9 or 10 or something like that. So I think it's a big old. The moral of the tale with Doctor Who is that it's a frickin hard slog of a job regardless of what you're doing on the show. It's a frickin hard hard job and stressful. So it wouldn't surprise me if he did see two series and then has called it another day.

Harry: But yeah, maybe like shooties, you know.

Maria: I mean, to be, to be fair to the guy, he has, he has produced lots of really memorable stuff. I mean it's impossible for somebody to keep churning that out continuously. And yeah, I, I wouldn't be surprised either if he's, if he's gone as well because I don't remember anything from. Anything from RTV2 that he's done really. Except all the. Obviously the obvious ones. Yeah, I can't think of anything strange.

Garry: Isn't it like over. Over 10 series worth of soundtracks. I can remember like 80% of his music from each soundtrack. I know that the, the, the subject of time again, excuse the pun is prevalent here because I've been listening to those for years. So I get that. However, these two seasons have just gone. Should be fairly fresh in my mind. But I can't, I can't place any, any music other than the ones I mentioned.

Matt: So I would say Ruby's theme. Ruby's theme on the piano in the Devil's Chord when she plays it acoustically. I think that's beautiful.

Garry: Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah.

Harry: Did Belinda have A theme. I don't think she did.

Garry: Yeah, it was Stay at Home, Mum.

Harry: At the very last minute. Yeah.

Garry: That'S. Sorry.

Matt: Off guard, that one.

Garry: That was cutting that. Sorry, sorry, Belinda. Apologies. There's always a twist.

Harry: Yeah, yeah, that was the twist at the end.

Garry: Yeah. Quick question, guys. Very quick one. Is the upcoming Christmas special this year, is that the last ever thing in conjunction with Disney or is that already cut off and done now? I can't remember this.

Matt: I think it's. Yeah, yeah. This is just the BBC.

Garry: This is just the bean. Bad Wolf. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: I think there's talks of Bad Wolf disappearing off it as well, isn't there?

Garry: Dudes, we're gonna cut this short. I can see us going off on a massive tangent. This is a conversation for the next month's Roundtable. We'll stick a pin in this subject because it's fascinating. I think we'll. We'll have a good old chat about the future of Doctor Who, as in, like, immediate future, the Christmas special, and what's going to happen with showrunners and composers and studios and all that stuff, I think, because otherwise, listeners, you know what we're like, we will go on for. For hours. And you've probably got things to do, you've probably got tea to make, cars to wash, commutes to get cracking on with all that stuff. Daleks to build, eh, Maybe is getting cold.

Maria: And we've got. And we've got work to do. Something like that. Anyway.

Garry: Nice one, Maria. That was perfect. I love that. Oh, I. I can't do another emotional hit today. I've already had Hartnell hit me in the ribs earlier today. I can't do another. Another one. Okay, Right, let's stick a pin in it there, folks. That was the January Roundtable to kick off 2026 it. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for coming back and listening to our first episode of the new year. It was great to have you here as we waffled on about various things. We've covered a lot today, believe it or not. Classic who, the War Between. Murray Gold, future stuff. All the things. It's been really cool. So, Maria, thank you very much as always for hopping on the round table.

Maria: Oh, thank you, Garry. It's been Brilliant, Harry. Happy 2026, everyone.

Garry: Indeedy Happy 2026, Harry. Thank you very much, dude. Thank you so much, Garry.

Harry: Really appreciate it. And now I'm off to bed because I'm knackered.

Garry: He's not off to bed, he's off to get a cup of tea, grab a book. He's not going to bed for hours.

Harry: Ah, yeah, I'll probably read Dracula. Yeah, that's more likely.

Garry: Matt, thank you very much for joining us for the Round Table. Dude. Nice to see you.

Matt: Thank you for having me. At least everyone else turned up on time. I'll try and do better next time.

Garry: We'd like to say that you were busy building your model Dalek, but I don't think that was the case. But yeah, thank you. None.

Matt: You never know. But yes, I'll. I'll go and get the keys of Marinus on now with a nice cup of tea, I think.

Garry: Very good. So that was the January Roundtable. Thank you very much. As always, make sure you're following us on your preferred podcast app of choice. Make sure you give us a subscribe or whatever the button says on your app. That way you won't miss any episodes. Go and check out all the stuff from this lot over on the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk. and you can link off to all of the other social stuff and follow us and do all the things. Until next time. My name's Garry.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Maria: My name's Maria.

Matt: And my name is Matt.

Garry: And remember, remember.