July 2026 Roundtable: The 2026 Hiatus News Catch-Up

Garry: Hey, hey, hey. Who fans, welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry.

Matt: My name's Matt.

Maria: I'm Maria.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Garry: And welcome to the July roundtable bazingra.

Harry: Hey,.

Garry: Welcome back. Who fans, thank you very much for hopping on to another episode of the Big Blue Box. It's the monthly roundtable. As always, it's been a minute. To be honest with you, we've not, we've not had the opportunity to get together and record for a little while stuff going on and all that stuff and we've missed some, some big news to talk about. But fear not, we will go through all of that stuff on this month's episode. So thank you very much. As I said, it's great to have you joining and listening to us waffle about Doctor who and all the things. As usual. I'm joined by Maria, Matt and Harry. We'll get onto those guys in a second. But as I said, it has been a minute. We've been busy. We were, we were at a convention a couple of months ago and we were doing all that stuff. We were in person as a team taking over the, the capital event down in, down in lovely sunny Crawley. Was it sunny? It was for the most part. If I, if I remember, two months, seems like a long time ago now, but that was a really cool event. We'll go through that as well, give you a recap on that. I think these guys are off to a couple more events and whatnot over the next few months as well, so I'll let you, let those guys fill you in on that. But yes, it is so good to be back recording and talking all things Doctor who because Adam and I haven't done an episode, one of the, one of the quote unquote normal ones in bloody ages. So thank God that we are all podcasting about other things. Myself and Adam, we have our Blake 7 podcast that's just wrapped up its second season over a federation strike and we're going to start recording a brand, brand new podcast in a few weeks. Time for something else. I mean the final, well say final. I'm in the throes of editing out a podcast that Maria and Jordan have embarked upon. You've heard me mention a few times the, their reviews of Sapphire and Steel. Very cool old British sci fi show that they're going to get into. Matt and I are recording hopefully next week to give you some stuff about a certain TV movie that landed recently. So it's weird, we've, we've had a bit of A break for a little while and now all of a sudden, Bosh, it's all, it's all coming together. So let's get these guys mics unmuted. Maria, welcome to the July Roundtable. You doing all. You're good? Have you done anything Doctor who related recently?

Maria: I did go to a event at the studios that was I think a couple of weeks back. The duas, these Dewass events are becoming very popular now so you know, tickets tend to, tend to kind of sell out really quickly. But this was a showcase of some black and white episode. They were, they were based around the Cybermen. So there was three episodes that they showed. There was, I think it was episode three of the Kent Planet. There was also, I think episode six or it might be an episode eight of the Invasion. And there was also. Oh my gosh, what was the other one? It will come to me in a minute. It's gone out of my head. But that was a really, that was a really nice event to go to. Wendy Padbury was there and there were some other guests as well. So that was a night afternoon and these events tend to be structured around watching the episode. Then there's a Q and A, there's opportunities for photographs with all the guests and autographs. So it's quite a full day. But yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was. And you know, the Riverside Studio is a lovely kind of place to kind of have an event like that. They did have, they did have some, some of the Cybermen there on display. So you had all the different stages of the black and white Cybermen there and you were able to take photographs of them as well. So yeah, that was, that was a good event. My, my co writer Jordan was there as well so we had a lot of fun with that.

Garry: Oh, sounds awesome. Yeah, they are getting some way more popular now, aren't they? Those DWAS events, they seem to be to ramping up a bit. And the, the Riverside ones as well. Fair play to those guys. They just keep, keep plugging away. It's like those two are like the staples now for London, aren't they? You've got Riverside, you've got the BFI events and regardless of what's going on with the current show or whatever's going on with that, those guys just keep plugging away at these events for, for who fans. So it's really good, really cool.

Maria: I mean what I'd love really is, you know, the west are very kind of classic, all orientated so, you know, there's always, you know, there's always kind of themes around what they do with these, what they do around these events, these projection in time events. So they, they tend to also find guests that you wouldn't normally maybe think of, um, you know, having a, having a contribution or having something to say. So, know, it could be behind the scene, could be guest actors that were part of that serial, you know, and they tend, they tend to kind of, they tend to be really good at those. It's not, it's not, you know, your usual guests that you would get at conventions. They, they find these guests and they've all, they've all got fascinating stories because it's a, it's like a little slice of time when you're listening to them about what they dig in there, you know, that, that particular time and this was obviously centered around the 60s, the 1960s. So, you know, it's always fascinating to kind of know, you know, the different kind of visual techniques that maybe they were using at that time or, you know, how costumes were made or how, how the production was produced. You know, it's always fascinating to me to kind of find out those details, you know, because it, it's something that you won't see these days. You know, production has changed so much, isn't it? So it's always fascinating. And obviously if you get a few original props as well, you know, it's, it's, it's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Garry: It's great stuff. Good. And it's cool that you get out to those things. You like the, the usual roving. You like the April o'? Neal?

Maria: Well, I wish, I wish I could say it was an easy journey to get down there because they're doing engineering works on the line which takes you into Hammersmith. Normally I had to go a kind of different route, so it took me about an hour and a half to get there in the morning and two hours to get home. And you know, considering I. This is in West London and I live in North London, that was, that was quite a journey that day.

Garry: Yep. Fans, if listener, if you're not aware of the geography of London, doesn't sound very far north West London, but when you have to use public transport, sometimes it can be a bit. Yeah. A bit of a challenge. But yeah, nice ombre. Sounds cool. Harry, how the bloody hell have you been, mate?

Maria: Hello.

Harry: I've been really good, Gary. Yeah, quite tired really. I've been on a lot of adventures lately because.

Garry: Here we go.

Harry: Fredo Baggins. Yeah, yeah, I, I went to not one, not two, not Three, but four Doctor who related events, which is. Sounds like a lot, but obviously we've not recorded in a couple of months. So, you know, but, but yeah, we had capital and then we had the TV movie at the bfi which was a wonderful day. And then I got tickets. You couldn't make this up. I got tickets from a friend of a friend who knew that I liked Doctor who that was going to go to a convention in Newark, the Festival of the Time Lords convention in Newark, but they double booked. They were going on holiday that weekend, so they. So they said you can have these tickets. So I went to that. And what was the fourth one? It was Mcon in Nottingham which met McCoy, had a photo with McCoy in his costume. You can never meet McCoy enough times. I mean, you know, he's a, he's, he's, he's, he's good when you catch him on a good day, that's for sure. So, yeah, I've just been, you know, recently given myself and my wallet a little bit of a rest because there's been a lot of, yeah, Doctor who events happening. Oh, and I've also been. This is stuff that I can't really talk about fully yet, but I've been doing some writing projects, projects, plural, which is very exciting. Doing a few Doctor who related writing projects which are coming up. So I'm looking forward to telling you all more about that when the time comes. But yeah, obviously I'll still be writing for the podcast, of course, but yeah, we've got a couple of other things coming up which is very exciting indeed. So even though Doctor who is cancelled, it is canned, it's off the air, the spirit of the fandom is very much alive. So that is, that is absolutely fabulous. So, yeah, doing all right. Thank you, Gary. Thank you for asking.

Garry: Sounds great. Up to lots of Doctor who stuff. Very cool. Yeah, nice one, dude. Matthew, how the devil have you been?

Matt: Hello. Yeah, it's been a hot minute, isn't it? It's seems like forever since we've all gathered around the mics to have a little chat. Yeah, I feel like I've let the side down. Everyone else has been up to loads. I've done nothing really. It's been one of those times where it's just been. Obviously we had the capital and that was, well, absolutely amazing. So much to say about it and it's just, it was just a magical time. Met some lovely people, had, including yourselves, your good selves and some lovely Doctor who fans along the way. Other than that, to be honest, We. I've watched the movie. I shan't go into too much detail but yeah, I watched the 4K. I had it. It was just happenstance that I've had it sat. I've been so looking forward to it and I just, I could not find a time to get to watch it and it was bugging the hell out of me. I was just like such a frustrated man for a few days because all I wanted to do was watch this TV movie. And yeah, for one reason or another, it just didn't. Didn't come to pass until, I think about a week later actually. It was, yeah, it was like my own trial of a Time Lord really. See. See how long I could do it for. But you know, as sad as it is, I. I came up with, came out of the. The upstairs, what you might call it, closet with some Doctor who puzzles that I'd come across from the 50th anniversary. Sweet. And I've been doing those last couple nights. They're. They're not too taxing. They're a couple of 500 piece ones but there's one of all the Doctors, one of the Daleks and a nice Matt Smith sort of gloomy looking one with the silence and every. And you know, the Weeping Angels and everyone there. So, yeah, that's me. That's my scrape in the barrel of Doctor who related things that I've been up to. It's just been. The sun's been out and life has just happened, doesn't it? It's for one thing or another, it's just all swept by and. Yeah, but there's me in a nutshell.

Garry: Nice one, nice one. Yeah. And you're not alone, mate. Yeah. Since we all went to the capital Event a couple of months ago, I've done very, very little Doctor who. I've not been to any events or, or done much. I've watched a bunch of episodes and carried on with the classic re watch and stuff. But I've noticed, yeah, not been to any events or anything, so. You're not alone, mate. It's. And that is a good point actually when, when it's summertime and we've got lovely weather here in the UK and stuff like that, the last thing you want to do and you know, 30 degree heat or at least 33, like 33. It got to here a couple of days, a couple of weeks ago, the last thing you want to do is being sat in front of the TV and melting into the floor. So, yeah, totally get you, dude. But yeah, welcome guys. Thank you very much. I'm glad you are doing, glad you're doing well. And one of you has got out on plenty of adventures and so on. Yes. Let's recap quickly on the Capital Event because that was a really cool full on weekend down in Crawley a couple of months ago. It feels like forever. It's so weird. Feels like forever ago that happened and it wasn't that long ago really but we descended down to Gatwick Airport. Essentially we're around the corner from, from the airport at the Crown Plaza Hotel where we, where the, the DWAS dudes had had taken over. And yeah, it was just a solid two, two days worth of lots of Doctor who stuff. We, we were there the, the Friday night as well. I think some of you stayed the afterwards on the Sunday night as well. He went home on the Monday but we were certainly all there on the Friday night. We went out on Friday and all caught up and that was really cool just to have like a big blue box evening. And our good friend Joe was there and we met up with some other people. It was really nice. And then on the Saturday and Sunday we had a chock a block day of going to panels, photo shoots, autograph signings, shopping for merch and meeting up with people and people saying hello. And it was just a really, really cool, really cool day. I've said it a thousand times on his podcast over the years, but there is nothing like, there literally is nothing like being in an event or in a venue or something with loads of other Doctor who fans all sharing your, your love of, of Doctor who. There is literally not much like it that beats that. So it was a wonderful weekend. The DWAS organized it amazingly well. We didn't have any, we didn't have any big hiccups or any problems that I can think of in terms of that stuff. It's always difficult, I think, just to navigate around those things, especially if you're a newbie, to try and block out your day. Like, where should I go? I've got a signing here, but there's also a photo shoot going on over there and stuff like that. You just learn to, as you've done these things for years, you get your head around it and prioritize what you want to do and stuff. And they organize it really well in order to do that, which is good. And I picked up this book that I've been wanting for years. It was, it was the big finish hardback book with all of the sort of popular cover art and everything. And I had my eye on that for ages. They were selling it a really good price there. So I bagged that of course, and I think you guys picked up a few bits as well. So all in all, the capsule event was a wonderful, wonderful time and we got to see a couple of really cool fan films as well. Fan made things that had been dormant for years that were now finished. And the. One of the organizers had made a couple of wonderful trailers to set the days off. And yeah, it was just a really, really cool time. And obviously getting the opportunity to spend time with this lot is always good, this rabble. So that was great. So, yeah, guys, it was really cool, really cool weekend, I think you'll agree.

Harry: Oh yeah, absolutely. Ditto on that. Oh yeah, it was my first capital. My. Well, my first two day capital snap. Yeah. Because my first official one, I guess was the capital Cutaway, which they did last year, which was a lovely event, but this was on another scale to that, I think it's fair to say. And yeah, it was just a whole weekend of festivities really. And it was, it was a lot of fun. And they, you know. Yeah, I echo what you say, Gary, great organization from the duas, really seamless. Everyone really calm and friendly and just, you know, wonderful. Even the hotel staff at the Crown Plaza, they were, they were brilliant. They were, you know, around the whole two days and that. And yeah, great guests as well. Particularly the ones that spring to mind are Dean Hollingsworth, can't think of any more now. Robert Shimon, he was there and he was really friendly as always. Paul McGann, of course, which, I mean, I'll. Matt, I'll let you talk about your experience, meeting your favorite doctor. But yeah, just a great roster of guests and yeah, just a brilliant weekend and it does feel like a while ago, even though it wasn't really that long ago. It already feels like a warm, fuzzy, distant memory, which I can just keep going back to. So, yeah, thank you all for a great time. It was absolutely fabulous and I hope we get to do it again next year or the year after. I'm not sure if it's coming back next year, but. Because I think the guy who was organizing it, Tony is his name, he's retiring from organizing those now. So yeah, who knows when it will come back, but hopefully it does because it's absolutely joyous indeed.

Garry: Yep. And Maria, you're a, you're a veteran, aren't you? Of, of the DWAS Capital events. You love them.

Maria: A veteran. How very dare you.

Garry: You've been going to these for years. Out of all of us, you're the most experienced capital event.

Maria: It's true. I've probably gone to more of them. I've been going actually since 2019 and then there was a bit of a gap, obviously because of COVID and things like that. But yeah, I mean, for a two day event, you know, it's fantastic because there's something about kind of holding it over that weekend, you know, Saturday and Sunday, that really brings people together. You know, there were some fantastic highlights for me, you know, on. I think we had. We had some really strong guests this year as well. We had. We had the lady that played Donna's mother. Sylvia King was there and Jack Link, Jacqueline King. Sorry, I'm getting the names confused. My brain is addled. Yeah, so she was there. And we also had the lady that played Rudol, Sunday's mother as well. They had a matriarchs panel, which was brilliant. And they had, they had the monster panel as well. And you had the guys. Was it Robert Strange? Robert Strange. I might get some of his names wrong, but. But yeah, there was the monster panel. And you know, it's fascinating hearing about these actors that kind of wear these costumes for like hours on end and you know, the hardship it is really, you know, in terms of being able to go to the toilet or sweating too much, you know, and all that kind of stuff. It's really interesting to kind of, you know, listen to these people. There were some highlights, as you said, Harry, Paul McGann. I think having Tommy Knight there was brilliant as well.

Harry: I was gonna say I kicked myself for not mentioning Tommy Knight and Gary Russell.

Maria: They're both wonderful.

Harry: Sarah Jane adventures panel, which was really insightful and interesting. And they were both really lovely as well.

Maria: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Tommy Knight I don't think has been to a convention for a number of years. I know Gary's obviously a regular because he's a writer as well. But that was a fascinating panel. You know, it's not possible to go to every panel because, you know, you do. You might, you might miss other things. I mean, I have to be honest, I didn't buy a lot of merch this year. Normally I would be kind of looking at all the merch and buying stuff. I didn't buy a lot. I went to a lot of panels. We had the. I had a few photographs as well. But we had the auction as well on the Saturday night, which was. Which was a lot of fun. You know, where else would you get somebody kind of trying to outbid someone else? You know, was it £300 for the costume that Dean Holling Hollingsworth wears with the. What's the name of his character? I can't remember what it's called now,.

Harry: But he's been just a generic Android or something.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, but that was. That was fascinating, you know, watching the two in and throwing. I mean, I had little. Had a little fluff for myself as well. So, you know, it's a lot of fun. And as you said, Gary, the look back as well, because it is 50 years with the wax. So, you know, having that archive footage, which I think went back to music and. Was it 1997? I can't remember what year it was, but yeah, that was fascinating because you saw people like John Nathan Turner, you saw a really young Nicola Bryant and Colin Baker and, you know, they. They were a lot less guarded in terms of what they said at that time to how they are now. You know, they're very diplomatic now in terms of what they say. But, you know, it was very funny kind of watching some of that.

Garry: That was the documentary, wasn't it?

Maria: The documentary, yeah, that they showed.

Garry: Yeah. One of the early DWAS events. Wow.

Maria: I can't remember what year it went back to, but that was. That was really interesting, you know, kind of seeing all those young actors and obviously some of the people that have left us now. You know, I think Bob Holmes was on one of them. There was. Who else was on there as well? There was some other producers as well that are no longer around. So, you know, it's fascinating kind of hearing these people speak. And, you know, this was probably in the early days of fandom, where things were. And there was a lot of smoking, I could see as well. So, you know, that was. That was fascinating as well. So, you know, really different times. And they also showed the fan film, the devious fan film, which if anyone's been following that series of films, they've been produced over, I think it's 20, maybe 30 years, I'm not sure. But yeah. So, you know, there's a lot of variety within, you know, the de capital. You know, there's something for everyone. You know, there's panels, there's obviously,.

Garry: You.

Maria: Know, going and having Protobar taken. There's merch, so, you know, there's a mix and it's a really good crowd that goes there. I think, you know, we. We always have a lot of fun in the evening once the actual official activity to finish. So, yeah, I think. I think we probably need to say a big thank you to Tony Jordan actually, who, who's organized these for the last few years. But you're right, Harry, he did say he was going to retire this year. So I know there's the temporary coordinator that they mentioned. So, you know, hopefully we will go back to two day capital at some point. Maybe not next year, but hopefully the year after. But yeah, it was a really, really good weekend. You know, a chance for everyone to kind of let their hair down over 48 hours and just talk about Doctor who and just have a lot of fun. I mean that I'm sure the Crowne Plaza makes a bundle of money and they were a lot better organized this year, I think because there was a few years back where, you know, things maybe were not as well organized. But I know that Tony Gordon worked really hard to kind of make sure that it was very well organized. They had, you know, they had enough staff this year. They were asking people if they want anything else. You know, they were very helpful. It was, it was a themeless event really. And you know, it's sad to see Tony Dawden go but you know, well deserved the time at the him really. But I hope, you know, whoever takes it over brings back capital over two days at some point because they're really good events. I know they're actually probably going to be doing more of those one day events that Riverside and I know there's something happening at the BFI as well that's coming up soon where they're looking at the Modern series as well. I think that's been, that's in conjunction with the WAF and bfi. So, you know, I think there's a lot more to come from the Dewas team, you know, but hopefully they'll, they'll do the two day convention at some point in the future because they are just such, and they're such good value as well, you know, in terms of what you spend. You know, as long as you, as long as you, as long as you keep the budget, you'll be fine.

Garry: That's very true, actually. Yeah, as long as you set a budget, which is. Yeah. Matt will tell you keeping that budget is not always the easiest thing to do. We had that with the capital cutaway last year and with the capital event this year, didn't you, bud?

Matt: Oh, yes. When, when I see a big finished stall, I'm like a kid in a sweet shop. It's all over for me and my wallet is crying and I'm crying and. Yeah. But no, the Capitol event. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was amazing spending time with you all and meeting some really cool people. I just want to echo what Harry and Maria have said about Tony Jordan. Yeah, it was brilliant. And you could just see the labor of love that he's put into this event. Obviously, this was my first two day event. Obviously. I came to the Cutaway last year, but that's my first sort of real foray into it. And it's so bittersweet because, you know, you can see how much love and, and time he puts into these events. And it was. And he's just a lovely man as well. You get to get to talking and, and listening to what he has to say over the two days and you think, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a real shame that he's retiring now. But, um, he's. And he's definitely earned his time in the sun now. And yeah, just a massive thank you, really. But yeah, the capital event was just, it was wonderful, wasn't it? It was. There's so many highlights for me Personally, meeting Paul McGann, my favorite favorite doctor, finally in the flesh. And it's just, it was, it was one of those where you think like that. There's that old saying, you don't meet your heroes. But no, he's just, he's just lovely, absolutely such a lovely man. And it's kind of, it seems silly, but you, you go and you go and meet him and you, you, you get your autograph and you come away thinking, did I say anything? Did I, did I actually say anything to him? There's all sort of a blur. But, yeah, no, he's, he's just such a lovely man and it was a pleasure, absolute pleasure meeting him. And, yeah, a memory that I'll hold fond for a long time. As well as Paul McGann, I was incredibly excited to meet Tommy Knight from the Sarah Jane Adventures. Yeah. As anybody who has heard me rant and rant and on about the Sarah Jane Adventures on these, on these podcasts over the years, I just adore the Sarah Jenna Ventures. I think it's the best spin off. And you know, when it was on, I was sort of up in the air on whether I preferred it to Doctor who. It was, it was, yeah, it was that show for me.

Harry: So that's controversial, but I don't really think it's that controversial, to be honest. It's a good show.

Matt: It's just, yeah, it's just an amazing show and it's just, I think it also, it fitted in right at the correct time for that generation of, of kids growing up with. With the revival of Doctor who, and it's just. It holds a special place, I think, in a lot of people's hearts and. Yeah, so meeting Tommy Knight, I just. I know that he has sort of come away from acting and sort of retrained in a different area, so didn't think it was going to be something that, you know, would. Would come to pass, but he's just such a charming man. One of the highlights was the interview and the panel that they did with Tommy Knight and Gary Russell. It was returned to Bannerman Road and it was just. Yeah, it was, it was, it was brilliant. So in, like, like Harry said, it was so insightful and just a joy to listen to the fun memories that he has and Gary Russell has. Yeah, it was just lovely. Really nice and meeting him, he's such a lovely man. So, yeah, it was just. The whole. The whole weekend, it was just amazing. I could go on and on.

Maria: It was joyful. It was joyful.

Matt: Yeah, it was. It really was the chance to have a chat with some lovely, lovely people that have been part of Doctor who. And I say big finish as well. And, yeah, it was just. It's a shame if it doesn't come back for a few years because it. My wallet won't find it. A shame. But I certainly will. But I'm sure it will come back in some form or another, as much as the show probably will. But, yeah, it was just, Just amazing.

Garry: Yeah, it will do, dude. It'll be back, I'm sure. But yeah, you're right to thank Tony Jordan. It was. I think he's done it for. For donkey's years, hasn't he? Arranged these? And. Yeah, so, yeah, big thank you to Tony and the rest of the. The DWAS team. It was. It was really, really cool. Almost as cool as Paul McGann practically joining us for breakfast on. On that morning.

Matt: I forgot to say that in the.

Garry: Restaurant, I mean, he sat just the next table away and we were like, oh, my God. Oh, God, oh, God. Paul McGann's at the table next to us. Like, is he part of the group now? Is he. Is he part of the big blue box? What's going on?

Matt: So that was totally fangirled, all of us.

Maria: Yeah, Yeah, I did. I did ask him if I could borrow a chair from his table. So, you know, he. And he was very nice about it. You know, he was obviously engrossing paper or whatever he was doing. But yeah, he's. Paul McGann is such a charming Person. I don't know whether.

Garry: Here we go.

Maria: No, it's true. I met him a few years ago. He's absolutely charming. I mean, he's got charisma in bucket and I think. I think probably his whole family have, because they're a family of actors. There's just something. There's just something so unguarded about him. I suppose when he's talking, he's not. He's not one of those kind of snoopy kind of actors, is he? He's very kind of open. He's obviously embraced the role of the eight Doctor, which is fantastic. I mean, I'm. I'm really sorry that. I'm really sorry that he's on Big Finish and not on tv, if I'm honest, because I think, yeah, great that he's on Big Finish, but I'd much rather see him on tv. I mean, he's magnetic on tv, really. Honestly. Am I fangirl or am I a fan girl?

Garry: Yeah, a little bit. Little bit, A little bit.

Harry: I mean, I echo all those thoughts, Maria. He's a very charismatic fella. Yeah, he's. He's a cool guy. Top guy. Paul McGann.

Matt: Yeah.

Garry: We love you, Paul.

Matt: You do feel like part of. Part of the crew when you're in his presence, don't you? He's no heirs and graces. It's sort of just, you know, you're meeting a mate that you've. You've never met before, but you feel like you're meeting a mate.

Harry: I do also want to shout out that Katie Manning was there and as ever, she was absolutely wonderful with every single guest. Really took the time to speak to everyone and give everyone their moment. So, yeah, shout out, Katie.

Garry: We know you listen, of course, as does Paul. Thank you very much.

Matt: Such a bizarre thing. But. But just after sitting next to Paul McGann for breakfast, I went up to get my breakfast and had a charming conversation with Dan Starkey about bacon and sausages for about two or three minutes. It's just the bizarre thing that would happen at one of these conventions.

Harry: And if that doesn't sell the capital, I don't know what does.

Garry: A convoy with Dan Starkey about bacon and sausage, eh? That's the selling point for the capital. Yeah, Absolutely delicious. Shall I now go and fetch the grenades?

Matt: It's much tastier than the grenades.

Harry: Wow, you pulled that one out of the bag. That was really good.

Maria: That was really good.

Garry: The bacon is absolutely delicious, Doctor, but shall I fetch the grenades? Oh, Dan Starkey, brilliant.

Maria: He's Tiny. He was sitting at the table next to Christopher Ryan and they're both kind of quite tiny. Oh, God bless them.

Garry: Sorry, Dan, Maria's got a problem with, with your, with your height and you being small. So about that.

Maria: No, when he, when he's on tv, obviously I don't know whether the tv, the way they film it, he does, you don't get a sense of that. You know, even though he's wearing the costume, he, he. You don't, you don't get a sense of how tiny he really is. I mean, one of the most interesting things actually, when they did the monster panel and they were saying, and they were saying about obviously fitting into costumes and stuff, I think you have to be a particular shape and size to get into certain costumes. I mean, unless you're going to play the. Was it the absorbal of. Is it the absorbenov? Unless you're going to play something like that where I suppose size doesn't really Matter. You probably do need to be quite tiny to get into some of them and quite tall maybe for a Simon costume. So, you know, there's no hope for me getting into a costume. But you know, if you're the right. I mean, somebody like Jordan could probably play a really good Cyberman actually. Anyway.

Garry: Yep, Dan, we know you. Listen, Mr. Starkey, thank you very much for, for keeping Matt company at the, at the breakfast bar.

Matt: Yeah, thanks, mate.

Garry: Yes, thank you very much. Right, that was the capital. As you can tell, we feel like it was a good event. So. Yeah, fingers crossed it comes back. Anyway, that's what we've been up to. Let's spend the rest of the EP talking about the, the, the bombshell news that dropped that we never saw coming about, about Doctor who. So for, I would say the last try not to overestimate this, but I would probably say that over the last year and a bit, maybe longer, every, every round table that we've recorded that we get onto this subject, we usually say the same thing, which is, what do you guys think? Should the show go on hiatus? Should it be canceled? Should it not be, should it just carry on? What's the crack? And you know, mercifully the beep put us out of our misery a little while ago. So I think this was at the beginning of June, roughly this time last month. We had the, the news drop that. Well, it was like a two pronged bombshell first prong, thus the Christmas special, canned Billy Piper, you're out of there. You thought you were going to be the Doctor for an Episode, at least I don't think so. You're not coming back, love. So, Christmas special, canned prong number two. Thus Russell's had enough, Bad Wolf's had enough, everyone's had enough. So they've just pulled the pin on the bloody lot. The rug's been pulled, the metaphorical rug has been pulled from underneath fandom's feet, as it were. And it gets better. Oh, it gets better. Yeah, yeah. So you know that script that Russell said was he was cooking for the Christmas special that was meant to be amazing? Turns out that was a lie. And so anyway, the statement that the BBC put out says, just to recap everyone, in case you, case you forgot, and I'll whiz through it. Doctor who remains an important part of the BBC. And this tender underpins the BBC's continued commitment to Doctor who, ensuring audiences will enjoy the show for years to come. This decision to cancel was not taken lightly and we know it will be disappointing for fans. But in order to set the show up for future series, it was decided that rather than bridge the gap with a one off special, we are choosing to push forward to invest in the long term future of the show, which ensures that the TARDIS lands once more. When it lands once more, it does so in all its glory. So when they say the tender, because Bad Wolf have pulled out and there's no streaming partner in place, the only thing that BBC studios have is the facility to hire writers, directors, showrunners, etc. They can't actually make the show with anything, so it needs to go out to somebody to get funding, co producing stuff and all that, get it done. So it's currently out for Tender. Now, who knows how long that will take? It could be. Who knows in the world of Doctor who, any other TV show, you could probably put a safe bet on the fact it'll probably be somewhere between six months and a year before you get any kind of announcement. But with Doctor who, who bloody knows? It could be next week that they announced that it's, you know, they found a partner, it's back and blah, blah, blah, it could be five years, I have no idea. And then Russell put out a statement that says, we only cooked up the script to guarantee a future when no one knew what would be happening. But now, now that we do know, there's no need for it anyway, you'll have to wait a bit longer for new Doctor who, but you'll be waiting for more Doctor who than a spin off, so it's worth it. So I think what Russell's saying is they said that they put the script together in order to, like, ring fence some funding for a Christmas special, I guess, and to ring fence some production time to make the show. But now he's saying that there's a bit of a red herring because they never actually wrote a script. They just said they did so that, you know, all the higher ups would be like, oh, yeah, there's a script, we better make it. So there's a little bit of. A little bit of dodgy sales, dodgy car salesman stuff going on, some. Some dodgy deals trying to be made, which didn't come to fruition, obviously, but that's the deal. That's where we are. I've said for ages that I think this is a good thing for Doctor who. My opinion has always been, well, certainly since sort of partway through Jodie's era and beyond, when everyone's. Anyone's asked me or it's come up in conversation, what do you reckon? Carry on as we are or give it a rest for a bit? I've always said I think we should rest the show for at least a few years. Clean house, get rid of everybody and then just get some fresh new perspective on it, get some new writers and showrunner, etc. But I know that my opinion is not shared across the team. Jordan's not here. I know that Jordan was pretty gutted by this news. He was one of us. That was not that happy about it. He was. Yeah, not that happy. Not happy. Bunny, about this one. But to you guys, what do you think, Harry? What's. What say the. I know that we've spoken about it on and off, but now that it's all confirmed and it's all. It's all out there, what do you reckon?

Harry: Well, it's, it's. It's a turning point, that's for sure. I think that honestly, like, the longer the better. Well, within reason. I don't want it to be off the air for, like, 10 years, but a few years off the air, that's great. You know, it was feeling like a really tired show, I think, because even with every new regeneration, it still kind of felt a bit samey these last few iterations. So, yeah, I think this is probably the best thing that could have happened for the show. I'm not particularly happy with the way that they went around the Christmas special and I'm not, you know, I don't want to name any specific individuals here because we don't really know the ins and outs. But, like, the fact that we were lied to about a script that stinks. And, you know, they talk a lot about, like, you know, brand image and, like, you know, maintaining the Doctor who brand and stuff. I mean, that's pretty bad for the brand, I got to be honest. So they've got to really pull out the hat when, you know, a production company signs up and then they bring the show back in order to win favor again. Because, yeah, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think they just need to give us a little bit more credit and a bit more respect, quite frankly, because, you know, without the audience, I'm not even talking about the fans here, like, us lot who, you know, live. In brief, Doctor who, like, without anyone who. Who bothers to, you know, just casually watch it, you wouldn't have a program that's as successful as it is, and you wouldn't have a merchandise empire that's successful as it is. So, you know, there definitely needs to be more respect for the audience, I think. And regarding Russell and Bad Wolf leaving, you know, I'll. I'll be very diplomatic and say, like, I'm very thankful for what Russell's done over the years. I think without him bringing the show back, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you guys now, and I probably wouldn't have the passion in my life that is Doctor who and all the wonderful things that come with it. But, yeah, I think it's about time they moved on.

Garry: So you're. Yeah. So you're. You're not. It's fair to say that you're not sort of happy. Happy is the right word. That the show is gone for a bit, but you're.

Harry: I think the circumstances are a bit upsetting, to be honest. But the actual show being off the air for a bit, I think that's a good thing. I mean, for me personally, there's still plenty of classic who that I've not yet seen and loads of Doctor who books that I have which I need to get through. So I'm not sure for new Dr. Who personally. And, yeah, you know, there's always, like, new Doctor who to consume. So I, you know, I don't think. I mean, it's not as bad as when it was just when it just petered out in the 1980s, I think. I don't. A lot of us are kind of. I mean, I sort of said at first, oh, this is like, you know, the wilderness years again. But on reflection, after kind of letting it sit for a bit, I'm thinking actually it's kind of not as bad as that. I mean, the fact is, the BBC want to make a load of money out of it, so they're sure as hell going to bring it back in some way or another. So, you know, one day we shall come back, basically. We can rest easy knowing that's going to happen.

Garry: Yes. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. And one, One point I just want to make very, very quickly is that Doctor who has not been cancelled. I think that's an important thing. I've seen that a lot over all of social media. The, the, the Christmas special episode has been canceled. That is no longer happening. But Dr. Who was a show and everything that's not been cancelled. So I think if you've seen the social media posts where it's a very clickbaity titles about Doctor who's been cancelled, the show's been canned, all the rest of it don't buy into that. The show is still very much alive. It's just having a nap for now, but it's certainly not. Not dead. So.

Harry: And don't listen to me when I say it's been canned because I was just being facetious when I said that earlier on.

Garry: It's unlike you, mate. Right, Maria. I know Maria's got thoughts. To be honest with you, Maria, you were the first person that came into my head when I first read the, the announcement that Russell was leaving. You were the first person that I thought, I bet Maria's bloody loving this. So what are your thoughts?

Maria: Yeah, I'm not sorry to see him go. I, I think. Do you know what I think. I think he, he knew something was up. Even though the fact that we've actually only been told in June that there wasn't a Christmas special. If you remember, there was, there was something that he did for Newsround and he said something along the lines of, oh, well, there'll be a new generation that will grow up and like for it. And. And I just thought to myself at that time, I thought that was a really weird thing to say. So I think, I don't think there was any guarantees about the Christmas special. I think, I think like you said, there was a lot of. There was a lot of information going around that, you know, they'd announced the Christmas special. And I don't necessarily believe Russell when he said there wasn't a threat because I know there was some information that he put in Doctor who magazine about what might be in it and he kind of gave clues, so I don't know what was going on there. There's A little bit of subterfuge going on and I think as Harry says, that leaves a bit of the just taste in the mouth really for fans and, and you know, the Instagram post that he put out as well after the cancellation, sorry, the Christmas Beckett translation, you know, and it was kind of, it was very snarky, you know, along the signs of. There was no script, I never wrote it and no actor would ever approach to play the next doctor. You may disagree. Fine. Sit in that chair and wait for proof. Like you'll be waking up a long time or a long time was the way he put it. And I just think that's, that's not really very respectful to us. What have we ever done as fans except love the show, we want to love the show. We don't, we don't want to see the show going down the pan. We don't want a bad script. We don't want to be, you know, what came out over the last couple of years. You know, we love the show, we're fans of the show and you know, it just wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't up to the job really. And I'm, and I'm glad that Christmas special didn't come out because he'd written himself into a corner with Billy Piper in the role. So I, I am glad that Christmas special isn't coming out. I mean, what's interesting is the wording that the BBQ news or what they don't say really, you know, they say rather than bridge the gap with a one off special, we're choosing to push forward to invest in the long term future. So I think, I think the relationship with Bad Wolf and Russell P. Davis wasn't necessarily, it was like a bad divorce. That's what, that's the way I kind of see it. You know, there's obviously some disagreement behind the scene in terms of, you know, what, what he had planned maybe for the custom special. I'm glad it's not going forward. I think it's good to just draw a line under, you know, what, whatever the, the ending of that was, you know, with Billy Piper, just draw a line under it, let a new team kind of come in and hopefully pick it up. I, I mean it's good that the BBC want to put the show out to tender. I think I'd be interested to see what, you know, who would want to pick it up at this point. I think as Sarah said, I think it's had so much bad publicity recently that it needs, it needs a Break. And I think three to five years, you know, if it comes back in that time, I think, you know, with a new direction, it's really good. You know, we can just draw a line under this whole era. Yeah, I think, I think it took you the decision that we didn't have that Christmas special because I don't know what would have come out of it in terms of, you know, supporting what somebody would be doing going forward. So, yeah, I'm glad Bad Wolf have gone. Yeah, for sure. And Russell T. For sure.

Garry: Yeah, I knew.

Maria: I don't, you know, I don't disrespect what Russell TJ this year did in the first. The first time that he brought it back because it was all new, you know, and it was very successful. So I, I'll give him his respect for that. But coming back again a second time, they always say you shouldn't revisit the past, you know, and he. He didn't. He didn't let other people kind of guide him. I think this time where he probably had that more when he came back the first time, you know, because it. He. It. They needed to make it fair. I think, I think it went to his head. I think it went to his head this time, you know, having. Having those two series to write for. So, yeah, I think it was time that he left. And, you know, I'm glad. I'm glad we haven't got that cooking special. Let's see what. Let's see what the future brings. Yeah, let's see.

Garry: Yeah. No, I read you, and I didn't mean that you would be like, you know, popping a bottle of champagne and, and having a disco, because I understand what you're saying. It's. You're. Yeah. You're just. You're just glad that the show's finally able to move in a different direction. And it will. Wasn't able to do that while Russell was still there and, And Bad Wolf and stuff. So. I read you. I read you. Matt, what are you. What are you saying on this? Mr. Mr. Matt.

Matt: Yeah. Do you know what? When the news broke, I, I said kind of immediately, I, I felt like. And it sounds really overdramatic, but this is just how I felt that, like a. And it wasn't canceled, but it felt like it at the time. It was like a friend had, like, passed, you know, like a, like an old friend that someone has just been with you constantly. And it's just sort of. Or a relationship that sort of turned a bit sour. And that's especially what I got with reading Russell's Instagram post, it felt like, like Maria said, it kind of felt like a lover's spat just screams of what it doesn't say. So, yeah, I think I was over everything, just disappointed in the way that it was all handled. I think, you know, I think the show could do with the rest for a bit. I don't think it should be that long. I think it needs a complete overhaul, but I don't think it needs a complete rest. Not, you know, the time it took in the wilderness years. I don't think it needs that, but I think it needs a complete overhaul from the inside and out. Fresh everything really, and give it a, you know, you've, you've got this most, one of the most important IPS to BBC that they have that was giving, has given them so much money over the years there. It's not going to go anywhere. It's just, it needs to come back and they need to try and put the right people in, into it. But I think really with the news, I think I was just, yeah, really kind of a bit angry and disappointed how they treated us, really with it. And like Harry and Maria had said, especially how it kind of pointed the finger at fans in general, where that's just a very small minority of fans that are very loud that really aren't fans and just, they're just rage bait people that do it for the love of it. And Russell should be rising above all of this, but no, instead you're grouping us in with the people that you shouldn't be talking to at all. And it kind of just makes you think like we, we're just, we're just not part of it anymore. It doesn't feel like. It doesn't feel like Doctor who. So, yeah, I just felt very disappointed and just let down, especially with the whole. It's been a, it was never a script. It was, it was just. And it was just something that we could tell you at the time to keep you happy. It's like we're not babies. It's for goodness sake, you know, tell us how it is or don't tell us anything at all, but don't feed us a lie. It just seems silly and it just seems like a slap in the face, really. So sure. Yeah, I just think the way it was handled was just stupid really and just leaves a really bitter taste in your mouth. But I'm not sorry, I'm not sorry that it's, it's, you know, on a break. I think it could do great things. For the show. I think the extended media could have a really good run at resurgence of popularity from books to big finish. I bang on and on about big finish and how much it's, you know, it's brilliant and brings out sides of the show that you know you want and don't get with the show. So if that helps bring them, bring the popularity of them even more through these years, then I'm all for it. And I'm just. I don't want to see Doctor who before it's ready, if you know what I mean.

Garry: Yep.

Matt: There's no point rushing something. But just don't lie to us, really. Just what's the point in that? It just makes, it makes you look silly and makes us feel, you know, disheartened with the whole thing.

Garry: Really makes us feel used and betrayed and.

Matt: Yeah.

Garry: Sad and dismayed. Yeah. Matt, you're so funny. You're like. It's like when you, when you, when you did something really naughty, if anyone did anything really naughty when they were little. And your parents. Well, my parents certainly. Well, my mom, at least she had this mode where she was. She would shout if you know something, if I did something naughty, but if I'd done something really bad, just silence. And that was worse. And it was like what you were saying, it's like, we're not angry, we're not mad, we're just disappointed. And that as a, that as a child, hearing your parents, you know, go like that was like, way worse than like feeling like you were being shouted out for being in trouble. So, yeah, I absolutely get what you, what you're saying. We're not like, I mean, don't get me wrong, there has been loads of the usual sort of keyboard warriors out on socials who are. And you normally get two types of them. You normally get the, the knee jerk reactors who, you know, like, oh, this is outrageous, you know, blah, blah. And they'll spend, you know, it's got too much time on their hands, like, you know, eight hours worth of tweets and all the rest of it. And then you got the other type who was like, oh, yeah, well, yeah, I'd cup of tea around Russell House. Russell's house. A couple of months ago he told me this is exactly going to happen. And I told you all this is going to happen. No one listened to, to me. But now it's happened and now you're reacting this way. But why didn't you react this way when I told you about it? Because you didn't believe me. You know, you have all those sorts of people. So those sorts of. Those two groups of people. Then you find it with, with. With some YouTubers and some other podcasters who are like, yeah, so what's going to go down is like this, right, According to our source. Yeah, now, yeah, the classic brilliant one in it with some. Some podcasters, it's like, yeah, according to our source, this is what's going to happen. And then inevitably the opposite happens. And then the next episode is like, well, yeah, of course, we couldn't guarantee that was going to be the case. You know, it's. It was only a, you know, only a conversation. So listener, steer clear of all that nonsense. All of those echo chamber stuff, all of the, all of the people who are, you know, going nuts about it and Keyboard warrior, all that. Just, just.

Maria: Do you just, you know, Bad Wolf were actually doing a Christmas special. It wasn't a Doctor who were.

Garry: That was so funny, wasn't it? We're currently like, you know, heads down, doing a Christmas special and everyone's like, what? How could you? But it's been canceled. Well, it's not all about Doctor who, you lot, you know, we have got like, Doctor who. Yeah. They're probably thinking we do have, like a life outside of Doctor who, you know, it's not all about you, but, ah, so funny.

Maria: But I'm just wondering what they're going to do with that big TARDIS set now, because they're a bit bad.

Garry: Smash it up.

Matt: Well, check your local tip donation sites.

Garry: I can't.

Harry: Take a few trips.

Maria: Yeah, I can't remember.

Matt: You'd have to hire a pretty big van.

Maria: I'm sure it was. Sorry, sorry. No, it's okay. I'm sure it was Jane Tranter that said that they're hopeful that Doctor who comes back to Cardiff again. So, you know, whether. Bit. Whether BBC Studios will kind of tender for it will be interesting. I mean, maybe they'll kick that set. You never know, they might keep that set for the future.

Garry: Bad Wolf's in Cardiff, isn't it? Bad Wolf Studios. They're in Cardiff.

Maria: Sorry, BBC Studios. BBC Studios.

Garry: Oh, BBC.

Maria: Right. Yeah. So, I mean, the thing is, they've got studio space, haven't they? Bad Wolf. So whoever. If, say a new production company took it up, they could always hire from the Bad Wolf Studios, I suppose. But I, I don't. I don't necessarily want it filmed in Wales again. And that's not being. That's not being racist against the Welsh. It's just. I'd love to see A different look for Doctor who. And I think. I think was done well, death by now. We must. We must know every landmark now in Wales.

Garry: Maria.

Maria: Complete silence. Oh, everyone. I'm going to get lynched, aren't I? I'm going to get in so much trouble.

Garry: The. The. The half Welshman in me is absolutely doing cartwheels right now.

Maria: Oh, it's a good thing there's a screen between us, isn't there, Gary?

Matt: Cardiff Bay. Isn't Cardiff Bay without Doctor who, let's be honest.

Garry: Well, it is now because they got rid of the bloody Doctor who experience, didn't they? It's very much not Doctor who now. Yeah, you're right. Let's move it to Manchester or something.

Maria: Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to kind of see some other areas, though, you know, other. Could they. You know, I think one of the joys of Classic was they, you know, they went to different places in the uk. So you've got a different. You've got a different look. I'm not saying that Wales couldn't be used again, but, you know, I think. I think it's been overdone in new theory because it's only, you know, it's only been. Because I don't think they have gone out of Wales, have they? When they filmed any of.

Garry: Yes. All of Jody's stuff was up in Sheffield. Yorkshire.

Maria: Oh, sorry. Yeah, Jody. Okay, sorry, I beg your pardon. That was. Yeah, that was. And they went to South Africa, so. Yeah, okay. No, but I mean, for RTD era, I don't think it's been filmed anywhere else, is it? It's all been.

Garry: Rightly so.

Maria: Yeah, rightly so. Them fighting words.

Matt: I think, on a. On a brief change of subject, I'd like to just point out that if Doctor who does. When it does come back. Not if it does. When it does, I hope that they bring back Unleashed as well. And Stefan Powell, I think he was absolutely brilliant in Unleashed, and it's a real shame that they sort of have to suffer the. The same fate.

Garry: Well, they won't do if they don't do it in Wales.

Matt: No, exactly.

Garry: So Maria's like, well, yeah, what of it?

Maria: I don't care.

Harry: Expecting Stefan to get on the bus to Manchester so that he can film a new series of Doctors.

Maria: Yeah, yeah. He could do the uk. No, do you know what? I want them to spend the money on. I want them to actually spend it and go on location more, because I think. I think we need to see more vistas than uk. I'D love to see them kind of go abroad again and film abroad, because they haven't done that in a long time, aside from Jody's new app. But. But, yeah, I'd like. I'd love to see Doctor who travel. Why can't it go to the us? Why can't it go to Australia?

Garry: Because it's a British bloody show. No, but it stays in the uk. That's stays in England on Wales. Definitely not Scotland.

Maria: The TARDIS can land anywhere, Gary. That's what I'm saying.

Garry: That was a joke. That was a joke. I love Scotland. I love Scotland. If it. If the TARDIS had a home, if the new Doctor that came back in a few years and they moved from Cardiff to, I don't know, Edinburgh or something, I would love that. That was a joke. I'd love it if it was in Scotland or something.

Harry: You.

Matt: Yeah, you could change the beautiful scenery of Wales to the utterly gorgeous scenery of all of Scotland as well. And it's just. Yeah, you would. You would. You would be just as well suited in Scotland as you would in Wales.

Garry: Yeah. Definitely not down in the southwest. Definitely not down there. Not with Matt and his tractors knocking around.

Matt: We've got plenty of tractors and cows. You know, we could make a cow alien.

Garry: Sure. I saw a bloody TARDIS down there. Yeah, it was.

Matt: What's that blue box over there?

Garry: What's that join? Passing my track record.

Matt: Don't worry, I'll be there directly,.

Garry: My love. Look at this bloody blue box here, my love.

Matt: You can do a worse or gummage Doctor who spin off or a crossover in Devon, couldn't you? Oh, amazing.

Maria: Where did they film the smugglers? Did they film that down in Cornwall? I'm just thinking.

Garry: I think it was Cornwall. Yeah.

Matt: And same as the Curse of the Black Spot. That was also in Cornwall.

Garry: Amazing.

Harry: Episode two, claims to fame for you there, Matt. Look at that.

Matt: Well, Cornwall. I'm a Devon boy, but yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Close, close.

Harry: Sorry. That's me not knowing my geography about the. The south, the uk. Midland boy through and through.

Garry: Yeah. Puts his jam on after the cream, not the other way around.

Harry: I just.

Matt: Southwest as a whole.

Garry: Yeah, the old scones. Scones. Scones, whatever. Scones, of course. Yep, of course. Of course.

Harry: Oh, let's not open that can of worms.

Matt: Where's it gone? It's gone.

Maria: I'm just being controversial.

Garry: It's gone. Brilliant. Right, that is gonna do. I think talking about scones, we've obviously gone far afield from Doctor who's. I think that's a great place to, to stick a pin in this episode for the the old July Roundtable. Maria, it's been great to have you back on the show and to give us your thoughts on everything. It's great to see you as always.

Maria: Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Garry: Matt, great to have you back on as always, mate, always a laugh.

Matt: It's been lovely to be. I don't know where this podcast went towards the end, but it's been lovely as always and great to see and.

Garry: Talk to you guys, indeed, Harry, and to you as always.

Harry: What's my chocolate at?

Garry: He's having a good old laugh.

Harry: Yes, thank you, Gary. It's been, it's been a real hoot. Lovely to spend time with you all again. Thank you so much.

Garry: Indeed. Right, let's do it there. Let's roll the out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming back and listening to another episode of the Big Blue Box podcast. That was the July Roundtable with Maria, Harry and Matt. It was great to have you back, listener. Thank you for coming back after our small little two month hiatus. See, it's not that bad. Hey, something goes away just for a little. It's not that bad. We're back doing all the stuff, all the waffle and all the news and, and all that stuff. The cancellation and the hiatus. I think now the dust has settled a bit on that. We're kind of cool with it. You know, it's not, the show's not dead, it's not cancelled, it's just going through a bit of a, a bit of a thing, you know, a bit of a domestic, bit of a ruck with the, with the better half. But it'll be back, it'll be cool, no worries. And, and we'll be talking about all that stuff. We'll be back next month for the August Roundtable to talk about whatever's happening in the world of Doctor who. These guys have probably been to about six or seven events between them in that time, so they'll give you the lowdown on all that stuff, I'm sure. In the meantime, make sure that you are following or subscribing in your preferred podcast app of choice so you get notifications when new episodes do land. And you can also chat to us on the socials. We're on X Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram, I believe. Come give us a like and a follow there and chat all things Doctor who in between stuff. And we have a very cool free Discord server which is a live shut down. Did not get shut down. Come on over there, chat with lots of cool Doctor who fans about all the things Doctor who, as always, chat about big finish, collections, events, all that stuff. So come and get involved over there. Until next time. My name's Gary.

Matt: My name's Matt.

Maria: My name's Maria.

Harry: My name's Harry.

Garry: And remember,.

Maria: Sa.